Author Topic: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...  (Read 2811 times)

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Offline dvto2

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quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« on: September 27, 2012, 07:10:36 AM »
Any definitive posts on this choosing between these.  I know the tile is cheapest.  Is there any concern about the pigment in unglazed tiles - they all seem to come in colors. 


scott123

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2012, 02:34:58 PM »
Looking at your profile, it seems like Rubino's might be Chicago thin crust.  It's rigid, right? No floppiness, correct?

If you are striving for Chicago thin crust at home, then the longer bake time gives you a little more flexibility when it comes to choosing a stone. You should be able to get away with quarry tiles.  The pigment isn't a concern.  If you can get one that's dark, that's ideal, as it will speed up the pre-heat.

If you ever want to get into NY thin crust, though, then none of these are ideal at typical home oven temps.

Offline dvto2

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 02:56:10 PM »
Yes, a rigid crust, and I never had one in Chicago that matched it, though I lived there for 6 years.  My favorite pizza with a nice tangy sauce, not too much cheese and pepperonis are slightly burnt.   They have quite a fan club and ship all over the USA, but I guess we all love the pizza we grew up with. 

So what are the pros and cons of these materials?  I actually do more bread than pizza and was working on a pampered chef pizza stone that cracked in several places once I started to use it as a deflector in my smoker.

scott123

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 03:41:06 PM »
Quarry tile- low conductivity, low thermal mass, inexpensive, can be hard to find, certain brands can be especially fragile, can have low resistance to thermal shock (grill use can be iffy).

Cordierite- better conductivity, good thermal mass (if purchased thick enough) less expensive than fibrament, easy to order online, sturdy (usually), high resistance to thermal shock (grill friendly).

Fibrament- low conductivity, expensive, easy to order, sturdier than quarry tile, but less sturdy than cordierite, poor resistance to thermal shock (only works in a grill with a metal deflector).

The most important feature of all these materials is conductivity.  The conductivity dictates the transfer of heat, which in turn, dictates the bake time.  With Chicago thin crusts, you can pretty much use any material you want because the bake time is so slow, but as you get into NY style, you need fast bake times, and, in ovens with broilers, you need conductive materials- ideally more conductive than cordierite.  If the oven has the broiler in a separate drawer, then, for NY, you'll need a less conductive material, such as quarry tile along with a higher, modded oven temp.

Long story short, there is no 'one size fits all best stone,' only the best stone(s) for a particular scenario.

Quarry tile can work well for bread, although I'd seek out a tile that's a bit on the dense/solid side rather than one that feels a bit light for it's size.  The denser the tile, the less air, the less air, the greater the conductivity.  Quarry tiles might also benefit, on the bread side, from stacking to increase the thermal mass a bit.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 03:47:29 PM by scott123 »

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 04:01:40 PM »
Chicago is home to great tasting pizza that is unique in its own special limp crust. When I was a kid, growing up on the south side we used to get pizza from Ed and Joe's (yes, they are still there) and when we went to the store to pick it up it had some attribute that might be constrewed as crispy, but by the time it got to our home (3-blocks away) with exception to the four edges/corners of the party cut pizza crispiness was just a memory, but it still tasted Ooooooh soooo gooood!
Tom Lehmann
The Dough Doctor

Offline dvto2

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2012, 05:05:45 PM »
Quarry tile- low conductivity, low thermal mass, inexpensive, can be hard to find, certain brands can be especially fragile, can have low resistance to thermal shock (grill use can be iffy).

Cordierite- better conductivity, good thermal mass (if purchased thick enough) less expensive than fibrament, easy to order online, sturdy (usually), high resistance to thermal shock (grill friendly).

Fibrament- low conductivity, expensive, easy to order, sturdier than quarry tile, but less sturdy than cordierite, poor resistance to thermal shock (only works in a grill with a metal deflector).

The most important feature of all these materials is conductivity.  The conductivity dictates the transfer of heat, which in turn, dictates the bake time.  With Chicago thin crusts, you can pretty much use any material you want because the bake time is so slow, but as you get into NY style, you need fast bake times, and, in ovens with broilers, you need conductive materials- ideally more conductive than cordierite.  If the oven has the broiler in a separate drawer, then, for NY, you'll need a less conductive material, such as quarry tile along with a higher, modded oven temp.

Long story short, there is no 'one size fits all best stone,' only the best stone(s) for a particular scenario.

Quarry tile can work well for bread, although I'd seek out a tile that's a bit on the dense/solid side rather than one that feels a bit light for it's size.  The denser the tile, the less air, the less air, the greater the conductivity.  Quarry tiles might also benefit, on the bread side, from stacking to increase the thermal mass a bit.

Nice summary.  Thanks. 

Offline Riprazor

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2012, 05:29:33 PM »
If you can get them, I would go with medium density firebrick splits over quarry tile.  I have cordierite and Fibrament stones that I use in my grill but use firebricks in my oven.  I have them in an 18 x 18 inch configuration and get excellent results.  On the grill I tend to prefer the Fibrament stone, but as Scott said, it depends on what you are doing.

Barry

Offline dvto2

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 07:03:11 PM »
Why firebrick?  At 5/4" thickness, don't they take a very long time to heat up?

Offline dvto2

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2012, 12:08:04 PM »
I've seen some posts that warn against firebrick with regard to possible toxins.

I found 12 6" quarry tiles for about 11 bucks.  I'll probably get other materials as I explore pizza and bread making.  It sounds like steel plate is best for NY style. 

buceriasdon

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 01:35:39 PM »
This is the composition of common firebrick.
 Fire bricks are made from clays which contain 30-40% aluminum oxide or alumina and 50% silicon dioxide or silica. For bricks of extreme refractory character, use in kilns etc., the aluminum oxide content can be as high as 50-80%, with correspondingly less silica. Millions of ovens throughout the world use fire bricks in their construction and have done so for centuries. How is it you question fire brick, universally used, made from clay is not foodsafe? What are your sources for this false information?  Your quarry tiles are also made from clay why aren't you questioning the tiles? By the time tiles or fire bricks are fired and vitrified they are for all intents and purposes inert.


I've seen some posts that warn against firebrick with regard to possible toxins.

I found 12 6" quarry tiles for about 11 bucks.  I'll probably get other materials as I explore pizza and bread making.  It sounds like steel plate is best for NY style. 


Offline dvto2

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 02:48:57 PM »
I can try to dig up the post.  It was a post from a guy who worked in a plant where they made products like firebricks and his concerns about it.  I'll see if I can find it.   

Offline dvto2

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2012, 04:31:49 PM »
I can't seem to find the post I was referring to but I did find a pizza oven website that recommends firebricks in pizza ovens, including the floor of the pizza oven, so it sounds like firebrick is a good material for cooking with:

"Medium duty firebrick. This is the brick that we recommend for both the cooking floor and dome of the Pompeii oven. medium duty firebricks are comprised of roughly 35% alumina and 50% silica, heat up quickly, easily withstand the 900F heat your oven will reach, and are designed for the rapid heat-up and cool down (thermal cycling) that your oven will experience. Firebrick will also reach the heat required for pizza more quickly than clay brick, as they are more efficient at conducting heat."

http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/brick_primer.html

buceriasdon

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2012, 09:25:18 AM »
That settles that then.

Online shuboyje

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Re: quarry tile versus cordierite versus Fibrament...
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2012, 04:31:41 PM »
Just to put the nail in the coffin, the NSF labels firebrick and other similar ceramics as food safe with a pretty broad brush. 
-Jeff