Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project

[PetersPizza]

Inspired by this topic and Scott's NY passion in the 'The Reinhart Dialog' I had give it a shot.

These were made using the formulation on page 1 of this topic http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.0.html

King Arthur BF (3 balls, 14”, 325 gr. each, Bake time: 7 mins)

587 gr. Flour (100%)
370 gr. Water (63%)
9 gr. Sea salt (1.5%)
6 gr. Olive oil (1%)
2 gr. IDY (0.3%)

Mixed by hand for 2-3 minutes, rested for 15 and hand kneaded for 12 minutes.
Then left to bulk rise for 2 days; scaled/balled and taken out about 40 minutes before baking.
Baked on a preheated cordierite stone at 550F(likely higher stone temp) for 5 minutes than removed for 1-2 minutes while the broiler heated up.
Broiled for about 40 seconds.
The cheese was Galbani low-moisture WM and a bit of some no-name provolone. Finished with strips of fresh mozzarella, added before broiling.
Sauce was jovail whole peeled tomatoes with salt, basil and oregano.

Seems these pics were too large for the built-in file attachment, here are the fickr links. Is there a way to embed them?

Due to low light they seem much darker than they were.
Three pies.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8460/7987342656_5fa8da51b3_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8295/7987335229_b11a1f80bd_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8444/7987341072_5e9b486631_b.jpg
Undercrust
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8306/7987340166_30b69e4596_b.jpg
Crumb
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8457/7987350452_c424748eaa_b.jpg

Anyway let me know what you think...since this is my second NY style experiment any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
Spent the last few days browsing through this pizza heaven  

-Peter (another peter)

[Ev]

Good looking pies, there!

[jever4321]

NIIIICE!  Great job!

[PetersPizza]

Thanks guys.
Round three...same dough formulation but perfect thickness this time around imo.
Three more pies.
Full size images...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8041/7998376573_8896c0d528_k.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8305/7998383150_2d12dbc0a2_k.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/7998382119_dc077daed0_k.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8319/7998419230_51325df5d0_k.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8297/7998385574_854914a1d7_k.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8316/7998383243_9026983b25_k.jpg

-Peter

[Giggliato]

Those do look good, I cook in an electric oven at home too and can get a 5 minute bake by superheating the stone for about ten minutes by placing it directly under the broiler, I turn the broiler off before sliding the pizza in.

[Essen1]

Peter,

Looks like you nailed it! Very nice pies. 

[PetersPizza]

Peter,
Looks like you nailed it! Very nice pies. 

For longer ferments...4-5 days should I add 1% sugar?

Now it's time to find a cheaper mozzarella source. $6/lbs isn't going to last long

-Peter

[Essen1]

For longer ferments...4-5 days should I add 1% sugar?

Now it's time to find a cheaper mozzarella source. $6/lbs isn't going to last long

-Peter

1% sounds about right. You might even can go as high as 1.5%

Regarding the mozza, depending on where you are or if you Have Trader Joe's in your area...I'd go with the low-moisture whole milk mozza from them. To me it's the best cheese available on the retail level.

[scott123]

1% sounds about right. You might even can go as high as 1.5%

Unless Peter is looking for extreme browning or a very sweet crust, 4-5 days is going to generate a ton of sugar in the dough. More time + less yeast = more enzyme generated sugar.

[Essen1]

Unless Peter is looking for extreme browning or a very sweet crust, 4-5 days is going to generate a ton of sugar in the dough. More time + less yeast = more enzyme generated sugar.

Scotty,

I was thinking more along the lines of the yeast not running out of food. But you're correct.

[PetersPizza]

This was a 4 day cold rise. Scaled and balled about 8 hours before baking.
Same dough formulation scaled up to make three 15in pies.
Finishing off all of the different mozz brands that I've been experimenting with....took some added salt/oregano to improve the flavor.
Next week the good stuff is coming, for 1/4 of the price, thanks to a local pizzeria.   $2.10/pound for low-moisture whole milk.
Also picked up an IR thermometer. The stone temp was 580 before the first pie...then took around 10 minutes to come back up to 550
Full Size shots.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8458/8031449738_cc09ba917b_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8320/8031427275_4ac972e267_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8311/8031413268_1b59c5bce9_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8181/8031409189_4229d77706_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8321/8031403033_ebd37857e9_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8450/8031433950_8e46f8a2e4_b.jpg

-Peter

[PetersPizza]

Crumb

[scott123]

Peter, that is a pizza to be proud of.  Well done.

Since you're already using Mike as your inspiration, I would follow his later lead and go with some sugar, maybe 1%, possibly even 2.

Are you using the dough calculating tool to get a thickness factor, and, if so, where are you at?

Unless you're at 4 minutes with the undercrust and could push it one more minute, it's time for a better stone.  580 might be high enough to use a high alumina cordierite stone like Mike uses- maybe.  Or there's 1/2" steel.

Btw, splitting up the bottom and top bake is counterproductive.  Pizza needs intense heat from above and below at the same time so that when the bottom heat puffs the crust up, the top heat sets it as close as possible to it's apex. Pre-heat your stone on an upper shelf, close to the broiler, and turn on the broiler a couple minutes into the bake.

[PetersPizza]

 
If I remember correctly, this one was calculated off of a .07 thickness factor. Next time around I'll start adding some sugar.

Right now I'm working with a 1/2" thick 16" round Old Stone. Any reputable online sources for a high alumina cordierite(klin shelf)?
Playing with one of VillaRoma's 100% whole wheat doughs. I'll make sure to preheat on the upper shelf for those pies.
The good cheese should be available tomorrow, after that it's back to the NY quest.

Thanks for the advice.

-Peter

[scott123]

Here's the stone Mike uses:

http://www.ceramicssf.com/shelves-posts.htm

although I think he takes it above 600.

Here are a few more options:

http://www.baileypottery.com/kilnfurniture/kilnshelves.htm
http://www.highwaterclays.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=247
http://coneartkilns.com/index.php/kiln-furniture/shelves-high-temperature-alumina.html
http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/High-Alumina-Cone-11-Kiln-Shelves-s/317.htm
http://www.dogwoodceramics.com/Products/Paragon_Kiln_Shelves.htm

Out of this list, I think the Bailey shelves show the most promise.  The reference to cone 11 is encouraging as is the 'dry pressed' reference. I am concerned about the rough surface of the shelves in the picture, though, as well as the possibility for a minimum order.

I get the feeling that even with a higher quantity of alumina, these shelves might not cut it at 580.  I've written all these companies (and more) looking for specs on their shelves, and, while most of the companies got back to me, no one has been able to give me figures. As long as you get a thick enough shelf (minimum .75" and preferably 1"), these will outperform your present shelf, but I don't think they're going to get you down to a 4 minute bake, which is where you want to be.

How long was this last bake?

[norma427]

Peter,

Your pictures of your pizza sure look good.    Congrats!  I really like your crumb!

Norma

[Essen1]

Peter,

That pie looks great. You're making progress

Like Scott123 already mentioned, I'd start gradually with the sugar at 1% and then take it from there.

Keep us posted.

[Essen1]

Here's the stone Mike uses:

http://www.ceramicssf.com/shelves-posts.htm

although I think he takes it above 600.

Here are a few more options:

http://www.baileypottery.com/kilnfurniture/kilnshelves.htm
http://www.highwaterclays.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=247
http://coneartkilns.com/index.php/kiln-furniture/shelves-high-temperature-alumina.html
http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/High-Alumina-Cone-11-Kiln-Shelves-s/317.htm
http://www.dogwoodceramics.com/Products/Paragon_Kiln_Shelves.htm

Out of this list, I think the Bailey shelves show the most promise.  The reference to cone 11 is encouraging as is the 'dry pressed' reference. I am concerned about the rough surface of the shelves in the picture, though, as well as the possibility for a minimum order.

I get the feeling that even with a higher quantity of alumina, these shelves might not cut it at 580.  I've written all these companies (and more) looking for specs on their shelves, and, while most of the companies got back to me, no one has been able to give me figures. As long as you get a thick enough shelf (minimum .75" and preferably 1"), these will outperform your present shelf, but I don't think they're going to get you down to a 4 minute bake, which is where you want to be.

How long was this last bake?

Scotty,

I'll take the temp regularly above 600°F. It usually tops out somewhere around 625° - 630°F.

I highly recommend the kiln shelf over any other pizza stone, even the ones from American Metalcraft although they're fantastic.

Steel is whole different animal as I found out

[PetersPizza]

Thanks for all of the comments. I'll start looking around locally, might be able to get a shelf from a local artist.

The new cheese is amazing...major step up from $8/pound Galbani(Precious).
So much more flavor and for only $2.35/pound thanks to a friendly pizzeria owner.
Low-moisture whole milk Arrezzio/Sysco
Came out great on the 100% whole wheat pies today. I'll post some pics in the WW section later.

-Peter
6 pound block

[PetersPizza]

WW pies. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21246.new.html#new