New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand

[scott123]

Looking at my watch, I think it's around tooth hurty  

Peter, you wanted an example of toothy? Voila.

And, again, just to reiterate, I'm not passing judgement. All of these pies look great.

[BrickStoneOven]

I'm in the North Shore, if I can get Caputo at a similar price of RD, I would prefer Caputo.  I'm going to follow your advice next time with lower hydration for RD.  Thanks for the info.

Like Scott said you should definitely go to Accardi in Medford. They have a lot of other things as well. Last I remember it was $31.

[Mangia Pizza]

Looking at my watch, I think it's around tooth hurty  

Peter, you wanted an example of toothy? Voila.

And, again, just to reiterate, I'm not passing judgement. All of these pies look great.

HINT:             They maybe dentate................ but they are definetely Caputo...... gotcha........

[Mangia Pizza]

Like Scott said you should definitely go to Accardi in Medford. They have a lot of other things as well. Last I remember it was $31.

Thanks, I will contact them tomorrow.....

[scott123]

HINT:             They maybe dentate................ but they are definetely Caputo...... gotcha........

It looks like Chau's re-balling advice counteracted the toothiness on the RD. I would have liked to have seen an unballed RD next to a Caputo, though 

[Mangia Pizza]

Paolo,

Can you clarify the fermentation protocol you followed, including the time of the dough in bulk and the time in the ball stage?

And can you comment on what you thought of the pizzas and the two flours, and whether you found reballing the RD dough balls to be helpful?

Peter

Peter here are my observations......

First of all......yes, it wasn't a perfect experiment as soon as I reballed all the RD as per Jackies suggestion.  Now, don't get me wrong, I am glad I followed his advise because otherwise the RD would have created a miserable mess of a pizza, (way too spread out......)

Second of all..... I am a newby at this pizza making thing.... it is my new hobby, not my profession, so although it may not be the perfect experiment, I never stated I was competing for the "Pizza making experiment Nobel Price".  Take it for what it is, have fun with it and don't get bent out of shape..... (and you know who I am specifically referring to.....)

Fermentation/baking protocol:

25 hrs total bulk at 65F
Balled at 65F for 7 hrs then
Refridgerated balls for 5 hrs
Brought them back at 65F for 3 hrs
Reballed the RD
Let everything settle at 65F for another 4hrs before baking
Alternated doughs in the baking process, while let the dough stand outside on deck (in dough trays) at about 55F

Results:

None of the guests could tell the difference in taste, they were all equally devoured.......

My observations:

The RD was harder to stretch, had to handle it like the pizzaioli in Naples to get it to stretch (not necessarely a bad thing), the Caputo was easier to stretch because softer and airier.....

The cornicione on the RD didn't look to me as developed as the Caputo, but it probably was because of the reballing technique (should be gentler next time)

Leopardization was similar, with slightly more on the Caputo

Taste, I could not tell the difference myself......

Would I reball the RD again?  Yes, I probably would be a bit more gentle in the process and give it more time between the second reballing to baking.

I also think, as already noted, that the RD would probably benefit from less hydration

My humble conclusions:

1) I need more practice with the RD

2) If I only had the RD to work with, I would still be a happy man

3) On a blind taste, only very few exclusive palates (I wouldn't be one of them) could probably tell the difference between the RD and Caputo

4) Is there a justification for a $50 premium per 55lbs bag for the Caputo?  NO

5) At similar prices I would prefer the Caputo, but it is probably because I have had more time to work with it over the past 3 months

6) More experiments are necessary, but I think from the criticism of some, I need to keep my future experiments results private for my mentors....

That is all folks..... I did learn from many of you and for the harsh criticism.......I totally ignored it.......

Thank you all for your inputs, till next time......

Ohhhhhhhh..... I almost forgot.......


Pizzas labeled 1 were RD dough, 2 were Caputo dough......

[Mangia Pizza]

the dough with the higher W will perform better. do you have the technical data for this other flour?

Finally found the info. requested:

http://www.molinoiaquone.com/en-us/index.php?p=archnews&sub_menu=cosafacciamo&s_sub_menu=prodotti&prod=Pizza&pop=PopGalleryPizza&id=14

   

Ingredients
100% Italian soft wheat flour, mother dough
Use
For short and medium leavening time. for traditional round VERACE PIZZA NAPOLETANA and traditional Neapolitan pan pizza and by the meter pizza.
Product Data
Code F00P25NA - Size 25kg and 10kg
Average rheological characteristics
W ind. 240/270 - P/L 0,50/0,60 - Absorp. 56-57% - Stabilità 10-12' - Amilogr. 800/1000
Phisical characteristics
Umidity 15,5% - Ashes 0,50%s.s. - Prot. 13%
Storage
Keep cool, dry and well aired

[Pete-zza]

Paolo,

Thank you for your detailed reply. Ideally, if you can get to the point where you do just a bulk dough with a single division of the bulk dough, without the need to do any subsequent re-balling, that may be the ultimate solution. I did some rough calculations based on your original fermentation protocol and came up with a yeast quantity that was much more than you used and suggested the possibility of overfermentation. That is why I asked about the progress of the fermentation of the dough and also why I mentioned the possibility of refrigerating the dough to slow down the fermentation process. However, I couldn't be sure of my numbers because they were based on a different (but similar) reference standard and my numbers did not apply to a bulk fermentation followed by fermentation of the individual dough balls.

I'd like to see you continue with your experiments and to report them on the forum. There is always the possibility of critics offering criticism but not constructive advice, but we have a very good group of members who know the Neapolitan style and are available to help you. I also think that many of our members would like to see more on the use of the RD flour, especially if you lower the hydration value in a future experiment.

Peter

[Mangia Pizza]

Paolo,


..............
I'd like to see you continue with your experiments and to report them on the forum. There is always the possibility of critics offering criticism but not constructive advice, but we have a very good group of members who know the Neapolitan style and are available to help you. I also think that many of our members would like to see more on the use of the RD flour, especially if you lower the hydration value in a future experiment.

Peter

Ok Peter, I will..... thanks for your interest and help on my learning journey......

[scott123]

That is all folks..... I did learn from many of you and for the harsh criticism.......I totally ignored it.......

'Harsh criticism?' In which posts were you 'harshly criticized?'

[Mangia Pizza]

'Harsh criticism?' In which posts were you 'harshly criticized?'

It wasn't you, so let it go.......

[andreguidon]

Finally found the info. requested:

http://www.molinoiaquone.com/en-us/index.php?p=archnews&sub_menu=cosafacciamo&s_sub_menu=prodotti&prod=Pizza&pop=PopGalleryPizza&id=14

   

Ingredients
100% Italian soft wheat flour, mother dough
Use
For short and medium leavening time. for traditional round VERACE PIZZA NAPOLETANA and traditional Neapolitan pan pizza and by the meter pizza.
Product Data
Code F00P25NA - Size 25kg and 10kg
Average rheological characteristics
W ind. 240/270 - P/L 0,50/0,60 - Absorp. 56-57% - Stabilità 10-12' - Amilogr. 800/1000
Phisical characteristics
Umidity 15,5% - Ashes 0,50%s.s. - Prot. 13%
Storage
Keep cool, dry and well aired

This answers the question about the dough being wetter....  250W (+ -) needs less water and less fermentation time. Try this with a 12h formula and 58% hydration.

[Mangia Pizza]

This answers the question about the dough being wetter....  250W (+ -) needs less water and less fermentation time. Try this with a 12h formula and 58% hydration.

Grazie Andre....

[PizzaVera]

Caputo pizzeria VS Supremo Italiano pizzeria (RD brand)

Same identical conditions and proportions:

Flour (100%):    1096.27 g  |  38.67 oz | 2.42 lbs
Water (60%):    657.76 g  |  23.2 oz | 1.45 lbs
IDY (.025%):    0.27 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.09 tsp | 0.03 tbsp
Salt (2.8%):    30.7 g | 1.08 oz | 0.07 lbs | 5.5 tsp | 1.83 tbsp
Total (162.825%):   1785 g | 62.96 oz | 3.94 lbs | TF = N/A
Single Ball:   255 g | 8.99 oz | 0.56 lbs

24 hr bulk / 24 hr balls

Who will reign supreme?

hi, any  reason you decided to go with a 48 hour rise?

[Mangia Pizza]

hi, any  reason you decided to go with a 48 hour rise?

I had had good results with Craig's protocol and so I decided to use his method.....

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20477.0.html

[Bigfoot21075]

The RD here has 00 flour on sale for $28 for 55 lbs....