Second NY Style Experiment Based on Essen1's Pizza Project

[PetersPizza]

Make your own? It's actually quite simple...

Henk

Something I'll look into, but for now the wholesale cheese is excellent and affordable at $2.50 a pound.

-Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

Your recent pies look very good!

Norma

[Seven]

Awesome looking pies! What's the "secret" to getting the cheese to look like that? I've gotten that look a few times but not consistently. Thanks!

[scott123]

John, it's foodservice (aka Grande clone) mozz, in this case, Arrezzio.

The difference in quality between wholesale cheese and retail cheese is night and day.  You can, with a little luck, and some additional fat/oil, get a supermarket cheese to melt like this, but it's not easy.

[Seven]

Thanks, Scott! I don't want to take this thread off course but would you describe the Restaurant Depot brand as a Grande clone?

[scott123]

John, yes. I can't vouch for the taste of RD, not having tried it, but I have yet to come across a wholesale mozzarella that didn't look like this when melted.

[scott123]

Peter, as always, beautiful looking pies.

Pizza bakes with stored heat, not just the heat on the surface of the stone. While using the broiler to pre-heat the stone might drive up the surface temp, it doesn't drive up the core temp, and the core temp is where it really matters.  I'm not telling you to nix the broiler re-heat- it does trim a little from the bake time, but the 615 benchmark that you hit is not a realistic representation of what the oven is capable of.  If I had to guess, I'd say that the broiler gave you an effective bump of about 5 degrees, putting you at 585.

My feelings are shifting a bit on high alumina kiln shelves.  There are no regulations governing how the shelves are labeled or what they can contain.  I'm not talking about safety. Kiln shelves are safe to bake on.  But the term 'high alumina' doesn't necessarily mean much, nor do the other claims on the Bailey website.  Someone definitely needs to, at some point, test the Bailey shelves, but between the fact that they haven't been proven and your low-ish 585 peak temp, I don't think that person should be you. It's too much of a crapshoot.  Mike's SF shelf is a proven performer. I can't guarantee you how much time it's going to trim, but at least, unlike Bailey, it has a track record.  If you want to go the ceramic route, that's the stone I'd go with.   If, on the other hand, you want to guarantee a 4 minute bake, then I'd suggest steel.  One nice thing about steel is that, with your 585 peak temp, you don't have to buy as heavy of a stone as other members here have.  You should be able to get away with 3/8" steel.

All THAT being said   another thing to consider is that there may not be a reason to trim any more time off the bake.  I generally push people towards 4 minute bakes when their oven setup is producing 7+ minute pies.  5 minute pies, though, that look as good as yours?  If you're curious about a slightly shorter bake time, sure, make the investment, but you might not see a vast improvement.  Also, if crispiness is important you, then 4 might not even be the right direction, as the crust will soften up as you decrease the bake time.

[PetersPizza]

Peter,
Your recent pies look very good!
Norma

Thanks!

Awesome looking pies! What's the "secret" to getting the cheese to look like that? I've gotten that look a few times but not consistently. Thanks!

Thanks Seven. The key to the cheese looking like that is lots of bottom heat, low thickness factor and food service mozzarella, as Scott said. It is pitiful how bad retail WM low moisture mozzarella tastes/melts.

Peter, as always, beautiful looking pies.

Pizza bakes with stored heat, not just the heat on the surface of the stone. While using the broiler to pre-heat the stone might drive up the surface temp, it doesn't drive up the core temp, and the core temp is where it really matters.  I'm not telling you to nix the broiler re-heat- it does trim a little from the bake time, but the 615 benchmark that you hit is not a realistic representation of what the oven is capable of.  If I had to guess, I'd say that the broiler gave you an effective bump of about 5 degrees, putting you at 585.

My feelings are shifting a bit on high alumina kiln shelves.  There are no regulations governing how the shelves are labeled or what they can contain.  I'm not talking about safety. Kiln shelves are safe to bake on.  But the term 'high alumina' doesn't necessarily mean much, nor do the other claims on the Bailey website.  Someone definitely needs to, at some point, test the Bailey shelves, but between the fact that they haven't been proven and your low-ish 585 peak temp, I don't think that person should be you. It's too much of a crapshoot.  Mike's SF shelf is a proven performer. I can't guarantee you how much time it's going to trim, but at least, unlike Bailey, it has a track record.  If you want to go the ceramic route, that's the stone I'd go with.   If, on the other hand, you want to guarantee a 4 minute bake, then I'd suggest steel.  One nice thing about steel is that, with your 585 peak temp, you don't have to buy as heavy of a stone as other members here have.  You should be able to get away with 3/8" steel.

All THAT being said  another thing to consider is that there may not be a reason to trim any more time off the bake.  I generally push people towards 4 minute bakes when their oven setup is producing 7+ minute pies.  5 minute pies, though, that look as good as yours?  If you're curious about a slightly shorter bake time, sure, make the investment, but you might not see a vast improvement.  Also, if crispiness is important you, then 4 might not even be the right direction, as the crust will soften up as you decrease the bake time.

Thanks for the kind words Scott. Soon after you posted I had the opportunity to hunt for a piece of steel. The only 1/2 inch a36 they had on the lot, was pitted and rusted. So instead I had them cut a 3/8 16x17.5" stainless plate. I know it won't be near as conductive but should make for some interesting experiments. It's in the oven preheating now. If it isn't useful as a 'stone' it will become my new prep surface.

-Peter

[PetersPizza]

First SS bake...it works

Preheated for around an hour and 15 minutes to 586F...really surprised how quick it heated up.
I had one dough ball left from last night made out of 00.
100% 500g Caputo Pizzeria
65%   325g Water
2%     10g  Sea salt
.6%    3g   Active dry yeast
279 per ball.
Both pies were stretched to about 13.5", very thin.
Last night's pie was baked on the stone for just over 5 minutes, with the broiler on for the final minute.
Today's pizza baked on the SS for 4 minutes 10 seconds(my time keeper was home from school), with the broiler on for the final minute.
The difference is amazing...the SS pie came out perfectly tender and slightly crisp without any bottom burning.

Next batch will be a NY dough with KABF.


Couldn't be happier with this SS plate.

-Peter
First two pictures are of last nights pizza.

[PetersPizza]

Stainless pie

[Chicago Bob]

Peter,
Congrats on your new SS piece. Your pics are very high quality, thanks. Wish I could eat that whole pie man! 

[PetersPizza]

Thanks Bob...natural light helps a ton.


Went down the search-feature rabbit hole last night looking for oven mods. After winding through many different posts I found a simple safe option to adjust the oven temp calibration (Thanks Scott). I was able to raise the temp by 35*, every degree helps.  

After an hour and 20 minute preheat the SS got up to 610-14F. Recovery between pies took about 10 minutes.


100%  KABF
63%   Water
0.15%   IDY
2%     salt
1.5%   Oil
2%   sugar

Bulk RT ferment for 12 hours at 61F seriously, we like it cold  . 24 hours balled in the fridge at 38F.
The dough was over-fermented and a bit too elastic likely due to over-kneading, causing one pie to fold and all of them to contract.

First pie baked in 3:45 with the broiler on for the first 1:30.
Second pie baked in 3:30 with the broiler on for the first 1:30
Third pie baked in 3:25 with the broiler on for the first 1:45
Despite the poor dough management these were some of the best pies I've made. Light, tender and slightly chewy with still enough browning and char to add flavor. The slices that survived the lunch time onslaught and had time to cool, were still tender.

-Peter

[PetersPizza]

continued

[PetersPizza]

last

[bfguilford]

Peter: They all look fabulous. That last one looks like a veggie lover's dream (or at least THIS veggie lover).

Barry

[scott123]

Peter, that first pizza is spectacular.

After playing around with broiler timing a bit, I settled in on using the broiler for the last 1:30 of the bake rather than the first 1:30. For me, I think it produces a bit more oven spring. Maybe. You might want to play around with that and see how it turns out for you.  I've also been playing around with cycling the broiler on and off in an effort to get more even browning. I'm still dialing that in.

How long are you kneading for and how smooth is the dough prior to bulk? You're so far advanced, a step like this might not be necessary, but if you wanted to take photos of the pre-bulk and post-balled dough, we might be able to help you tweak the knead a bit.

I think you're ready for Pendleton flour. That should bring a slight improvement over the KA.