Author Topic: Rolling Flame  (Read 2305 times)

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Offline vincentoc13

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Rolling Flame
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:56:48 PM »
OK, these are my first pictures I have sent over since I've joined.  I have looked at so many videos where people have these big rolling flames going across there dome.  When I try this the floor temp gets way to hot and the bottoms of my pizza will burn to quick.  Any one have any suggestions how I can get the flame larger without burning the pizza?




Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 09:04:13 AM »
Flour/workflow/proofing regime?  Lots of variables.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 09:29:05 AM »
OK, these are my first pictures I have sent over since I've joined.  I have looked at so many videos where people have these big rolling flames going across there dome.  When I try this the floor temp gets way to hot and the bottoms of my pizza will burn to quick.  Any one have any suggestions how I can get the flame larger without burning the pizza?

You might need to "dome" you pizza for part of the bake. Using your turning peel, peek under the pie every few seconds or as you turn it. Once it is at the proper level of doneness, use the turning peel to lift your pie off the floor and finish it in the air. The higher you lift it, the faster it will bake.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 08:55:09 PM »
OK, thanks guys it all helps

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 09:22:13 PM »
IT sounds to me like the oven is out of balance or maybe you are not burning long enough.  The floor is the hardest to heat, try scooping up coals and flipping them over to get the ash out from under them and maybe even partially dooring the oven off for 10-15 minutes after you move the fire but before you cook.  Do not door it off tightly with wood in the oven though, unless you are going to leave it for the night (explosion hazard).

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 09:34:40 PM »
Hi there,

What type of oven do you have. What it the floor and dome material thickness. What is the distance from the floor to the dome?

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 10:02:47 PM »
I have a Forno Bravo Toscano 90.  The hearth is 36 inches wide and from hearth to dome at its highest point is 14 inches, not sure how thick the insulation is though.  all the black soot will clear in about two hours, but it seems to take a long time to get the hearth to settle down.  The dome dosen't seem to hold heat as well, but if I have flames going over the top it just heats up the heath too quick.  very frustrating.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 10:18:19 PM »
Do you heat up in the middle then move to side and cook? if so try heat up for 45 min middle then next hr on the side with smaller fire ? I  feel (just my opinion) you need some flame for proper cooking but not an inferno !  do you have infrared gun ? try to monitor it and see when it gets out of control or what floor temp is when you start. First few are always a challenge as  no heat has been sucked out of the hearth yet. also Flour burns do you have a lot of bench flour going on ?
John
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 10:42:27 PM »
The only reason you need a fire is for light and continuous operation if it is fully fired. For 1-8 pizzas, you don't need any fire at all.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 10:57:54 PM »
The only reason you need a fire is for light and continuous operation if it is fully fired. For 1-8 pizzas, you don't need any fire at all.

I disagree.
Pizza is not bread.


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 11:04:00 PM »
Says the man who fires that sucker for 10 hours.  Have you ever tried it?

Offline ccgus

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2012, 12:08:06 AM »
Says the man who fires that sucker for 10 hours.  Have you ever tried it?

I've got a FB Casa 2G90 which has almost the same dimensions as the Toscano 90, and I've tried cooking without a fire.  It's possible, but in my experience it's not nearly as nice as cooking with flames going along the top.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2012, 01:01:07 AM »
If you want to achieve the prominent micro leoparding around the rim, you definitely need a pretty large flame during the actual bake.  Without the flame, you will get a very subtle leoparding without the micro blisters (assuming your dough is not defective).  The rim will also tend to color more evenly and hide any leoparding if baked with minimal or no flames at all. 

When the bottom burns, how hot exactly is the oven floor?  I would suggest you start baking when the floor hits around 750-800F and build a large fire.  You should have a pretty good window where the dough should not burn at the bottom while at the same time giving your dough enough top heat. 






Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2012, 08:06:00 AM »
Says the man who fires that sucker for 10 hours.  Have you ever tried it?

Yes, too many times. Not on purpose. I'll be about to launch a pie and I'll see the fire has died down. The difference is significant. Not so much in the eating qualities, but in the appearance.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline weemis

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2012, 08:29:52 AM »
I ran into the bottom burning problem when I began. The issue was not giving the floor enough time to cool down after initially heating the oven. After the dome is nearly to temp, push the fire to the side and don't cook until the floor temp is where you want it to be... maybe 45 minutes. Do you have an IR thermometer? What temp is your floor when your pizza is burning?
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2012, 04:03:19 PM »
I agree with John  and Weemis,

Take the time to heat-up you oven properly. I recommend to start the fire in the front and then move it to the middle of the oven. Every 20 to 30 minutes, move you fire from left, to right, to the back of the oven, ... so you dome and floor is heated evenly. Most importantly, try to always have some nice embers spread over the entire floor during the heating time.
Once you oven dome is entirely white and as hot as you want it, then move the fire to the side. Give it anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes to cool down a little and the floor temp to even out.
Then just keep a small to medium flame to help with the coloring of the top of the pizza.

Good luck,

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2012, 07:41:47 PM »
Yes, I have an IR thermometer.  the hearth is between 750 and 800F. One area of concern is when I bought the oven there was a gap where the dome pieces come together at the very top, its approximately 1 1/2 inch gap.  I'm just wondering if I'm  loosing heat in that little gap and its not letting the dome retain its heat.  when the hearth is at, lets say 750F the dome will drop from 999F to 850 pretty quick, then I will add more wood to the oven and the hearth will heat up to over 800F real quick.  next time I will try to let it settle down alot more before try to use it.

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2012, 08:41:38 PM »
the dome will drop from 999F to 850 pretty quick, then I will add more wood to the oven and the hearth will heat up to over 800F real quick.  next time I will try to let it settle down alot more before try to use it.
That doesn't make sense, the dome should drop temperature like that. Since the heat rises, the floor should cool much faster than the dome.
The 1"1/2 gap shouldn't be a problem as part of the cooking process is the refractory material radiating back the heat. It would only drop the temperature like that if it wasn't properly insulated. But you may be right, that gap in the dome may be an issue. Did you assemble it yourself or was it per-assembled? Is it still under warranty?

Antoine
WFO cooking is about passion.

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2012, 09:09:10 PM »
I bought the oven from Forno Bravo at there head quarters in Marina CA fully assembled.  I live in Orange County which is about 5 hrs away.  At the time of purchase I asked about the gap and they said it would be OK, well after curing the oven the gap widened a bit.  even if they said I could return the oven, due to logistics of oven in my backyard and after renting a trailer and forklift to remove it from under my patio it just wouldn't be worth it (whew).  But I have faith in you guys, theres alot of good advice from this site.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Rolling Flame
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2012, 10:39:19 PM »
picture of the forno gap please and I will match it and raise you a 1/2 inch  :P
John
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