Author Topic: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?  (Read 1349 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« on: November 08, 2012, 12:10:44 AM »
Say you made two otherwise identical traditional NY doughs - one with bromated flour and one with an otherwise identical plain flour. What would be the differences in the baked crust? Assume 550F home oven.

Same question with a Sicilian dough?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 12:25:31 AM »
Say you made two otherwise identical traditional NY doughs - one with bromated flour and one with an otherwise identical plain flour. What would be the differences in the baked crust? Assume 550F home oven.

Same question with a Sicilian dough?
Well, on the NY dough, according to Scott123 if you don't use the bromated then the difference would be whether or not you get taken out back behind the shed for a 'lil "education"
Seriously though, in my limited experience...the bromated and bleached gives the crust a better snap/crunch while maintaining tenderness and also gives a little more brown color. I think it's gluten is stiffer even if it's against a comparable protein flour. Stretch's better...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 12:28:44 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 12:41:54 AM »
I know the theory. I'm hoping to hear from some folks with hands-on experience.
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Offline Don K

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 12:51:25 AM »

Seriously though, in my limited experience...the bromated and bleached gives the crust a better snap/crunch while maintaining tenderness and also gives a little more brown color. I think it's gluten is stiffer even if it's against a comparable protein flour. Stretch's better...
"In my limited experience"  means I am trying to answer your question with "hands on experience"...not just theory.  ;)

All Trumps is the only product I've used so far and it really did bring things up a level...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 12:54:58 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Offline fazzari

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Re: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 01:23:29 AM »
I'm still trying to figure this out myself with continuing experiments....but, I can say, the bromated doughs are definitely stronger, and have more oven spring...when compared to the exact same dough without bromate.  As the dough ages though, the unbromated doughs can be physically manipulated (reballs) to equal the strength and oven spring of the bromated ones.  As for my cracker crusts, I can get almost 5 days on a crust with excellent quality.  This week I am going to compare the all trumps bromated flour with the king kaiser flour (same flour except it has ascorbic acid instead of bromates).  As you probably know, the ascorbic acid is added as a conditioner in place of the more controversial bromates....and I want to see the difference.

John

Online norma427

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Re: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 07:29:23 AM »
Say you made two otherwise identical traditional NY doughs - one with bromated flour and one with an otherwise identical plain flour. What would be the differences in the baked crust? Assume 550F home oven.

Same question with a Sicilian dough?

Craig,

I am still trying to find the answer if using a bromated flour versus a non bromated one is better or not for a NY style pizza or Sicilian pizzas.  I have used KASL, Better for Bread, others non bromated flours and also tried many bromated flours and countless experiments and sure haven‘t found the answer to your question. 

I really think that the formulation helps, methods of preparing the dough, hydration, and many other variables contribute to how the final pizzas will turn out.  I have tried from hot heat to lower heats.  I have also tried my regular home oven, Steve’s WFO, my deck oven and my modified BBQ grill.

Let us know if you ever get to the bottom of your question because I sure would like to know the answer.  :-D

Norma
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Offline scott r

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Re: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 09:58:10 AM »
I started experimenting with bromated flours vs non bromated 10 years ago.   I did countless side by sides like what john fazzari is currently doing.     Here is my take.

Bromated flours let you get a dough to the same point of gluten development with a shorter mix time, and give you crusts with more oven spring.   Somehow even though the dough is "stronger" and has better ability to trap air, its also more tender.    Bromate is especially useful if you are doing a thicker pizza thats allowed to rise a bit before baking.   It makes for a lighter fluffier higher rising crust.  

Just like john has mentioned, I have ended up finding ways to manipulate non bromated flour to give me a similar result, but in the end bromate acts like a crutch.   Its more forgiving of under or over mixing.... too much manipulation during balling or shaping, improper proofing regimens etc.     Somehow you can mess all of these things up and still end up with a nice tender crust.  

The only negatives I can think of are that it does make a tighter cell structure in the end product (maybe a positive to some people)   and that at a certain temp it starts to make the pizza too cottony in texture.   That temp is probably around a 725 degree floor and higher, so most people wont even notice a negative unless they have a wfo.    Before those temps even happen another issue comes to play which is that most (maybe all?) bromated flours are malted.  This is why people use unmalted unbromated flours for neapolitan pizza.

My feeling is that every other pizza style (except for neapolitan, and maybe some people with very high temp coal ovens) can benefit from a bromated flour.  Having said all of this... I haven't had a bromated flour in my house in two years since my daughter was born.   Some will say thats overkill, but I have been able to make excellent pizza without it.    

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Bromate vs. not - what is the difference in the final product?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 10:10:56 AM »
Thanks John, Norma, and Scott.
Pizza is not bread.