Author Topic: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand  (Read 7093 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2012, 11:49:43 AM »
paolo, what are you paying for caputo? it costs me 30.26.

When I get it here - and the only way is to ask a restaurant to order it for me - it costs $45/bag from the distributor.
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Offline weemis

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2012, 12:40:06 PM »
I got it priced for $55 for 55 lbs from a specialty italian store. Haven't bought it yet, as other flours are half the price and produce really good results.
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 12:54:23 PM »
I'm not so sure about that....maybe it has just continued to rise more than the other and is taking up a larger area of the bowl.
It does sorta look like Paolo did the 'ol switch er roo on us.  ;D

No switch er roo......  The flours remained in the same exact location as last night......

Paolo

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2012, 12:58:36 PM »
In the first pic I would have picked the left one to be caputo based on the color of the dough, but Now I see that it is just the lighting.  Based on the 2nd pic, I'd say the right is the caputo based on the look and fermentation.  But there could be several reasonings to why one dough would ferment just a bit quicker.  Slightly diff amounts of yeast, one flour being slightly weaker than the other, gluten strength based on hydration and mixing, one ball being closer to the ice source in the cooler, etc.  

The amount of ingredients were exactly the same.  I have a scale that weights to .01 grams and that is what I used for the salt and yeast....

Both were kneeded the same amount of time in the mixer and identically slapped and folded....

Both placed in identical bowls, and bulking in the same exact location and temp.

Also both in basement, so there is no source of ice......
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 01:00:34 PM by Mangia Pizza »
Paolo

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2012, 12:59:47 PM »
paolo, what are you paying for caputo? it costs me 30.26.I'm assuming you cannot find it and are adding shipping to your costs. looking forward to you test results. my guess is they will be very close.

Amazon for about $80..... I wish I could buy it at $31....
Paolo

Offline Ev

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2012, 03:37:00 PM »
I pay 59 locally.  >:(  Too high but it's the only source I have. :'(

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2012, 05:04:06 PM »
Progression of bulk fermentation a few hours before balling.....

One of the mixes looks more runny.....

Paolo

scott123

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2012, 05:25:14 PM »
Okay, final answer  ;D

RD on the left.

My reasoning is that the RD has a lower falling number. Cheaper flours tend to be made from inferior wheat that wasn't harvested as conscientiously and thus has moved further along the sprouting process and has higher enzyme activity. This would explain the tighter appearance before and the slacker appearance now- the higher enzyme activity is driving faster fermentation.

Offline pizzaboyfan

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2012, 05:42:13 PM »
55 # Caputo is 39.95 from PennMac
 + shipping from Pittsburgh, Pa

Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2012, 06:09:33 PM »
This is generating good conversations regarding the capability of different flours. Before balling tonight I will disclose which side the caputo resides.
The other thoughts?
Paolo


Online Pete-zza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2012, 06:12:26 PM »
Paolo,

Can you describe the characteristics of the bulk dough before you ball it? For example, is it light and airy or firm to the touch, etc. Can you estimate the volume of expansion?

Thanks.

Peter

Offline JConk007

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2012, 06:16:58 PM »
I have posted the results of this Battle or at least results for the RD Supremo Italiano here on the forum previously back in 2011so I will keep my mouth shut . :-X This was pre Flirting with Fire  and this was my very first gig getting paid to make pizza ! http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13198.0.html 
Back to the flour. its Amazing how good the RD  is, is all I will say. If its all I had access to I would have no problem using it all the time !
 The  Difference in price between the 2 flours at consumer level Rest. Depot and Cash and Carry is around $6 for 55lbs Rest Depot is $28 and caputo is $34 Friday only  at E&S foods.
 I get Caputo  for$30 bucks a sack from a great guy who ownes a super Neapolitan joint here in Ridgewood NJ. "consistency is king"
John

John
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 06:28:46 PM by JConk007 »
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2012, 07:29:21 PM »
Okay, final answer  ;D

RD on the left.

My reasoning is that the RD has a lower falling number. Cheaper flours tend to be made from inferior wheat that wasn't harvested as conscientiously and thus has moved further along the sprouting process and has higher enzyme activity. This would explain the tighter appearance before and the slacker appearance now- the higher enzyme activity is driving faster fermentation.
I've decided I'll move all my chips over to the explanation Scott has given. The expedited fermentation process he proposes for the "cheaper" cut of wheat, stemming from it's inherent increased enzyme activity just sounds correct to me.
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Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2012, 11:51:12 PM »
Paolo,

Can you describe the characteristics of the bulk dough before you ball it? For example, is it light and airy or firm to the touch, etc. Can you estimate the volume of expansion?

Thanks.

Peter

The dough on the left was light, airy and seemed much wetter than the one on the right.  The one on the right felt more firm and dry, in fact after balling them the left dough balls widened, (pancake effect) while the right ones stayed tighter..... Volume of expansion?  Sorry, I am not that sophisticated......

Without any further wait......

The dough on the left  of the pictures was RD brand, the right was Caputo.......  Congrats to those who answered correctly.....

Next we'll see how they perform in the oven......
Paolo

Online Pete-zza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2012, 07:37:11 AM »
Paolo,

Thank you for the description of the two doughs. Now the fun part begins. I'd like to see if the dough balls make it through another 24 hours of room temperature fermentation at 65 degrees F. If you see that the dough balls ferment too fast and want to flatten out too much, you might want to use the refrigerator to slow down the fermentation process.

Peter

scott123

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2012, 09:36:43 AM »
If my theory about enzyme activity is correct, the RD balls should bake up with a slightly more knobby/toothy appearance.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2012, 10:15:37 AM »
If my theory about enzyme activity is correct, the RD balls should bake up with a slightly more knobby/toothy appearance.

As well as being (slightly) harder to stretch without tearing.  It's not AP after all.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2012, 11:47:44 AM »
If my theory about enzyme activity is correct, the RD balls should bake up with a slightly more knobby/toothy appearance.

scott123,

Can you point me to a photo that shows what a pizza with a knobby/toothy appearance looks like?

Peter

scott123

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2012, 12:23:49 PM »
Peter, this isn't the perfect example, but you can see plenty of knobbiness in Chau's early pies:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10471.msg92703.html#msg92703

The one characteristic of toothiness that's not quite so pronounced in these pictures is the translucent quality you'll sometimes see on the bumps from the thinning gluten.

I'm not necessarily considering this a fault, btw.  Some might describe this knobby quality as having more character.  John Conklin makes some beautiful pies where the gluten is thinning in parts.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: New experiment.... Caputo VS Restaurant Depot Brand
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2012, 12:32:56 PM »
scott123,

Thanks. That helps.

What characteristics of the dough do you see that leads to the knobbiness conclusion you mentioned? Is it the breakdown of the gluten matrix, or maybe overfermentation of the dough, or maybe something else?

Peter


 

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