Author Topic: Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)  (Read 2483 times)

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Offline wotavidone

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« on: September 19, 2012, 05:00:29 PM »
Please understand that I'm not making this post to be rude or start a fight. I really am curious.
I like the way there are forums where people are dedicated to using fresh ingredients to make freshly cooked healthy nutritious food, so I hope someone will enlighten me.
I work with a guy who hails from Vermont, and we discuss the differences between American and Australian food a lot.
The thing that strikes me, from our conversations, is that Americans seem dedicated to using preprepared/preprocessed food.
He thinks hot-dogs are great food, whereas we Aussies think they contain the parts of the animal that are unusable/inedible unless rendered/ground into a paste and disguised. Similarly he refuses to eat fresh corned beef, he maintains the stuff that comes in a can is the "right" one.
He was an adult before he found out that cakes can be made from ingredients like fresh eggs, you don't have to buy a cake mix with dried eggs in it. Cooking food destroys some of the nutrition. I'm not advocating eating only raw food, but I simply cannot understand the American fascination with processing everything so it is unrecognisable, cooking it multiple times.
I just Wiki'd bacon jam. Sounds delicious.
But really, if you wanted bacon and onion on your pizza, why would you first stew it for hours with sugar?
To me its like cooking the sauce before you put it on your pizza. If you use tinned tomatoes, they've been heat treated in the can, then cooked on the stove, then cooked on the pizza.
When I make pizzas, the food only gets cooked once while its in my hands. I don't deliberately add oil or sugar, except the little drizzle of olive oil on a margherita, and I simply don't understand why you would add oil and sugar to a fundamentally healthy meal, or cook it to death.
There is a slide show on reuters.com at the moment that celebrates American food culture. The first slide shows a bloke chowing down on a hot dog, the second slide shows a woman standing in front of a poster advertising such gems as deep fried snickers and maple bacon donuts.
Enlighten me please.
Regards,
Mick
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 01:02:22 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2012, 06:12:57 PM »
I simply cannot understand the American fascination with processing everything so it is unrecognisable, cooking it multiple times.


Perhaps you don't mean to be rude or perhaps you are trying to be provocative, but making such a sweeping statement about a vast country with enormous cultural and culinary variations that you based on a friendship with a single American demonstrates, at best, a lack of information. Granted, there are plenty of people who share your friend's tastes, but if you poked around this forum long enough you would find many Americans who are very different from your friend.  

FYI, the pizza shown at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21067.msg211632.html#msg211632 was made with bacon I cured and smoked myself, the dough is made with wild starter cultures and carefully fermented for 2 days before being baked in a wood-fired oven, the tomatoes are fresh right out of my own garden. OK, I didn't make the cheese, so sue me. "American fascination with processing everything?" Are you serious?

« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 01:18:44 PM by Pete-zza »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2012, 06:24:22 PM »
Mick,

I think that there are several factors at play that help explain the differences between the U.S. and Australia in terms of eating habits.

First is population. The U.S. has a population of around 312 million people. Australia's population is around 23 million. As you can see from the table at http://exploredia.com/population-of-us-states-2011/, we have two states in the U.S., California and Texas (where I live), that alone have populations that are greater than Australia's. The United States has several states that can support agriculture and farming, but they are spread around the country and their crops and animal production is varied and diverse. In order to connect people with the nation's food supply, especially where around 312 million people are involved and where many of those people are in highly urban areas and do not have access to substantial local agriculture and farming, it takes a high degree of industrialization and food processing. It is also important to keep in mind that a good part of the industrialization of the nation's food supply was because of the growing population. For example, in 1900, the U.S. population was only 76 million people. That number itself is about three times the current population of Australia. There was no way of feeding the growing U.S. population without the industrialization of the food supply.

Second, a good part of the food processing industry in the U.S. is profit motivated, and in many cases the companies that make up the food processing industry are publicly held companies with fiduciary obligations to shareholders. That encourages inventiveness, innovation and entrepreneurism. The result is a high degree of competition, productivity (the highest in the world per capita) and the availability of almost endless choices for consumers. Also, when women started to enter the outside-the-home workforce in the U.S. in great numbers, processed foods were a boon for families. And they had more money to buy those foods.

Third, Americans have diverse diets and are prone to experimenting with the foods that they eat. That is how a bacon jam comes into being. And when food creations like that succeed, they are usually only a step or two away from being commercialized. Consider also how we have had several members on this forum who have gone professional based on unique ideas they got on this forum. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of our professional members using bacon jam on their pizzas (if it hasn't already happened).

Of course, for those who wish to avoid many of the types of food creations you mentioned, they are free to do so. In many parts of the U.S., there has been a return to the land in the past few years, even in fairly urban areas, with people growing a lot of the food they consume. There are also people who choose to make meals that are as close to the natural state as possible. But in a society as large and diverse as the U.S., you will always find the good, the bad and the ugly.

I am sure that there are other reasons for the disparity between the eating habits of Americans and Australians. But the above is how I perceive the differences and the reasons.

Peter

Online TXCraig1

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2012, 06:29:48 PM »
I'm not advocating eating only raw food, but I simply cannot understand the American fascination with processing everything so it is unrecognisable, cooking it multiple times.
I just Wiki'd bacon jam. Sounds delicious.
But really, if you wanted bacon and onion on your pizza, why would you first stew it for hours with sugar?

Maybe processing is not the right word? Was Julia Child a chef or a food processor? To me, processed food implies a factory and ingredients you wouldnít find in a home.

For me, itís about creating flavors. I like bacon and onion on a pizza; I also like bacon chutney made with bacon, onion, and yes sugar on a pizza Ė they are two VERY different pies. If I like them both, why not have both? I make some pies where I use fruit such as a fig that Iíve poached in honey. I make other pies with fresh figs where I drizzle honey on at the end. Flavor wise, there is little in common between them yet I like them both. Why should I only make the latter? I only use local, unprocessed honey if that helps.

Quote
To me its like cooking the sauce before you put it on your pizza. If you use tinned tomatoes, they've been heat treated in the can, then cooked on the stove, then cooked on the pizza.

Thatís a fair comparison. However, a lot of people like the flavor of a thrice cooked sauce. Why shouldnít they eat it? I prefer canned tomatoes in an ďuncookedĒ sauce. I donít see how that is any better or worse? I take it you never use canned tomatoes?

Quote
When I make pizzas, the food only gets cooked once while its in my hands. I don't deliberately add oil or sugar, except the little drizzle of olive oil on a margherita, and I simply don't understand why you would add oil and sugar to a fundamentally healthy meal, or cook it to death.

If someone likes a sweeter flavor or some olive oil flavor in their sauce, I donít understand why that is a problem? How is that unhealthy? Itís a tool to achieve a desired end.  Why would it bother you? I usually end up adding a little sugar to my sauce to get it where I want it. Itís a key element of the balance. If the tomatoes are not where they need to be, I have to help them.

Iím very confused as to why you have a problem with intermediate cooking steps? I made two mushroom pies last weekend. On one, the mushrooms went on raw and were the centerpiece. On the other, they were roasted along with some onions with a little evoo and salt. On this pie, they shared the stage with some speck. The pie would not have been anywhere near as good had I used them raw Ė nor would the firs have been as good if I precooked them.  Like a little sugar in my sauce, I see it as a matter of balance Ė not bias Ė a bias against intermediate cooking would limit my ability to achieve balance.

Quote
There is a slide show on reuters.com at the moment that celebrates American food culture. The first slide shows a bloke chowing down on a hot dog, the second slide shows a woman standing in front of a poster advertising such gems as deep fried snickers and maple bacon donuts.
Enlighten me please.
Regards,
Mick

You would probably be completely shocked and appalled with the Texas State Fair. You canít begin to imagine it until you see it. Acres and acres of vendors who have all tried to come up with ways to fry things you never thought possible. Fried snickers and maple bacon donuts would be considered quite pedestrian (but you would have no problems finding them as well).

Itís culture and tradition. You might think itís absolutely disgusting, but millions of people love it. Iím not saying itís a good thing, though in moderation, I donít think itís necessarily a bad thing either. This country has wide and varied tastes. Yes, there are plenty of folks here who eat lots and lots of processed foods and flat out unhealthy foods, but not everyone.

Some folks here in the states might find putting a slice of beet on a hamburger strange. And then there is VegemiteÖ  ;)

Craig
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 06:48:22 PM »

And then there is VegemiteÖ  ;)


I think I showed considerable restraint in not mentioning that. But I knew someone would.  >:D

Offline wotavidone

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 08:33:40 PM »
Well! that got the conversation going ;D
I wasn't trying to be provocative in any sense of starting an argument, however I must stress my perception of American eating habits is informed by much more than conversations with one guy.
It doesn't matter what forum one visits, what movie one watches - it all leaves an outsider with the impression its all hot-dogs, burgers, panfried! pizza, and soda.
And then there are the "people of Walmart".
Anyone seen the burger Mert Lawwill buys in "On Any Sunday"? Yes I know that documentary was made in the seventies, but I ain't convinced its any better yet.

Bill, well done on the homemade bacon and growing your own tomatoes. Mine aren't ready yet, but soon. We used to do our own bacon, too, when we still had the farm and our own pigs to slaughter.
However, I will forever struggle to understand the addition of sugar to a pizza. Many of the ingredients we use contain enough fat that I don't see the need to put oil in the dough or on the pizza either.
Not that I'm suggesting you put oil in your dough, I don't know whether you do or you don't, I'm just putting it up as an example of the things I see as silly.

I really should have started my own thread I guess, instead of hijacking yours.

I suppose I object to adding oil and sugar to pizza because it transforms it, in my eyes, from health food to artery clogging junk food.

Craig - I thought I made it clear why I had a problem with intermediate cooking steps - I believe it destroys the nutritional value (and the taste BTW) of the food.

Vegemite is God's gift to Aussies - even if it is now owned by an American company. :-D
Who have tampered with the recipe, apparently. The swine.

Beetroot is mandatory on a burger - if one must eat ground up inferior meat, stuck between two halves of a sugar loaded bun, risking a coronary with every bite, one must put beetroot on it. It's that simple. :-D
 The funny thing is, despite all the fried food, America has a lower death rate from heart attack than Australia. I put that down to better medical facilities - better at keeping people alive after their heart attack. Anyway, I was watching swamp people the other night and I gotta say them Cajuns know how to cook.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 08:39:17 PM by wotavidone »

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 08:53:31 PM »
It doesn't matter what forum one visits, what movie one watches - it all leaves an outsider with the impression its all hot-dogs, burgers, panfried! pizza, and soda.
And then there are the "people of Walmart".


I didnít realize all the folks in OZ were perfect?

Quote
Anyone seen the burger Mert Lawwill buys in "On Any Sunday"? Yes I know that documentary was made in the seventies, but I ain't convinced its any better yet.


Iím guessing we wonít be seeing you here anytime soon:  http://www.heartattackgrill.com/menu.html

Quote
I will forever struggle to understand the addition of sugar to a pizza. Many of the ingredients we sue contain enough fat that I don't see the need to put oil in the dough or on the pizza either.
Not that I'm suggesting you put oil in your dough, I don't know whjether you do or you don't, I'm just putting it up as an example of the things I see as silly.


One manís silly is another manís sensible. You know there are reasons someone might put sugar or oil in their dough other than to commit an extended suicideÖ

Quote
I suppose I object to adding oil and sugar to pizza because it transforms it, in my eyes, from health food to artery clogging junk food.


Seriously?  ::)
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2012, 08:54:28 PM »

I will forever struggle to understand the addition of sugar to a pizza. Many of the ingredients we sue contain enough fat that I don't see the need to put oil in the dough or on the pizza either.
Not that I'm suggesting you put oil in your dough, I don't know whjether you do or you don't, I'm just putting it up as an example of the things I see as silly.


No oil in the dough, but are you suggesting there is something wrong with oil? I'm not a big fan of refined sugar. The bacon jam used maple syrup and piloncillo.

So foods with sugar and oil are "artery-clogging junk food"? The link between dietary fat and serum cholesterol levels is far more complex than that and in many cases, oils are seen as a net benefit to heart health. There is also a great deal to be said about enjoying things that give us pleasure:

Old guy tells his doctor: I'm 70 years. I don't smoke, drink, enjoy female companionship, or eat things with fat or sugar. I'm going to live to be 90! The doctor says, "Yes, but why would you want to?"

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2012, 10:46:35 PM »
I suppose I object to adding oil and sugar to pizza because it transforms it, in my eyes, from health food to artery clogging junk food.
Since when was pizza "healthy"? Even if you're using no oil or sugars and what not it's still relativity high in cals and everything else. A guy that opened a new Neapolitan pizzeria kicked out people who asked for a salad. When they asked him why he said(para phrasing here) Who the hell goes to eat pizza and orders a salad. I think it was in England or Cali.

My question is why do people always want to make "unhealthy" food "healthy"?

Beetroot is mandatory on a burger - if one must eat ground up inferior meat, stuck between two halves of a sugar loaded bun, risking a coronary with every bite, one must put beetroot on it. It's that simple. :-D

You must be thinking of McDonald's or places of that nature. A lot of places that make really good burgers here grind their own meat(which is high quality) and sometimes even make their own buns.

The fact of the matter is that most people eat with their eyes and not with their tongue. If you took a person, blindfolded them,  gave them something to eat(if in fact it tasted good) they would say they liked it. But they would have never of eaten it if they saw it first. That's my honest opinion.

Offline wotavidone

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2012, 11:10:47 PM »
That's why I love Americans. They can justify anything. :P
BrickStoneOven - I really do believe pizza is healthy food. My objection to the oils (fats) and sugars is that they add readily digestible calories, and make the pizza less healthy.
I add oil if required -just can't see any reason to put it in dough, apart from adding more fat to the meal than I need to.
As for grinding good quality meat to make a burger - screw that, cook it rare and whack it on a plate - I've still got my teeth and I don't need or want it pre-chewed.

TXCraig - no the good folk of OZ are not perfect - in fact they are rapidly over taking the US in the obesity stakes - exactly my point.
I would go to the Heart Attack Grill just to poke fun at the idiots trying to get through a quadruple bypass burger.

Bill, I understand the whole issue of cholesterol. High cholesterol comes about due to your liver manufacturing lots of it to digest the fat (oil) in your diet. And a high sugar diet is a major risk factor to high tri-glycerides (the third blood fat no-one talks about).

Anyway, I've had my say. I still reckon any country that has acres of vendors trying to outdo each other in terms of what they can fry, and has places like the Heart Attack Grill, and invents something called bacon jam, has a long way to go.

On the other hand, you also invented catfish noodling, lever action rifles and small block chevs, so on balance I still like you despite the fact that I can't understand why you have to "improve" everything by adding fat sugar and frying it.


Offline Jet_deck

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 11:12:29 PM »
I just Wiki'd bacon jam. Sounds delicious.
Regards,
Mick


There are very few references on this forum to Wiki-anything. Grab a chair and start reading, really.

The only 'acceptable' food I ate in Australia was the Shepards pie in Narribri, and some American guys food in Cannes.




Nice pie Bill. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21067.msg211632.html#msg211632  It looks very light and munchable.  I will also try Havarti as soon as the oven arrives.  Top shelf looking in my newbie opinion. :chef:
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2012, 11:21:09 PM »
There are very few references on this forum to Wiki-anything. Grab a chair and start reading, really.

The only 'acceptable' food I ate in Australia was the Shepards pie in Narribri, and some American guys food in Cannes.


Cannes is in France

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2012, 11:29:08 PM »
Cannes is in France

Cannes - Cairns. What's the difference?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2012, 11:54:46 PM »
Cannes - Cairns. What's the difference?

Cannes is in France

If I would reply, it would be off-topic.  The food in Australia made me loose weight.
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 01:03:34 AM »
 
If I would reply, it would be off-topic.  The food in Australia made me loose weight.
:)
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Offline wotavidone

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 02:42:50 AM »
If I would reply, it would be off-topic.  The food in Australia made me loose weight.
Musta been healthy  ;D

Offline bakeshack

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2012, 04:04:14 AM »
Please understand that I'm not making this post to be rude or start a fight. I really am curious.
I like the way there are forums where people are dedicated to using fresh ingredients to make freshly cooked healthy nutritious food, so I hope someone will enlighten me.
I work with a guy who hails from Vermont, and we discuss the differences between American and Australian food a lot.
The thing that strikes me, from our conversations, is that Americans seem dedicated to using preprepared/preprocessed food.
He thinks hot-dogs are great food, whereas we Aussies think they contain the parts of the animal that are unusable/inedible unless rendered/ground into a paste and disguised. Similarly he refuses to eat fresh corned beef, he maintains the stuff that comes in a can is the "right" one.
He was an adult before he found out that cakes can be made from ingredients like fresh eggs, you don't have to buy a cake mix with dried eggs in it. Cooking food destroys some of the nutrition. I'm not advocating eating only raw food, but I simply cannot understand the American fascination with processing everything so it is unrecognisable, cooking it multiple times.
I just Wiki'd bacon jam. Sounds delicious.
But really, if you wanted bacon and onion on your pizza, why would you first stew it for hours with sugar?
To me its like cooking the sauce before you put it on your pizza. If you use tinned tomatoes, they've been heat treated in the can, then cooked on the stove, then cooked on the pizza.
When I make pizzas, the food only gets cooked once while its in my hands. I don't deliberately add oil or sugar, except the little drizzle of olive oil on a margherita, and I simply don't understand why you would add oil and sugar to a fundamentally healthy meal, or cook it to death.
There is a slide show on reuters.com at the moment that celebrates American food culture. The first slide shows a bloke chowing down on a hot dog, the second slide shows a woman standing in front of a poster advertising such gems as deep fried snickers and maple bacon donuts.
Enlighten me please.
Regards,
Mick

I think it boils down to you not having the same level of passion about food than most of us here.  We find joy in discovering something new with food on a daily basis and we take pride in that so much that we share it through forums like this so that like-minded people can also experience it.  

Based on what I have read so far, you are focused on healthy food, etc.  For me, there is nothing wrong with trying to be healthy by eating unadulterated/unprocessed food, etc. but there is also nothing wrong in trying to enjoy food not just for sustenance but also to elevate the ingredients in the best possible way to provide happiness to people through food.  Intermediate cooking of food is one way to elevate such ingredients.  Some ingredients benefit from intermediate cooking or additional handling while some are just meant to be eaten the way it is.  You have to know your ingredients and you cannot generalize, as a cook, that less handling of food means healthier or better.  Sometimes, less handling is a smokescreen for laziness. 

You have to understand that in some cultures (like mine), food is at the center of our lives on a daily basis.  We talk about food all the time and it brings us together as a family.  It makes us happy to be able to develop new flavors and create new textures.  It's nice to be able to take something so simple and common like bacon and elevate it into another form so one can enjoy the same ingredient but in a different way.  But for you to be able to do that, you need passion for food.  Without it, you will never appreciate it and you will never enjoy it.  I guess some cultures treat food just for sustenance and survival but, for me, if we get to that point, then it's game over.  

Marlon
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 04:09:35 AM by bakeshack »

Offline wotavidone

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2012, 05:38:52 AM »
You have to understand that in some cultures (like mine), food is at the center of our lives on a daily basis.  We talk about food all the time and it brings us together as a family.  It makes us happy to be able to develop new flavors and create new textures.  It's nice to be able to take something so simple and common like bacon and elevate it into another form so one can enjoy the same ingredient but in a different way.  But for you to be able to do that, you need passion for food.  Without it, you will never appreciate it and you will never enjoy it.  I guess some cultures treat food just for sustenance and survival but, for me, if we get to that point, then it's game over.  

Marlon
An excellent response to my original questions, thanks.
I must say though, I'm very passionate about food, just in a different way I guess.
I like it fresh, gathered myself if possible, and prepared with my own hands.
I grow my own when the seasons let me, I catch my own fish, I smoke food when the mood takes me, I brew my own beer when I feel like it, I kill my own chickens when I have them, eat eggs from my own chickens, etc, make my own dough (no oil ;)), built my own oven, and attendance at the dinner table for proper family meals is a family tradition. There is very little take out served at my table.
I guess it all comes down to I simply couldn't see how cooking bacon and onions in sugar or honey (which is just sugar syrup, albeit delicious, made by bees) can possibly be an improvement, which got me pondering how deep fried snickers, bacon maple doughnuts, waffles and pancakes dowsed in maple syrup, etc, could actually be any good for you, which got me thinking the first time ever I heard of any of these things America was involved, which lead me to "What is it with that?"
Maybe I just don't like sugar.
Anyway, I leave it there. There is no point in trying to reason with people who don't like beetroot on their burgers or vegemite on their toast. :-D
Regards,
Mick

Offline Jeep Pizza

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2012, 08:18:51 PM »
 ???
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Offline pizzaneer

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Re: American Eating Habits (Split Topic)
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2012, 08:50:45 PM »
And I was going to say how much I liked Outback Steakhouse....  because that is real Australian food, right?  Right?  :P
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.


 

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