Author Topic: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake  (Read 2339 times)

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Offline pythonic

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1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« on: October 04, 2012, 01:32:59 AM »
Ok so I got around to making Scott123's current formulation found here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

I wanted to share some pics and ask some questions.  See below for pics and questions.

I kneaded the dough my KA mixer for roughly 3 mins.  I was wondering if this is the cottage cheese texture that I'm shooting for?


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Offline pythonic

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 01:37:54 AM »
In Scott123's link he says that the dough could be fully fermented anywhere between 1-3 days depending on how cold your fridge is.  I took some pics after 24hrs and wanted to know how my dough is looking at this stage.  I went ahead and baked this 24hr dough as well just to test it out.
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Offline pythonic

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2012, 01:39:33 AM »
And finally here are the pics of the baked pizza.  Preheated stone at 550 for 45mins.  Baked for 5:30.  My 48hr doughball will be baked tomorrow.

Nate

« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 01:51:07 AM by pythonic »
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Offline Ev

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 08:43:01 AM »
Some will say that you need more heat, a different cooking surface, more time in the oven or a blast blast under the broiler. I think it looks great the way it is. Some prefer crispy crunchy pizza. I prefer soft and tender, which your pie looks like it is.  8)

scott123

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 04:11:00 PM »
Nate, I probably should have mentioned that my recipe is based entirely on an oven setup that will produce a four minute bake time.

That being said, it looks like a really good pie.

Did you blend the AT with AP or is this 100% AT?

Based upon your photo, I might knead an AT dough a little bit less, but it really all boils down to the texture of the crust.  How was the texture? Was it to your liking?  If so, then that's the appearance to shoot for when kneading.  If it was too chewy, then you're going to want to dial it back.

As far as the appearance of the 24 hour ferment, I might take it a tiny bit further.  The 48 hour dough should be exactly where you want to take it.

I'm curious, this is a smaller dough ball then my recipe, correct? When you scaled it down, did you match my thickness factor?

While I think you could definitely benefit from a stone that will give you a 4 minute bake, the undercrust color you're getting at 5:30 is pretty nice. A little more broiling and/or a closer position to the broiler should help quite a bit.

Offline pythonic

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 04:59:08 PM »
Scott,

Yes this was the blend of AP and AT.  The texture of the 24hr doughball was soft and just a little chewy on the inside and outside.  The texture I prefer is medium crisp on the outside and soft with a little chew on the inside.  For this formulation I cut your recipe by 1/3 since I do not have a stone that can handle 16 inch pizzas.  My finished doughballs weighed approx. 14oz, 11oz and 9oz.  I really do not pay attention to the thickness factor and just kind of wing it.  I do like it pretty thin though.  This pie was baked on the 2nd to bottom rack.

My 48hr dough ball that I baked this afternoon I placed the stone all the way at the top and super heated for 15 mins with the broiler after 30 mins at 550.  I baked this one for 5 mins.  I think it could have possibly been pulled at 4:30 though as the crust was a little more chewy than I wanted.  But at least I got some good browning this time.  This is only my 2nd time baking at the top of my oven.

Nate






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scott123

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 06:09:08 PM »
That's looking great, Nate.

The texture relates less to the bake time and more to the additional gluten formation from an extra 24 hour ferment. If it is a little chewy, then dial back the kneading next time, perhaps not by reducing the time (3 minutes is pretty short), but by slowing down the mixer a bit.

The thickness factor will effect chewiness as well.  A dough that's chewy at one thickness factor will be less chewy with a thinner crust. For the sake of consistency, I highly recommend not winging dough ball weights. Varying the thickness factor can dramatically change the nature of a pizza.

Offline slybarman

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2012, 06:23:48 PM »
That second pie looks nice. You had better results at the top of the oven then I have been able to get so far.

Offline pythonic

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2012, 08:04:04 PM »
I made the last one for dinner tonight (this was the only one that I reballed).  I baked it for 4:30.  Results were very different than previous 5:00 bake.  Didn't brown as much but that is a given.  It was super tender inside and super airy and lite.  The outside of the end crust didn't crisp up quite as much as I like.

What does the reballing achieve?  Just add more bubbles to the dough and change the texture?

I'm currently not measuring my opened skins and this is why I haven't been using the TF.  I also happen to like a bigger end crust then ny style dictates so the TF may be a little different for my pies.  

Nate
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 08:06:48 PM by pythonic »
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scott123

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 09:01:26 PM »
Re-balling, from my experience, seems to provide a little more oven spring in the finished product.


Offline pythonic

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2012, 11:04:45 AM »
Made another batch of dough this morning.  Gonna try some 72hr ferments and see how those go.
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Offline slybarman

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2012, 11:19:53 AM »
Re-balling, from my experience, seems to provide a little more oven spring in the finished product.

Hmmm - I may need to try that myself. More spring is a good thing.

scott123

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2012, 12:05:14 PM »
Hmmm - I may need to try that myself. More spring is a good thing.

Because it's not traditional, I was pretty anti-reballing until Fazzari posted pretty definitive proof that reballs help oven spring.

Offline Don K

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2012, 12:35:21 PM »
Because it's not traditional, I was pretty anti-reballing until Fazzari posted pretty definitive proof that reballs help oven spring.
I was just reading through Fazzari's thread the other day and was thinking about trying reballing myself. Using AT bromated, what do you think is the optimum fermentation/reball schedule?
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scott123

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2012, 12:45:49 PM »
I was just reading through Fazzari's thread the other day and was thinking about trying reballing myself. Using AT bromated, what do you think is the optimum fermentation/reball schedule?

Don, I like my cold 24 hr/reball/cold 24 hr/ room 3 hr temper/bake schedule, but that's with a lower protein bromated flour.  A re-ball anywhere during the fermentation schedule is going to develop a substantial amount of gluten, imo, and may end up producing a tough 100% AT crust. For an AT/AP blend, though, I think 24/ball/24 is ideal.  It's enough pre-ball time to develop a good dose of CO2 and more than enough post ball time to ensure that the skin doesn't fight you.

One thing that I should mention is that, at some point, I will most likely change my 24/reball/24 into a 24 bulk/24 balled, which is the same premise, but will hopefully be less labor, as cleaning out the containers during reballing is a hassle.

Offline pythonic

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2012, 02:26:39 PM »
In my experience with one of Fazzari's formulations (my go to recipe for the last 9 months) the reball not only adds more spring but it also changes the texture as well (especially the bottom crust).  A reballed pie is night and day from one that isn't.  I was reballing 6 hrs before and it worked great.
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Offline slybarman

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2012, 02:39:55 PM »
If Don or anyone else tries to reball 100% AT, please post the result. My curiosity is piqued.

Offline Don K

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2012, 01:36:36 AM »
Thanks Scott. I am going to start with a batch this weekend with 100% AT bromated and 24/RB/24. It may end up too tough as you say Scott but I guess I'll find that out soon enough. I like experimenting.
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Offline pythonic

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2012, 11:14:49 AM »
Here was the super airy and tender one after 48hr cold rise.


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Offline Don K

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Re: 1st All Trumps Bromated Bake
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2012, 11:42:51 AM »
Here was the super airy and tender one after 48hr cold rise.
That looks mighty good! Was this an AT/AP mix?


I never got around to making my dough over the weekend. I'm going to shoot for Wednesday for pies this weekend.
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