Earthstone 110 or FGM?

[scott123]

Tom, with the scarcity of wood in Naples, you don't think, in the last century, anyone tested a higher door?

[scott123]

Scott,  I  will be going to visit Antione  you would be  welcome to come along and check things out

John, when Antoine has an insert ready for testing, I would love to join you 

[Tscarborough]

I am just being facetious...

[scott123]

I am just being facetious...

Oh, okay  Your post does ring true in regards to one aspect, though- that the Neapolitans might very well be blindly following tradition. Tradition always has to be questioned. That's a given. But until we have data proving otherwise, it should get the benefit of the doubt.

[Reep]

I might be getting the first prototype.  Does that mean the pizza party is at my house?   

[RMWFO]

After searching quite a bit, I am down to two specific models that would work for me and would love input from anyone experienced with these or similar models.  This WFO will be part of an outdoor kitchen, where I have lots of space to work with.  I am interested in Neapolitan and California-style pizza and will be cooking for family and small parties at our home.  Pizza will be 90% of the use.  5% for bread making and 5% for other misc experimentation. 

Specifically this is what I'm looking at:

Earthstone 110
43" diameter circular cooking surface
solid build quality
more mass than FGM
higher dome
local builder

FGM FT1350C Lateral
Oval footprint: Wider and shorter than Earthstone
Lower dome
less mass

Price is close enough to be equal.  I know both builders are highly respected. I'm sure I would be happy with either oven, but the nuances between the two require more experience than I have to evaluate.

My main question is does the lower dome and wider/shorter footprint create an advantage?  And what about the lower mass?   

Hi Reep,

The lateral ovens have 2 big advantages:
- if you cook only pizzas you can have 2 fires running on each side of the oven. Thus you don't need to turn the pizzas as much or at all (big efficiency advantage!!). You save time and money
- if you run the fire on one side, you can cook pizzas close to the fire and have something else on the other side, that requires less heat (grill/roast meats, breads,...)
Lateral ovens are getting very popular in France now.

Cheers

[JConk007]

Seb. Not sure if you could save money, at least on wood if you were burning 2 fires ? I really like the FGM Long version now even more so than the lateral .  It allows much more room for production cooking you can have 3-4 cooking and a few in the front so as they cook they come to front ( need a good stick man for sure)  to keep nice and hot and finish  for those orders of 6 pies to a table, without pulling 2 or 3 out to wait for the others.  I think thats very cool for home use I dont see the need for pumping out 5-6 at a time? but who knows?  I think Reep went with the 1500 Raised  Long ? which is a great all around oven and  I am pretty sure he has more plans than just pizza cant wait to see it hes gonna loveit ? 

[RMWFO]

Since they all use the same cast door frame, maybe a hundred years ago there was only one company making those doors so they all used it and now it is tradition like so much of the Neapolitan pizza religion.

Hi there,

few comment on this great thread:
- yep, experience is key. Antoine and Xavier (FGM owner) will provide a lower door soon so we'll see the results.
- ovens' manufacturers don't provide many door sizes because of economic reasons. The ovens come in few parts and the arch/entrance of the oven is the most delicate part. They can't really afford to build a mold for the arch for each different size of oven.
- for me, the efficiency of the oven has more to do with the quality of the materials and the building process (vibration of the concrete, use of ssteel nidles,...). Size and position of chimney hole is also very important.
- if you lower the door, you may get more smoke in the oven. Not good. Also the fire will get less oxygen and may get less efficient
-the perfect ratio is 62-65% but starting 48" ovens, the ratio should decrease otherwise you get to much air
- Scott, Italians are certainly the pizza masters but French are the cooking masters in the world! (sorry, a little bit of French arrogance...
I think the best pizza is the one you like. Millions of Americans eat junk pizzas and love them. It's just a question of food education and we work hard to food-educate people. Especially in this country where the lobby-processed food-GMO industries control almost everything.  

[RMWFO]

Seb. Not sure if you could save money, at least on wood if you were burning 2 fires ? I really like the FGM Long version now even more so than the lateral .  It allows much more room for production cooking you can have 3-4 cooking and a few in the front so as they cook they come to front ( need a good stick man for sure)  to keep nice and hot and finish  for those orders of 6 pies to a table, without pulling 2 or 3 out to wait for the others.  I think thats very cool for home use I dont see the need for pumping out 5-6 at a time? but who knows?  I think Reep went with the 1500 Raised  Long ? which is a great all around oven and  I am pretty sure he has more plans than just pizza cant wait to see it hes gonna loveit ? 

You are right: in a residential use, you don't save money but in a pizza business you do because you don't turn the pizza as much so the less time (time is money) is necessary to manage the cooking. Wood: it's about the same quantity since you do 2 smaller fires that produce the same amount of heat than one.
I am not a fan of the Long ovens because when you have the fire in the back you loose a lot of heat (escapes from the entrance) but your point makes sense as well.
1500? I am sure he's gonna get new friends soon! 
Seb

[JConk007]

Yes, I agree they are quality ovens and  By the looks of that outdoor Kitchen he already Has alot of friends !!
John

[Reep]

Yes, I went with the 1500 deep.  I didn't have the width to put in the lateral.  It would have killed my symmetry.  The lateral would have been interesting to experiment with as it gives you more side to side variance while still being able to see what you are cooking.  I think the deep one will provide similar flexibility, but maybe quite as easy to see by the firelight as the lateral.