Author Topic: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?  (Read 2356 times)

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Offline MrPibbs

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Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« on: October 09, 2012, 12:26:18 AM »
I have been following Pete-zza's first post in the Tom Lehman pinned thread, and getting excellent results with the KASL flour.  It's a bit of a hassle ordering a bunch of 3 lb bags from King Arthurs which don't seem to last very long, so wondered if there are other quality high gluten flours that are worth looking for (in terms of price with shipping) for a home user.  I have been ordering sauce and cheese (Grande East Coast blend) from PennMac.com and noticed they have All Trumps and Caputo brands, but I know nothing about them.  If KASL is the best for NY Style, I can gladly stick with it, but thought I would ask to be sure.

Thanks!


scott123

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 12:40:06 AM »
Mr. Pibbs, KASL is NOT the best flour for NY style.

If you live near a Sam's, see if they carry the bromated baker's & chef's high gluten flour. Otherwise, buy Better for Bread flour from your local supermarket, and start looking around for mid high gluten bromated options from local distributors.

Do you live anywhere near a Gordon Food Service?

Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 12:58:17 AM »
Scott, interesting to hear that about the KASL.  Wonder why Pete uses that in his Lehman recipe?

Unfortunately the closest Sam's Club is over an hour away.  I live and work in the Mystic Connecticut (southeastern corner) area.  Have not heard of Gordon Food Service.  I see that "Better For Bread" is a Gold Medal brand which my local Stop & Shop or Walmart may carry.

scott123

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 01:23:20 AM »
Mr. Pibbs, I'm not sure why Peter uses KASL, but it may be because the recipe dates back to 2004, and, at the time, better flour options were not known.

For NY style, better for bread will outperform KASL. There are members of the forum who can do great things with KASL despite it's shortcomings, but there's no reason to go out of your way to find it when better for bread will produce superior results.

Do you know anyone who owns there own business? You shouldn't live far from a Restaurant Depot, which, with a tax id, you can get real pizzeria flour.

Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 01:33:54 AM »
Scott,  I really appreciate your help.  It looks like the closest Restaurant Depot is also an hour away.  Since I'm a home user, I don't mind ordering from a place like PennMac.com which has those All Trumps and Caputo brands if I can't find the Better For Bread at my grocery, and they are better than KASL.

scott123

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 02:23:51 AM »
An hour? That's disappointing.

Better for Bread should be easy enough to find.  While you're using that, though, I'd start calling pizzerias and bakeries and seeing if any of them will sell you flour. Most will say no, but one might say yes.  Flour really doesn't last that long and I don't trust the turnover at PennMac.  It's also, imo, kind of ridiculous to pay as much for shipping as you are for the flour. Lastly, All Trumps is good, but something a little lower protein, like Spring King or Full Strength, would be better. Call some pizzerias.

Online norma427

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 06:59:51 AM »
MrPibbs,

I also had used KASL for a few years and did like it for a NY style pizza.  I know of a new pizzeria in Philly that also uses KASL and their pizzas are fantastic.

Right now I am using Kyrol flour that is something like All Trumps.  It also produces a decent NY style pizza.  Kyrol flour and All Trumps are both bromated flours, while KASL isnít. 

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 08:36:37 AM »
Scott, interesting to hear that about the KASL.  Wonder why Pete uses that in his Lehman recipe?

MrPibbs,

Back in 2004, when I volunteered to try to adapt the commercial Lehmann NY style dough recipe to a home setting, I did not know a whole lot about flours. All I really knew was that Tom Lehmann advocated using a pizza flour with a protein content of 13.5% to 14% protein or higher. At the time, I was well aware of the King Arthur Sir Lancelot (KASL) flour and that its protein content was 14.2%. And, through a tip from another member on the forum, I learned that I could purchase a 50-pound bag of that flour from Dawn Foods, just outside of Dallas, on a cash and carry basis. So, that is how I ended up with the KASL. I eventually used up that bag of flour but did not purchase another bag because it was too much flour for me to use in a reasonable time period before the flour would go stale. Also, where I live in Texas, where the summers are long and hot, the flours I buy are prone to insect infestation. After I finished up the 50-pound bag of KASL, at the suggestion of member scott r, who is one of the most respected and capable members on this forum, I switched to the King Arthur bread flour (KABF). My recollection is that scott r said that he actually preferred using bread flour for the NY style. So, as much as I liked the KASL, I switched to the KABF. To this day, I use mainly the KABF and also the King Arthur all-purpose flour (KAAP) for my pizzas, although sometimes I will use the Better for Bread flour or some other flour that I might find when I travel outside of Texas. I could purchase the KASL from King Arthur itself, but the high final cost after shipping charges strikes me as being unreasonable. 

I tend to agree with scott123 that a flour with a protein content of around 13% or so is perhaps a better choice for the NY style. I personally have no objection to anyone using a bromated flour. I believe that is a personal decision. If one is looking for a worthy unbromated, unbleached substitute for the KASL for the NY style, I would perhaps suggest the Pendleton Power flour even though I have never personally tried that flour. However, that flour is not one that can be readily found at retail outside of California. But those members who have tried the Pendleton Power flour and reported on their results on the forum seem to like it a lot.

Peter

Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 05:54:16 PM »
Now I understand all this a lot more.  I have the disadvantage as a new member of not knowing so many things, but getting feedback to such simple questions is really great.  When I finish my last two 3 lb bags of KASL, I will look forward to using the others mentioned above.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 06:32:03 PM »
Walmart has better for bread.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 01:26:36 PM »
Wanted to report back on my impressions.

I did buy 5 lbs of All Trumps unbleached/unbromated, 5 lbs of Caputo with my last order of East Coast Grande Mozzarella.  Also bought some of the Better For Bread that Scott recommended.

So far have used the All Trumps twice and Better for Bread one time.  I do like both better than KASL with a 3 day cold ferment, but it's not a huge difference. (Remember I'm still pretty inexperienced here).   Both stretch out easier, and have a chewier texture using Pete's first post in the Tom Lehman recipe.

Any reason I should continue tweaking or trying new ingredients if this is working?  I ask because I know that I don't know what I don't know.   :-[

Offline scott r

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 02:05:21 PM »
in my experience, the unbleached/unbromated all trumps is pretty much the same as KASL.    Better for bread should be less chewy?       

Offline Chet

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2012, 09:57:51 PM »


  Just a note! If you live by a Price Chopper, a local one here NEPA had skids of flour in their baking department which was visible by the shoppers, I just ask if they would sell me a 50lb bag of their "Commander" flour, I purchased it there 2 miles from home


   Chet

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2012, 08:36:20 AM »
I've been using Conagra Mello Judith for about a year now and I really like it.  I buy it at Restaurant Depot (owned by Jetro).  I decided to try it because it's the flour they use at my favorite pizzeria, Mozza.  It's a prettty strong flour with very good flavor. And pretty affordable in the 50 lb. bag. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline ZekeTheCat

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Re: Any worthy equivalents to KASL ?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2012, 10:02:50 AM »
You might try Bay State Milling Co in Massachusetts for pizza flours:

http://www.bsm.com/Products/ProductInformation/Bay%20State%20Pizza%20Expertise%20Brochure.pdf

I've used their high gluten Bouncer flour, in the past with good results . Gordon Food Service (GFS) here in the midwest carries it in 25# bags. It's about 14% protein content. I would still use it if it were not brominated but I'm concerned about possible heath issues with bromination and switched to KA AP or BF which I can get locally in most grocery stores.


 

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