Shakeys my latest part in the bag

[Mad_Ernie]

Dan:

I saw NO blistering on my pizza from this Shakey's.  If I recall correctly, when I ate at the one in Oroville in March there was some minimal blistering, but again, they use a Blodgett deck oven and not a conveyor oven.  I detected no cornmeal.  The yellow you see is from the lighting in the restaurant.  Hard to filter that completely out.  I toned it down a little.  Really, this pizza was not a cracker crust and really had minimal crunch to it, as well.  Again, overall a good experience but not a great one. 

As an aside, the topic you mentioned previously about former Shakey's employees mentioning the puffiness of the dough might also have something to do with the fat content or type of fat used in the old Shakey's dough recipe.  When I visited the Round Table in Gridley, CA in March of this year, the owner was telling us how they had just switched to a new dough recipe for RT to eliminate fat, per state food recommendations.  I asked him if he noticed any difference in the dough now versus before.  He distinctly told me 2 things: 1) the dough is much puffier now, and 2) it does not last as long.  The first item did not surprise me as much as the second.  I did notice a slight difference in the taste/texture profile compared to what I remembered from my previous visits to RT, but certainly not huge.  In any event, there may have been more tinkering with the dough mix over the decades with Shakey's recipe than we have realized or have been able to capture. 

I notice on the bag ingredients that cottonseed and soybean oils are mentioned.   I am wondering how new or old this bag is.  If Bill (elsegundo) could provide that information, also, it might help me with my assessment of this most recent pizza I consumed.

-ME

[DNA Dan]

ME, All great points. From the looks of the logo on the bag, I would guess it's part of the more recent brand "reinvention". Give or take no more than 10 years old. I'll have to revisit the Mondako formulation with a higher hydration and use my stone in the oven vs. the conveyor.

[elsegundo]

The Shakey's pizza bag is about 5 years old- I think. Time flies.


Bill

[Mad_Ernie]

Thanks, Bill.  I am wondering if the oils are still used in their prepared flour bag now, as I seem to recall one of the owners at the Shakey's in Oroville telling me that they, too, had gone to a no fat dough mix.

Oh, Dan, I tried the Mondako flour today with a Midwestern thin crust recipe that I often use.  It came out okay (no pictures).  Nothing special.  I normally use KA AP flour for that recipe, which is 11.7% protein vs. the 12% Mondako.  I am going to try making an RT clone in the next week or 2 using Lydia's clone recipe and see how that one comes out.  I'll try to remember to take some pics next time.

-ME

[DNA Dan]

Do take photos. That harina preparada mix is interesting here are the ingredients:
ENRICHED BLEACHED FLOUR (BLEACHED WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID), PALM OIL, SALT, LEAVENING (SODIUM ALUMINUM PHOSPHATE, SODIUM BICARBONATE, MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE), CORN SYRUP SOLIDS, DOUGH CONDITIONER PRODUCT (WHEY, L-CYSTEINE MONOHYDROCHLORIDE), DEXTROSE, CALCIUM CARBONATE.

CONTAINS WHEAT AND MILK INGREDIENTS. 

Right off I see there is Palm oil, Sodium Bicarbonate (Aka Baking soda), Corn Syrup solids? and a dough conditioner. These are all different from the RT and Shakey's bags. I'll have to revisit that recipe and see how much of this is cut into the flour. I have some PZ44, but I don't think that's quite the same. The milk is said to be in there, but I don't see it listed anywhere. Perhaps it's <2% or something? I wonder if it's just NFDM? There's a lot going on in this mix.

[Mad_Ernie]

Do take photos. That harina preparada mix is interesting here are the ingredients:
ENRICHED BLEACHED FLOUR (BLEACHED WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID), PALM OIL, SALT, LEAVENING (SODIUM ALUMINUM PHOSPHATE, SODIUM BICARBONATE, MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE), CORN SYRUP SOLIDS, DOUGH CONDITIONER PRODUCT (WHEY, L-CYSTEINE MONOHYDROCHLORIDE), DEXTROSE, CALCIUM CARBONATE.

CONTAINS WHEAT AND MILK INGREDIENTS. 

There's a lot going on in this mix.

Indeed.  Hopefully I will get to it this next weekend.

-ME

[Zing]

A few notes about these posts:

1. Jet_deck did post a list of ingredients off a bag from a 2011 visit to a Shakey's. I question why malted barley is listed twice, unless it is used as filler for the dough conditioners calcium sulfate and ammonium sulfate. I have read that pizza mix manufacturers ship mix without yeast for a longer shelf life. The weight of Shakey's mix dropped to 24.80 pounds in 2011 (labor laws, maybe?):
"The flour is prepackaged without yeast, with a "shakey's since 1954" badge.  I've got a picture of the label.

The ingredients declaration: enriched bleached wheat flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, ferrous sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid) vegetable shrtening (partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil) sugar, salt, contains less than 2% ammonium sulfate, dextrose, calcium sulfate, malted barley.  Net weight 24.80 pounds"
From:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12688.0.html

2. Ernie wrote at length about the oil/shortening issue in this post:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18418.0.html

3. There was some scuttlebutt on the Shakey's facebook page about Anaheim having user dissatisfaction issues. Shakey's flack promised the complaint would be looked into.

[Lydia]

Thanks a bunch for posting the bag Bill 

Approximately what decade the bag is from? 

[Lydia]

Hi Zing

3. For a long time I have been trying to find out how makers of cake mixes and powdered pizza mixes like Duncan Hines and Martha White blend in the partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil. I was using shortening and cutting it into the flour. I don't think earlier posts mentioned soybean oil.

The shortening (crisco) is blended into the flour until the shortening is in very fine particles coated with the dry mix. The particle size is important and greatly affects texture. I make homemade baking mix this way all the time. It just looks like dry pancake mix. The easiest way is to use a KitchenAid with a whip attachment but I have more control if I use a pastry blender (cutter).

In the case of using either liquid oil or liquid shortening, there are a couple of ways to do this
One way is to chill or freeze the oil until solid or semi solid and incorporate like shortening. All other ingredients should be chilled as well as work bowl and utensils.
The other way is to drip the oil, drop by drop, into the dry mixture while it is being stirred, preferably in a mixer.

Palm oil is naturally a solid fat without any hydrogenation. I can’t recall what temperature its melting point is.

Also keep in mind that, in the industry, there are hard shortening flakes, (typically made of palm) that are meant to be used to develop flakey layers in pastries.

[Lydia]

Thanks a bunch for posting the bag Bill 

Approximately what decade the bag is from? 

Oops... sorry I missed the answer in the thread. It's 5 years old.

[Lydia]

When I make a dry dough, I don't see high activity like this. When I make a wet dough, it doesn't sheet out like the video that Lydia posted from the sheeting done in mexico. Are we looking at two versions of the same thing? I suspect in the past the dough was more wet or the yeast was better because it was added in fresh blocks. Your thoughts?

I can duplicate that cracky edge  in the vid, with my cheater dough and motorized pasta maker. When I fold the dough and don't widen the rollers back one level. I can hear it tax the motor. I think what we are seeing is a lazy dough maker who's going to damage the motor.   I don't recommend it.

My cheater dough as written, is a touch too moist for machine sheeting and requires alot of dusting flour.

Oh also you stated that you didn't catch the milk ingredient in the tortilla mix, it's the whey in the dough conditioner.

Back when I started using it, it had "vegetable shortening (partially hydrogenated soybean and cottonseed oil)" that was changed to "palm oil".

[DNA Dan]

A few notes about these posts:

1. Jet_deck did post a list of ingredients off a bag from a 2011 visit to a Shakey's.From:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12688.0.html

Anyone figure out what that bag is in the fourth photo down in the link provided? I never noticed that before in these photos.

Okay here's what I have, it's a Canadian flour brand called "Monarch". The logo has undergone a redesign since the photo was taken. http://www.usfoods.com/AboutUs/Brands/Monarch.aspx They are now distributed by US foods. I can't quite read the bottom of the bag. Looks like "______ 1000". ?  

The logo was abandoned in February 2012.

[DNA Dan]

Also is that bag above the Monarch Flour some Fleischmann's yeast?? You can see more photos of the yeast here: http://www.mulberrylanefarm.com/eStore/yeast/YST5.php

[DNA Dan]

IT IS! Finally some definitive proof of the yeast being used in the current Shakey's pizza. Unless of course this was just sitting there and being used in a dinner roll or some other bread in the store. Here is a shot of the back of the package. You can see the wording on the right, with spacing matches up perfectly. In fact, to the left of the Monarch bag is another bag of the same yeast sitting sideways showing the nutrition label. This is it!

[Jet_deck]

I have revisited the Warner Robbins, GA location since taking those pictures at Auburn.  They have moved away from the pre-mix bag like shown here with no yeast to a "regular" type flour.  I told M/E or Zing about in a PM.  Maybe they will remember what type is was.  I will try to dig up some pics tonight.

[DNA Dan]

I'm starting to think about what other secrets your photos may reveal. 

[Jet_deck]

I'm starting to think about what other secrets your photos may reveal. 

I had already posted about the trip, but I never put up the dumpster diving efforts.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17513.msg169934.html  I should put the pictures up over there, since that is where they belong.  Give me a couple hours.

[Mad_Ernie]

Do take photos. That harina preparada mix is interesting here are the ingredients:
ENRICHED BLEACHED FLOUR (BLEACHED WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID), PALM OIL, SALT, LEAVENING (SODIUM ALUMINUM PHOSPHATE, SODIUM BICARBONATE, MONOCALCIUM PHOSPHATE), CORN SYRUP SOLIDS, DOUGH CONDITIONER PRODUCT (WHEY, L-CYSTEINE MONOHYDROCHLORIDE), DEXTROSE, CALCIUM CARBONATE.

CONTAINS WHEAT AND MILK INGREDIENTS. 

Right off I see there is Palm oil, Sodium Bicarbonate (Aka Baking soda), Corn Syrup solids? and a dough conditioner. These are all different from the RT and Shakey's bags. I'll have to revisit that recipe and see how much of this is cut into the flour. I have some PZ44, but I don't think that's quite the same. The milk is said to be in there, but I don't see it listed anywhere. Perhaps it's <2% or something? I wonder if it's just NFDM? There's a lot going on in this mix.

I posted results of my latest use of the Mondako flour in the RT thread here, using the recipe created by Lydia with the Harina Preparada:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1911.msg226480.html#msg226480

-ME