Author Topic: Curious about people's mixing times  (Read 2107 times)

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Offline kdefay

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Curious about people's mixing times
« on: September 05, 2012, 02:22:23 AM »
In April of this year we bought a 30L spiral mixer for our small shop.  Without any previous experience using a mixer for dough, I read a little and experimented until I came to something that worked for me.  I mix on low for about 2 minutes, stop, change to high, add the oil to the dough and mix for about another 6 minutes.  I'm just wondering about your feelings regarding speed and time.  I see some people only mix on low and others promote a short mixing time. 

Kirk

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Offline scott r

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 10:21:13 AM »
Spiral mixers develop the gluten very fast.  That seems a little on the long side for a typical hydration from what I have found, but if your dough is really wet that is in the ballpark.   Try a batch where you pull some out of the mixer early, and compare the end product.  

Good luck!    
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 09:16:00 AM by scott r »

Offline kdefay

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 12:05:32 PM »
Hydration is 62%.  It would be easy for me to pull some out early as a test to see what works best.  I have no attachment to what we are doing now, but we are pretty satisfied with the results.  Just wondering if I can get a better product by mixing it for a shorter time.  I do a 2-day cold ferment before using the dough.
The USA, Myanmar, and Liberia are the three remaining countries in the world who do not use the metric system.  That's some fine company to keep!!

Buy a scale, think in grams, and welcome to the 21st century!!

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 03:07:40 PM »
Hydration is 62%.  It would be easy for me to pull some out early as a test to see what works best.  I have no attachment to what we are doing now, but we are pretty satisfied with the results.  Just wondering if I can get a better product by mixing it for a shorter time.  I do a 2-day cold ferment before using the dough.
What kind/temp oven. what style of pizza... ???
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Offline kdefay

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 10:13:27 PM »
What kind/temp oven. what style of pizza... ???

It's a NY Style pizza baked in a gas deck oven at about 700F.
The USA, Myanmar, and Liberia are the three remaining countries in the world who do not use the metric system.  That's some fine company to keep!!

Buy a scale, think in grams, and welcome to the 21st century!!

Offline La Sera

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 02:04:17 AM »
I have a similar mixer/spiral hook and use stone bottom gas ovens (with top and bottom gas elements) at about 325 C also. I have a 57% hydration and cold ferment with a freezer to refrigerator (in reefer 12-18 hour ferment) cycle.

For my mixer, Low is 110 RPM, Medium is 200 RPM and Hi is 420 RPM. I think that is important to add to the discussion.

I mix on "low" (110 RPM) for my entire mix. I do not change speeds.

I start with (slightly chilled) water, sugar and salt in the bowl, then add about 70% of my flour. I add IDY then add another 20% of my flour and start mixing. I add the remaining flour after a minute as the dough mixture begins to collect. After a ball begins to form (about 2 minutes), I add 1/3 of my oil to the bowl side, and add the other 2/3rds in two more steps about a minute each later.

I adjust the height of the bowl (usually downward) to get the best mix as the texture of the dough changes. I adjust that height as I watch the dough to ensure the complete mixture is being folded properly.

I mix on Low for about 6 minutes after the complete ball is formed, but I measure the temperature to be sure. I use a finish temperature of 29C for my dough. It's a relatively fast mix. I think spiral attachments are more efficient than old fashioned dough hooks.

The mixture feels a little moist, but is not wet or difficult to handle. We measure and form quickly, brush on vegetable oil on the ball and drop it into a small plastic bag. We squeeze out the air, twist the bag closed and put the closure under the dough ball and put it into the freezer, all very quickly. I get no freezer burn or frozen moisture in the bag. We only keep it in the freezer for a maximum of a week.

We open the bags to give some room for expansion as we transfer to the refrigerator, but still tuck the opening under the ball. We use them cold from the refrigerator and do not bring them to room temperature. They are the most flavorful on the second day, but still useable after one day and on the third day. We don't use any after that.

My recipe ends up as a mix between a neapolitan and NY type. It has leoparding and a lot of air holes around the edge, but is slightly firmer in the center so it can support more toppings than just fresh mozzarella. We're a takeout/delivery business.

We cook directly on the stone. Bottom heat is 200 C and top heat is off to start. After 3 minutes, we turn on top heat and total time is about 5-6 minutes, depending on toppings. Margheritas go in with just sauce, then fresh Mozzarella added after the 3 minutes and flash cooked for the last 2 minutes.

I don't know if that will help you, but it explains how we do ours.

Offline scott r

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 09:19:51 AM »
Hydration is 62%.  It would be easy for me to pull some out early as a test to see what works best.  I have no attachment to what we are doing now, but we are pretty satisfied with the results.  Just wondering if I can get a better product by mixing it for a shorter time.  I do a 2-day cold ferment before using the dough.

Thats the idea... just pull some out at 2.5 min, 4 min, 6 min and 8 min to see what happens.       I know of a famous pizzeria with a spiral mixer and a wet dough is in the mixer for only 2.5 -3 minutes.   Half of the mix on low, half on high.    Good luck!

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 10:06:40 AM »
Kirk, Would you please post a pic of one of your pie's...
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Offline kdefay

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 11:03:18 AM »
I need better photography of my pizzas.  I'm just usually too busy to stop what I'm doing to set up a pretty photo.  I'll try to take some better images in the next few days and post them.

2.5-3 minutes sure seems like a short mixing time, but I'm open to experimenting.  I want to stress that we are quite happy with our dough and our customers love our pizza, but I'm always interested in improving wherever possible. 

I'll do a test just as you described and let the balls go through the normal 2-day cold ferment and see what they are like.  I'll report back next week as I won't be able to bake any of them until Tuesday evening.  I don't have time for testing like this on weekends. 
The USA, Myanmar, and Liberia are the three remaining countries in the world who do not use the metric system.  That's some fine company to keep!!

Buy a scale, think in grams, and welcome to the 21st century!!

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 11:19:30 AM »
.  I want to stress that we are quite happy with our dough and our customers love our pizza, but I'm always interested in improving wherever possible. 

 
If you like it...I love it!   ::)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline Giggliato

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 08:08:33 PM »
That pizza does look good but it doesn't look like NY style, I could be wrong though, having never been to NY.

I'm fairly certain that an initial slow mix is the way to go, followed by a faster mix if you do not plan to bulk ferment, do you bulk ferment your dough? Or do you cut and ball after the fast mix?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 08:10:20 PM by Giggliato »

Offline kdefay

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Re: Curious about people's mixing times
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2012, 12:12:26 AM »
That pizza does look good but it doesn't look like NY style, I could be wrong though, having never been to NY.

I'm fairly certain that an initial slow mix is the way to go, followed by a faster mix if you do not plan to bulk ferment, do you bulk ferment your dough? Or do you cut and ball after the fast mix?

Consistency is always a challenge.  The crust got a bit big on that one.  I don't bulk ferment.  After mixing, I ball the dough and place in proofing boxes for a 2-day cold ferment.
The USA, Myanmar, and Liberia are the three remaining countries in the world who do not use the metric system.  That's some fine company to keep!!

Buy a scale, think in grams, and welcome to the 21st century!!


 

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