Author Topic: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project  (Read 5581 times)

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Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2012, 10:11:00 PM »
Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
ADY (.3%):
Salt (1.8%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (169.1%):
Single Ball:
634.6 g  |  22.38 oz | 1.4 lbs
399.8 g  |  14.1 oz | 0.88 lbs
1.9 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
11.42 g | 0.4 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.05 tsp | 0.68 tbsp
12.69 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.82 tsp | 0.94 tbsp
12.69 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.18 tsp | 1.06 tbsp
1073.11 g | 37.85 oz | 2.37 lbs | TF = 0.0714
357.7 g | 12.62 oz | 0.79 lbs

Scaled up one of Mike's latest formulations for 3 15in pies.
The 2% sugar definitely improved the under-crust and browning, allowing for a shorter bake time.
Preheated at 550F for 1 hour, stone temp was 578F, turned the broiler on for 10 minutes right before baking then switched back to 550F. Stone temp was 594F before launching the first pie.
All three of the pies were launched at around 590F, using the broiler to bring the temp back up. Close to 5 minute, 30-45 second bakes.
The Arrezzio changed everything...MAJOR step up from the Galbani. So much more flavor and better spread.

Third pie didn't hang around for the cameraman.

-Peter
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 10:18:03 PM by PetersPizza »


Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2012, 10:11:34 PM »
 ;D under

Offline scott123

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2012, 10:20:44 PM »
Peter, you HAVE to be pretty ecstatic about these results.

Let me guess... a 5 minute bake?

Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2012, 10:24:57 PM »
YEAH very happy with these pies. Close to 05:30-45 bakes including about 1 minute with the broiler on. :chef: about Perfect flavor except for the Cento puree that I used this time. Won't make that mistake again.
Back to the Jovial whole peeled until I can find a good source for D.O.P  San  Marzano.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 10:26:43 PM by PetersPizza »

Offline scott123

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2012, 10:40:44 PM »
Yes, while the Cento is the best tasting puree, imo, puree is no competition for a less processed tomato.

I wouldn't worry about the San Marzanos. Too many brands are inferior. While you might get lucky and get a flavorful San Marzano, I think the odds are against you.  For NY, California is king.

I've never seen anyone more ready for a more conductive stone.  You could do a lot worse than making these stunning pizzas the rest of your life, but you should, at least once, get to experience a 4 minute pie.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 11:50:48 PM by scott123 »

Offline norma427

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2012, 07:54:21 AM »
Peter,

Great looking pies!   :)  I really like your rim and bottom crust browning.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Essen1

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2012, 03:50:01 PM »
Peter,

Absolutely fantastic results! Congrats.

One thing, though, to make the pies even better...concentrate a bit more on the shaping & stretching when opening the skins. There's a little weak spot in the first pic's undercrust. Been there, done that and found that a properly formed skin bakes up much better, imho.

Other than that, I'm glad you're enjoying the formula so far.  ;D
Mike

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Offline Essen1

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2012, 03:58:34 PM »
Here's the stone Mike uses:

http://www.ceramicssf.com/shelves-posts.htm

although I think he takes it above 600.

Here are a few more options:

http://www.baileypottery.com/kilnfurniture/kilnshelves.htm
http://www.highwaterclays.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=247
http://coneartkilns.com/index.php/kiln-furniture/shelves-high-temperature-alumina.html
http://www.sheffield-pottery.com/High-Alumina-Cone-11-Kiln-Shelves-s/317.htm
http://www.dogwoodceramics.com/Products/Paragon_Kiln_Shelves.htm

Out of this list, I think the Bailey shelves show the most promise.  The reference to cone 11 is encouraging as is the 'dry pressed' reference. I am concerned about the rough surface of the shelves in the picture, though, as well as the possibility for a minimum order.

I get the feeling that even with a higher quantity of alumina, these shelves might not cut it at 580.  I've written all these companies (and more) looking for specs on their shelves, and, while most of the companies got back to me, no one has been able to give me figures. As long as you get a thick enough shelf (minimum .75" and preferably 1"), these will outperform your present shelf, but I don't think they're going to get you down to a 4 minute bake, which is where you want to be.

How long was this last bake?


Scotty,

I like what Bailey Ceramics has to offer on kiln shelves.

http://www.baileypottery.com/kilnfurniture/kilnshelves.htm

I particularly like the C-170-33 (18x18x1) shelf. Not a bad price and I might have to look a bit deeper into it now that I know that my oven can hold an 18' inch steel plate/stone...

;D
Mike

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Offline scott123

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2012, 10:25:09 PM »
 ;D

Mike, the odds that the Bailey stone will perform significantly differently than your SF stone are pretty low, but that doesn't mean that I'm not curious. From a research perspective, it would be incredibly invaluable to see how these two stones perform with the same dough.

Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2012, 01:03:13 AM »
Peter,

Absolutely fantastic results! Congrats.

One thing, though, to make the pies even better...concentrate a bit more on the shaping & stretching when opening the skins. There's a little weak spot in the first pic's undercrust. Been there, done that and found that a properly formed skin bakes up much better, imho.

Other than that, I'm glad you're enjoying the formula so far.  ;D
Thanks.

Yeah, I definitely have a ways to go with my stretching/tossing skills.
Going to check with some local pottery supply shops this week. If that doesn't work out, I'll pick one up online.

-Peter


Offline pythonic

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2012, 09:43:00 AM »
Peter,

Very nice looking pies you've got here.  I didn't see it in previous post but what type of flour/flours are you using here?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2012, 06:02:01 AM »
Peter,

Very nice looking pies you've got here.  I didn't see it in previous post but what type of flour/flours are you using here?

Nate
Glad you like them Nate,

All of these were made with King Arthur bread flour. 12.7% protein

-Peter

Offline pythonic

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2012, 02:53:42 PM »
I tried this dough formulation with the KABF yesterday and had some problems.  The dough seemed dryer than normal for a 63% hydration dough.  I mixed the oil in with the water, sugar and yeast and then added the flour and salt.   I went with it but it barely fermented after 24hrs in the fridge.  No rise whatsoever.   No clue what happened.  I have the dough balls out of the fridge now to see if that helps.

Nate
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 02:55:18 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2012, 10:17:28 PM »
I tried this dough formulation with the KABF yesterday and had some problems.  The dough seemed dryer than normal for a 63% hydration dough.  I mixed the oil in with the water, sugar and yeast and then added the flour and salt.   I went with it but it barely fermented after 24hrs in the fridge.  No rise whatsoever.   No clue what happened.  I have the dough balls out of the fridge now to see if that helps.

Nate
Do you know what your water temp was? or final dough temp? I tend to let mine rise a room temp for about an hour before moving it to the fridge.
Also possible your yeast is old or partially dead.


-Peter

Offline Essen1

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2012, 12:25:46 AM »
Pythonic,

Try this one outlined here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg125785.html#msg125785

Works also very well with KABF but when using such flour increase kneading time just a tad. Don't over-knead, though!
Mike

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Offline pythonic

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2012, 01:04:30 AM »
Water temp was too low.  I made another batch last night and it looks much better.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2013, 01:00:17 AM »
Anyway after a few months traveling, including a week in Naples (topic coming soon), I needed to get my hands in dough.
Per my kids request I 'had' to make pizza. Luckily the local pizzeria was still ok with me buying a 6 pound block of their Arrezzio WM mozzarella.
Flour (100%)   
Water (63%)
ADY (.3%)
Salt (1.8%)
Oil (2%)
Sugar (2%)

Bulk fermented at 38F for around 30 hours, balled, then back into the fridge for 12 hours and removed an hour before baking.
Preheated for 1.5 hours (stone temp around 580F) then switched to the broiler for 30 minutes, flipping it on/off every time it would go off on its own. This brought the stone temp up to 615F!! ;D (recorded before launching the first pie).
First pie (garlic/eggplant) baked in just under 5 minutes, including 1 minute with the broiler on. The following two pies were left too long, around 5:40 and ended up a bit too crisp.


Now that I'm confident the oven can hit over 600F, it's time to order a kiln shelf. Looks like the Bailey pottery 16x18 3/4 should fit perfectly  http://www.baileypottery.com/kilnfurniture/kilnshelves.htm
I don't see a WFO in the near future so I'll stick to NY for now. Good chance I'll end up back in Naples in a few months.  ;D

-Peter


Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2013, 01:01:24 AM »
Continued

Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2013, 01:02:22 AM »
Garlic eggplant

Offline henkverhaar

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Re: Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2013, 01:35:15 AM »
Now it's time to find a cheaper mozzarella source. $6/lbs isn't going to last long
Make your own? It's actually quite simple...

Henk