Author Topic: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone  (Read 1909 times)

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Offline getchai

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countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« on: October 06, 2012, 11:03:08 PM »
I'm in the very early stages of planning to open a food truck. I'm currently cooking in a countertop oven with a stone. I want to buy a countertop commercial oven that will be very similar to the oven that will be in my truck. I do not know specifically what model oven will be in my truck, but it will be a stone oven. I want to have an oven at home to perfect my recipe on, and become familiar with how the oven works (i.e. dual temperature control). I'm looking to spend around $600. At the moment the best candidate seems to be the Bakers Pride PX14. I will be using a 120V outlet. Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions on an oven?


Offline barryvabeach

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 09:37:06 PM »
If you do a search here you will find some info on the Bakers Pride px14 and px16.  Neither comes with a stone, AFAIK.  I modified by px14 to fit a stone ( by cutting one down to size, then putting slots in either side so it would ride on the channel that is designed for the wire rack).  If you do that, you will have to make a door, which I did as well, because the wire rack won't fit iin.  I have not tried the PX16, but I think that would be a good choice, since the px14 doesn't give you much room.  The problem with 120 volt countertops, is that you are limited to 1800 watts.  The smaller the size of the oven the better since you are limited in watts.  I also modified a super peel to work with the PX14, because the headroom was minimal. This link has my results with the PX14, which I sold a while ago, I am not a fan of 12 inch pizzas.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15947.0.html

scott123

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 05:00:09 AM »
Getchai, it really boils down to what style of pizza you're planning on selling, how long you're willing to bake it for, and how long you're willing to wait between pies.  According to my estimates, I'd expect one Chicago thin crust from the PX14 every 20 minutes- 13 minutes to bake, 7 minutes to recover.  Barry, what do you think? Does this sound about right?

For NY style, I think you could see a similar turnaround, the only difference being that a 13 minute chicago thin crust might be okay, while a 13 minute NY style pie is pretty bad. You could add a thick stone and trim the bake time a bit, and you'd get less of a wait between the 2nd and 3rd pie, but eventually the stone would be exhausted and you'd have to give it a long time to recover.

I'm not an expert when it comes to Greek style, but I still think 13 minutes would produce a pretty mediocre pie.

In a commercial setting, I don't think three 13" pizzas (of questionable quality) an hour (in the PX14) is going to be very profitable. Other than for rewarming, I don't think the PX14 can cut it.  For that matter, I don't think any sub $600 oven can cut it.  Barry just bought a Chinese oven for $350 which might be able to produce a semi respectable NY bake time, but it's 220 V, it's entirely unproven, and, without modifications, will most likely have issues with volume.  Home ovens generally can't produce commercial volume, and these countertops have a fraction of the power of home ovens.

For tinkerers like Barry, countertops can be a fun challenge. For any kind of commercial setting, though, they're a recipe for failure.

Offline getchai

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 03:33:01 PM »
Thank you Barry and Scott. It appears my first post was not explained well enough. I want to buy an oven that will be similar to the oven that will be on the truck (which will be more like a >$5,000 bakers pride oven). I do not expect to use this countertop oven in an type of commercial setting. Only at home, for practice.

Barry, thank you I did not know that the PX models were simply coils. I missed that somehow. This is starting to sound less and less like a good idea.

Perhaps there is not a good solution for what I am asking. Maybe I should continue as is with my countertop oven and stone...

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 06:14:34 PM »
I don't think there are any high temp single deck countertop models that come with stones, to get stones you have to get the 2 deck models offered by Bakers Pride, Blodgett, APW Wyott and many others.  Most of the single deck ovens, like the Nemco, Wisco, Fusion, Star, and the Bakers Pride PX models have a handle that sticks straight out, which is connected to a thin piece of metal, and the other side of that metal is a wire rack.  As such, when you draw back the handle, the "door" and the wire rack retract. Some users have put a stone on the rack, but that is not original equipment.  There are a number of makers of 2 deck single door ovens, Bakers Pride is just one,  and I have one of those as well - I have the MO2T, which has been replaced by the P18S.  It comes with stones which Scott describes as woefully thin, but it does have stones, and usually you get an actual insulated door that opens and closes, and better insulation all around.  My suggestion is that you go that route.  While they are very under powered in the 120 volt configuration, you can get them very hot -  I had no trouble getting a stone temp of 700 in mine.  While you do not have control of the top element directly,  you can either wire a switch to the bottom element, or what I did was set the temp a little below max, then turn it up to max a minute or two before you load the pie.  The bottom element is pretty weak so it won't increase the temp much, but you can then get the top element in play.  Assuming you are using this for test purposes, it should work pretty well, you will need time to recover from each heat, but since you aren't on a production schedule it will work - you should be able to load one pie in the top deck and one pie in the bottom deck, then once they are done, give it time to recover.  Your best result, and what Scott suggested, would be to prop up the original stone an inch our so above the deck to get the pie closer to the top element.    I added another 1 inch corderite stone, which greatly prolonged heat up times, and recovery times as well, so just using steel spacers under the stone would probably be better.  My earlier post on this model is here.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16602.0.html   You should be able to get a used 2 deck oven in the $300 to $500 price range.  If your $5,000 oven is a big oven, you will appreciate the over 17 inch wide stones on the BP 18S.  You said you have a countertop oven with a stone now - okay I"ll bite - what do you have?   ( Scott is laughing now saying I can't stop my fascination with these countertops , but he hasn't tasted a pie out of my  Viking dual fuel range which tops out at a whopping 500 degrees )  
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:16:38 PM by barryvabeach »

Offline getchai

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 11:44:22 PM »
Thank you for the info Barry. I am looking into your post and the ovens mentioned.

My countertop oven is nothing special, quoting from another post of mine http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,19156.0.html:

Quote
The oven I am using is a Cusinart TOB-195. The only oven I could find that goes up to 500*F. http://www.amazon.com/Cuisinart-TOB-195-Toaster-Broiler-Stainless/dp/B000PYF768/?tag=pizzamaking-20

The pizza stone I am using is an Emile Henry Pizza Stone. I had a Williams-Sonoma giftcard... I have the 10inch model. http://www.emilehenryusa.com/Pizza-Stone-Figue-plu377514.html

The stone heats up to ~570 degrees

scott123

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 12:49:04 AM »
Scott is laughing now saying I can't stop my fascination with these countertops , but he hasn't tasted a pie out of my  Viking dual fuel range which tops out at a whopping 500 degrees

Barry, the best pizza I've ever made was in a high end 500 deg. gas oven using a soapstone slab and the oven's convection feature. I was able to hit 515 on the stone, and, with convection, a 5 minute bake time.  I can almost guarantee you that your Viking will hit 525 on the hearth, which will allow you to get 4 minute bakes with 1/2" steel plate.

Using bromated white flour and a thickness factor of .075", the pizzas you make with your Viking oven and steel will be the best you've ever had, guaranteed.

scott123

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 12:51:13 AM »
Getchai, that Cuisinart oven is only 1500 watts, which, for pizza, is pretty much worthless.

Do you own a traditional oven?

Offline getchai

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Re: countertop oven suggestions? dual temp, stone
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 11:16:24 AM »
Scott, I do but not one that can be used for pizzas. The Cusiniart is not ideal but it does get the job done more or less. This is a pizza I made a few days ago. I didn't take a pic of the bottom but it was very brown (overcooked black in a few spots).  It tasted good.


 

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