newbie need help

[glennb6]

Hi

New to making pies here in NE Thailand. Made a LBE and have run a few bakes.
Today did a quick dough recipe from the site as follows;
measured by weight
Flour: 528g
salt: 8.5g
sugar: 24g
IDY: 8.5g
Ooil: 28g
warm water: 328ml

1. mix water+yeast+sugar and set 10 minutes -check
2. add sale + oil then blend in flour - check
3. knead 8 minutes - check
4. proof 1 hr in covered bowl to double - check
5. punch down and let rise again 1 hr. to almost double - check
6. cut into (2) parts and form shells, make and bake - oops

All ok up to forming where the dough was thick and quite not extensible, couldnt get it stretched but to a 9" thick amoebae without tearing. Took the rolling pin to salvage it and got to about a 15" amoebae with thin enough shell. Baked on LBE ~8 minutes, crust didn't rise much, base was stiff and like a thin crispy but tasted doughy even though it was 100% done.
I read here that rolling pins are not good (but no choice this time). Was expecting far more workable extensible dough and more voids in the crumb.
Other attempts with 12-24 hr refer proofs have come out basically the same.

Any suggestions?

[buceriasdon]

Glenn, You didn't say exactly how you handled the two balls after the seconde rise, but the spring back came from not allowing the gluten structure to relax after dividing. Do one first rise, then divide and let the two balls rise before opening. Do you have an IR gun for taking temps? At 8 minutes on a LBE one wouldn't get a great amount of oven rise.
Don

[glennb6]

Don,
1hr first rise doubled in size, took out of bowl and punched down some and back in to the bowl for another hour to rise again, which it did. Then, took out and cut big ball in half and immediately started trying to shape the first one. So OK, certainly I'll try to let the separated balls sit longer.
IR guns must be military grade and restricted in this country, shoot, I'm luck to have fire and flour here.

thx glennb6

[pizzaneer]

8 minutes on my LBE, even at lower NY temp around 600 would produce a charred, inedible circle.  Could you describe your LBE, or take some pictures?

[glennb6]

this time the LBE was running almost out of gas so didn't get so hot. also, have not yet put a deflector or stone under the lid.

[scott123]

Glenn, it depends on the size of your operation, but, in a commercial setting, the norm is to make the dough, immediately ball it, then let it ferment (preferably overnight) and stretch.  No punch downs, no re-balls.  You can add a bulk or a re-ball if you want, but just make sure you give it at least 6 hours between the re-ball and the stretch.

Are you looking to make NY pizza? Some of your percentages are a little outside the norm for NY.

[glennb6]

Don, todays lunch, yesterdays dough was;
F=272g
W=177ml (63%)
salt=7.8g
IDY=~.11g
mix salt+water then mix in flour and IDY for about 20min.
slap and fold (assume means kneading) 3-4 times wuiht 10 minute rests inbetween
bulk rise 10hrs covered at room temp
cut into 2 balls and rest ~5hrs
make mozzi and pep and bake

Result was much easier to work dough and for my limited experience shaping shells, were not too bad.
baked LBE (with a full tank of gas) in about 3 1/2 min each.
Crust was reasonably thin and crispy, but should have made a bit thicker and I've never yet got it to "golden brown". Crumb puffed a little bit more but not appreciably nor to my satisfaction. Taste wasn't too bad.
Don, the flour (United Mills) I get in Thailand is supposedly bread flower and that's all I can determine. Would going half half bread flour and AP flour help with towards a more ample airy crust? Should the total hydration be cut back?

Scott,
I'm sort of introducing 'real' pizza to uppernowheresville thailand on mobile food carts. Looks like cart will be equipt with an LBE and supplies. Make dough at home and take in cooler to cart(s) daily. I'm putting the test cart together and if it does alright then more to follow. My premise is that "how hard can it possibly be to make a decent pizza!?" at least when compared to the wonderbread with mayo, corn, 10g of mystery cheese and sliced hot dog slivers, oh, and ketchup, slightly warmed over that's sold sparingly around here. I will learn to make a decent pie first
All comments and suggestions are very welcome.

[glennb6]

did a few more bakes and variances on ingredients.

F 100%
W 72%
IDY .1%
1 hr warm bulk > 45h in refer> 4-5hr warm bulk

This actually worked out rather well. It didn't do much to speak of after sitting in the refer for almost 2 days, but then the warm bulk doubled quickly. Dough was workable but not overly. Baked up good crumb and firm bottom, overall pleased with results and will try to duplicate.

Also tried a 5% sugar version at the behest of neighbor who said would like a sweeter taste... I think either the LBE was cranked to kill setting or maybe just that much sugar is too much for a hot stone... poof charcoal on the edge.

Actually pleased to have gotten a light crunch and puffy crust the last few bakes regardless of a few chars.