Author Topic: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One  (Read 223519 times)

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Offline fazzari

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #660 on: April 02, 2014, 11:45:52 PM »
Wow... you have the patience of Job.
That would have probably ended up being yet another place that couldn't handle the truth and "bared" me.  :-\
Thanks for that.....I just didn't know what to think.  I'll definitely try it again sometime>

John


Offline wsonner

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #661 on: April 03, 2014, 08:02:32 AM »
Thanks for that.....I just didn't know what to think.  I'll definitely try it again sometime>

John

Come to my pad, I'll make a Round Table Pizza for ya  :-D.  My wife is a high school teacher here in NH and I occasionally will make pizza and take it in for her kids.  She has a kid in there now from CA and last pizza day he spontaneously said, "This pizza tastes just like Round Table!"  My work here is done :-).

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #662 on: April 03, 2014, 08:33:23 AM »
Wes,

There is perhaps no one more anal than I when it comes to seeking perfection in the numbers, even when I know that it may be a fool's errand, but the reality is that most dough formulations can tolerate reasonable changes in the amounts of ingredients. So, for example, when a dough formulation calls for, say, 5% oil, using 4% or 5% oil is not likely to be detectable by the average eater. Also, different people have different taste tolerances to things like salt, sugar and oil and especially salt and sugar. What is as important in my opinion as the amounts of ingredients is the thickness of the crust in relation to the pizza size (which is something that I often struggle with when I have never tried the pizza I am trying to replicate), and also the overall look and feel of the pizza. So, if you are going to mimic a pizza like the Round Table pizza, for the full experience ideally you want your clone to look like a Round Table pizza. The photo of the Round Table pizza that John posted doesn't look like the photos that I used to see of the Round Table pizzas of old, that is, before the bankruptcy filing.

Peter

Offline wsonner

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #663 on: April 03, 2014, 08:35:58 AM »
Wes,

There is perhaps no one more anal than I when it comes to seeking perfection in the numbers, even when I know that it may be a fool's errand, but the reality is that most dough formulations can tolerate reasonable changes in the amounts of ingredients. So, for example, when a dough formulation calls for, say, 5% oil, using 4% or 5% oil is not likely to be detectable by the average eater. Also, different people have different taste tolerances to things like salt, sugar and oil and especially salt and sugar. What is as important in my opinion as the amounts of ingredients is the thickness of the crust in relation to the pizza size (which is something that I often struggle with when I have never tried the pizza I am trying to replicate), and also the overall look and feel of the pizza. So, if you are going to mimic a pizza like the Round Table pizza, for the full experience ideally you want your clone to look like a Round Table pizza. The photo of the Round Table pizza that John posted doesn't look like the photos that I used to see of the Round Table pizzas of old, that is, before the bankruptcy filing.

Peter

Agreed completely. The crumb looks like bread, very unlike RT's laminated crust.

Offline wsonner

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #665 on: April 03, 2014, 08:58:07 AM »
Looks like Beavis got ahold of the docker for this one.

Offline Tampa

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #666 on: April 03, 2014, 09:23:37 AM »
There is perhaps no one more anal than I when it comes to seeking perfection in the numbers, even when I know that it may be a fool's errand.
Peter
Is it wrong of me to go off topic, take a moment to savor the humor, and suggest using this as a signature of future posts? >:D
Dave

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #667 on: April 03, 2014, 09:47:44 AM »
Is it wrong of me to go off topic, take a moment to savor the humor, and suggest using this as a signature of future posts? >:D
Dave

Dave,

LOL. Maybe this would be a better choice for a new signature for me to aspire to:

Knowledge comes by taking things apart: analysis. But wisdom comes by putting things together.
-- John A. Morrison

Peter

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #668 on: April 03, 2014, 01:34:21 PM »
Today, I finally got a chance to eat a Round Table Pizza.  I drove over to the Tri Cities in Washington State to visit family and to eat at new pizza joint there, and on my way out of town, I stopped at the RT in Kennewick.  I ordered a small anchovy pizza (I got to hear the employees fight about who had to put the anchovies on).  Anyway, they docked the dough before assembling, placed on some kind of screen and ran it through the conveyor.  The flavors of the toppings were just fine.  The crust left alot to be desired.  In fairness, this is just one pizza, but if this is representative of what they put out...I'd say it's mediocre at best.  You can see for yourself, there is very little oven spring action in the cross section and the bottom is very light in comparison to the darkness of the top.  There is no crispness at all....but then again I don't know if it's designed that way.

I have to wonder and maybe this is way off base.....alot of pizzas are baked in conveyor ovens now days.  This takes alot of pressure off having to have great oven tenders.  Could it be that not all types of pizzas are baked up best in conveyors.  I know the texture of the RT clones I have baked on my decks or even at home are hands down way better than what I had today.  Any thoughts.

I don't want to leave the impression that this pizza was bad...it wasn't...but it was far from memorable, and at this stage of my life, I'll save my calories for the great stuff!!

John


John that pizza looks like old or over worked/floured dough.
But the crumb pic looks like the result of lecithin.


The last RT Pan Pizza I had, about year ago, I notice it had the texture and tasted like it had a dough improver and/or something sweet. I now recognize it to be the distinct flavor of soy lecithin.


But I didn't notice it in the Original Thin Crust though. Hmmm... to bad :(
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Offline Lydia

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #669 on: April 03, 2014, 01:55:43 PM »
Come to my pad, I'll make a Round Table Pizza for ya  :-D .  My wife is a high school teacher here in NH and I occasionally will make pizza and take it in for her kids.  She has a kid in there now from CA and last pizza day he spontaneously said, "This pizza tastes just like Round Table!"  My work here is done :-).


Congrats  :chef:
The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.


Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #670 on: April 03, 2014, 02:07:37 PM »
John, not that you had prior reference, but welcome to the disappointed RT pizza club. I have yet to have a pie from this franchise taste like it used to before the trans fats were taken out of baked goods in California. They reformulated and it just isn't the same. The pizza is lifeless, breaddy, soggy and in some places way too spicy to make up for lack of crust flavor. There used to be a great aroma from just the crust itself. Your pictures are downright shameful looking. Too much top heat. Call it corporate greed.   :(

I'd take your pizzas over RT any day of the week.

Not the best example of RT on a good day, but see how yours compares to post #57 & 58. I think page 3 of this thread.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2014, 02:12:28 PM by DNA Dan »

Offline fazzari

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #671 on: April 03, 2014, 10:58:18 PM »
John, not that you had prior reference, but welcome to the disappointed RT pizza club. I have yet to have a pie from this franchise taste like it used to before the trans fats were taken out of baked goods in California. They reformulated and it just isn't the same. The pizza is lifeless, breaddy, soggy and in some places way too spicy to make up for lack of crust flavor. There used to be a great aroma from just the crust itself. Your pictures are downright shameful looking. Too much top heat. Call it corporate greed.   :(

I'd take your pizzas over RT any day of the week.

Not the best example of RT on a good day, but see how yours compares to post #57 & 58. I think page 3 of this thread.

Even though the crust I had was far from a good laminated cracker crust, I still would like to know more about conveyor ovens in regards to this type of pizza.  To think that one trains a person to put in a pizza on one end and that it is automatically done when it comes out the other boggles my mind.  Especially when you consider that a customer can order extra toppings or light toppings for that matter.  In contrast, every pizza is baked individually in a deck oven.  I don't know...I just need more info.  To further complicate the mess, these skins are very hard to make to perform consistently, day in day out, flour changes, weather changes, aging issues.  Anyway, this is still fun stuff.

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #672 on: April 03, 2014, 10:59:27 PM »
Come to my pad, I'll make a Round Table Pizza for ya  :-D.  My wife is a high school teacher here in NH and I occasionally will make pizza and take it in for her kids.  She has a kid in there now from CA and last pizza day he spontaneously said, "This pizza tastes just like Round Table!"  My work here is done :-).
Well, I'm looking for a reason to come to Vermont...pizza is as good a reason as any, so don't count me out!!!  and thanks
John

Offline fazzari

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #673 on: April 03, 2014, 11:02:03 PM »

John that pizza looks like old or over worked/floured dough.
But the crumb pic looks like the result of lecithin.


The last RT Pan Pizza I had, about year ago, I notice it had the texture and tasted like it had a dough improver and/or something sweet. I now recognize it to be the distinct flavor of soy lecithin.


But I didn't notice it in the Original Thin Crust though. Hmmm... to bad :(
Well, you're a much better investigator than me...I'm just an experimenter........but, you can make great pizza at home Lydia...I'm just saying, maybe it's not the RT you remember, but it's good eats.

John

Offline dmckean44

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #674 on: April 04, 2014, 01:06:30 AM »
Even though the crust I had was far from a good laminated cracker crust, I still would like to know more about conveyor ovens in regards to this type of pizza.  To think that one trains a person to put in a pizza on one end and that it is automatically done when it comes out the other boggles my mind.  Especially when you consider that a customer can order extra toppings or light toppings for that matter.  In contrast, every pizza is baked individually in a deck oven.  I don't know...I just need more info.  To further complicate the mess, these skins are very hard to make to perform consistently, day in day out, flour changes, weather changes, aging issues.  Anyway, this is still fun stuff.

John

I live in California and can get Round Table all the time but don't because the consistency sucks. You had a pretty bad example but I would say I get one like that one in five times when I go. This forum is great though and you already make some of the best looking pizzas in that style so I would be proud.

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #675 on: April 04, 2014, 02:02:47 AM »
You're dead on about the conveyor John. If I loaded up more toppings on it, I had to "push it back" so it would stay in there longer. Cheese pizzas went really fast and I had to use a peel to pull them out. There's two approaches to manage this. I have seen conveyors that have split feeds and you can actually run them at different speeds. Small pizzas, just cheese, garlic breads, etc. all get the fast speed while the combo goes on the slow side. Another approach which is what I typically see at RT is they run the oven on the hot side for the heavy loaded pizzas. If they are placing a "cheese only" pizza, an attempt is made to start it further in the oven so it's gets less heat exposure. Then on the back end you paddle the pie out early. This is why your cheese and anchovy had overcooked cheese. Rookie cooks didn't yank it out soon enough.

It's interesting, because I recently switched from a conveyor to a deck. What I have observed is the deck gives a superior bottom crunch (The pizza will even stay crispy after sitting in a serving tray.) However the conveyor seemed to make a more "puffy" crust. Or at least it had a wider margin of error to produce a puffy crust with a wider range of doughs. I'm using a very heavy steel oven with a 3/4 inch corderite stone. I also use the convection fan while cooking. Although probably close, I don't know if this is 100% as much heat transfer/intensity as I would get in a commercial deck oven from the top. Still working on it, but I think I need to reformulate my recipe because I have noticed a huge difference in hydration between beer vs. water.  I suspect it's the solid content of using beer.

I also tried making "deliberate scraps" and sheeting 50/50 with fresh dough as seen in the video you posted a few pages back. I didn't see any real appreciable difference in flavor or performance in my pies. I am still on the hunt for that elusive yeast and THATSMELL* Beer still gives me the best tasting crust over any yeast culturing methods I have tried over the years.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 10:46:33 AM by DNA Dan »

Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #676 on: April 04, 2014, 03:02:53 PM »
John, not that you had prior reference, but welcome to the disappointed RT pizza club. I have yet to have a pie from this franchise taste like it used to before the trans fats were taken out of baked goods in California. They reformulated and it just isn't the same. The pizza is lifeless, breaddy, soggy and in some places way too spicy to make up for lack of crust flavor. There used to be a great aroma from just the crust itself.

I completely agree with this.  The last time I had an RT pizza was 2 years ago.  The manager at that RT (Gridley, CA) told me they had just reformulated the dough at that time due to the California law that called for removal of trans fats.  The manager of the Shakey's in Oroville, CA told me the same thing a few days later.  I did notice a difference in the flavor of that crust on that visit.  Not a huge difference, but noticeable nonetheless.  I asked the RT manager if HE noticed any difference.  He said, "Yes, the dough rises a lot higher and faster now.  We have to watch it more closely and punch it down more."  Nice, but I prefer the old crust.

-ME
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 03:04:29 PM by Mad_Ernie »
Let them eat pizza.

Offline fazzari

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #677 on: April 04, 2014, 11:22:53 PM »
I live in California and can get Round Table all the time but don't because the consistency sucks. You had a pretty bad example but I would say I get one like that one in five times when I go. This forum is great though and you already make some of the best looking pizzas in that style so I would be proud.
Thanks for that.  I've got a niece and nephew (who grew up in my family's restaurant) who both live in the Tri Cities area.  I questioned them about RT and neither had much good to say about it.  It was funny, I thought the RT pie would be the best pizza I ate that day, but it just didn't work out.....maybe it was just a bad day.

John

Offline fazzari

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #678 on: April 04, 2014, 11:34:01 PM »


It's interesting, because I recently switched from a conveyor to a deck. What I have observed is the deck gives a superior bottom crunch (The pizza will even stay crispy after sitting in a serving tray.) However the conveyor seemed to make a more "puffy" crust. Or at least it had a wider margin of error to produce a puffy crust with a wider range of doughs. I'm using a very heavy steel oven with a 3/4 inch corderite stone. I also use the convection fan while cooking. Although probably close, I don't know if this is 100% as much heat transfer/intensity as I would get in a commercial deck oven from the top. Still working on it, but I think I need to reformulate my recipe because I have noticed a huge difference in hydration between beer vs. water.  I suspect it's the solid content of using beer.

I also tried making "deliberate scraps" and sheeting 50/50 with fresh dough as seen in the video you posted a few pages back. I didn't see any real appreciable difference in flavor or performance in my pies. I am still on the hunt for that elusive yeast and THATSMELL* Beer still gives me the best tasting crust over any yeast culturing methods I have tried over the years.

You would think that a pizza baked right on the deck would give you much better oven spring than one on a screen or in a pan, wouldn't you.  It's certainly the truth when baking bread. 

I wouldn't expect one to see appreciable difference in flavor or performance when using scraps....that's why we do it...I know of course that RT scraps are a day older, but that's a pretty thin crust.

John

Offline DNA Dan

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Re: Round Table Pizza dough recipe - Part One
« Reply #679 on: April 05, 2014, 11:47:25 AM »
You would think that a pizza baked right on the deck would give you much better oven spring than one on a screen or in a pan, wouldn't you.  It's certainly the truth when baking bread. 

Oven spring is similar, it just seemed like the conveyor gave more uniform results with a wider range of dough formulations. On the deck it's been hit or miss.  Like I said, I am still experimenting with different formulations so I'm sort of all over the place. I can say I don't think my home oven generates enough top heat intensity, because the pies puff out starting at the rim then move towards the center when cooked on the deck. Sometime the center is sort of flat with just the rim puffed up. Do you see this when using your commercial oven? or do your pies puff up evenly? This was one advantage of the conveyor, you could adjust the top heat and the elements covered the full width of the pie, center and all.