Author Topic: Cracker Style for busy shop  (Read 2719 times)

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Offline FredFlin

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Cracker Style for busy shop
« on: October 13, 2012, 03:41:41 AM »
Hi

I've read this forum a lot and see that everyone has their own style / recipe for the cracker pizza. I also know its not a simple thing to get right.

Anyway, what I'm after is a relatively simple recipe that I can use in my quite busy take away store, a recipe that is fairly fool proof that I can hand to my staff and have them repeat day in and out. I'm making batches on 12kg of flour at a time using a mixer and then a roller. Currently my dough process is mix, rise for an hour, use... Simple but not the result I'm looking for.

My crust at the moment is quite bread like, slightly crispy and bubbly but not thin and crispy enough. The trend here seems to be going to the cracker type base and my customers are asking more and more for thin and crispy.

I look forward to your suggestions.

Thanks

Ps I use a wood fired oven
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 03:45:36 AM by FredFlin »


Offline Little Joe

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 08:27:37 AM »
I use 50/50 water and flour with a little bacon grease added. Tt makes a very nice bubbly and crunchy crust.

Offline FredFlin

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2012, 09:26:03 AM »
I use 50/50 water and flour with a little bacon grease added. Tt makes a very nice bubbly and crunchy crust.

That's pretty much where I am at... How long you letting it rise for and room temp or fridge? Fresh yeast or dry yeast?

Thanks

Offline Little Joe

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2012, 06:57:14 PM »
No yeast, just flour, water, bacon grease. I keep it in the fridge with wet towel over it. Dough can be used immediately after being mixed. 

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2012, 03:24:53 PM »
This thread ... http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1311.0.html  is worth reading IMO to assist you with your search.
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Offline FredFlin

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2012, 04:39:58 PM »

Offline ThatsAmore

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2012, 05:18:43 PM »
Who put that pie in my eye ?

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 07:32:59 PM »
I thought it meant:

Ignore
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Wait, I guess it does....

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 07:44:31 PM »
Fred, with that WFO you may need to go yeastless as per Little Joe. What temp are you running the WFO ? Also, post your dough formula.....
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Offline Little Joe

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 12:07:49 AM »
You don't need to add the bacon grease, it just adds a nice flavor. I do add a little salt. I bake on a screen at 600 deg F then to finish it off I pull the screen and slide pie directly on stone for approx 2 min. Also, I do not dock the dough.


Offline FredFlin

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 03:58:13 AM »
My dough recipe is difficult as I am part of a franchise and get a "spice pack" from the franchisor. This is supposed to contain the yeast, salt and whatever else they feel needs to be in there (not sure what). However we have had the same recipe for the last 30 years and I am on a drive to have it improved / modernized. My customers are definitely after thin and crispy where as in the past we have been quite bread like, thin-ish, slightly crispy, slightly bubbly, chewy, and like I said but very bready. Until recently I have been using a 60% hydration and about an hour proofing time. We use cake flour. (Our options are cake or white bread)

In my latest experiment I have gone to a 44% hydration but have continued to use the "mysterious" spice pack head office supplies. I am allowing about a 9 hour proof but am getting the feeling that the longer it proofs the better it will be as it seems it is getting lighter the longer I leave it without loosing the crisp. As part of my drive I have managed to convince head office to look into the 'spice pack' so we know what is in there but this will only happen towards the end of the month. I'm currently doing as much research and testing as I can before my session at the end of the month.

This is my latest IMO (thanks ThatsAmore :D for that) its getting there:

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 09:39:21 AM »
Fred,
Your're asking for help with your dough and you give us a pic of your cheese?  :D
Well, for now I believe the easiest improvement will be to get rid of that cake flour. It's low protein content hinders crumb structure...hence, the hollow blowout I can see on the one slice. You mention you have the option of using "white bread flour", not sure if you mean "all purpose" or actual "bread flour" but either one should give a nice improvement. Have you tried this yet?
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline FredFlin

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 10:00:40 AM »
Hi Chicago Bob

that was a picture of my cracker crust.. hmmm so you're not impressed...  :o

Will give white bread flour a try

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2012, 10:09:29 AM »
Hi Chicago Bob

that was a picture of my cracker crust.. hmmm so you're not impressed...  :o

Will give white bread flour a try
Well, I can't see anything except that blow hole. :)  Have you tried making one of these on a pan yet? I'd like to see this done on a "cutter" pan...with a small 3/8-1/4in. lip on the pan. Dress the pizza all the way up to the lip and bake.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline pythonic

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 09:20:39 PM »
Hi Chicago Bob

that was a picture of my cracker crust.. hmmm so you're not impressed...  :o

Will give white bread flour a try

Cracker crust looks decent.  Any reviews yet?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2012, 05:02:38 PM »
Tom Lehmann recently posted at the PMQ Think Tank on a yeast-less dough for a cracker style, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=84021#p84021.

There is additional discussion on the topic elsewhere in the same thread.

Peter

Online Aimless Ryan

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2012, 05:26:20 PM »
I did an experiment with unfermented dough a few months ago, which I documented in a thread on here somewhere. In this experiment I baked some pizzas using dough without yeast, and I also made pizzas using essentially identical dough with yeast but no fermentation time. From what I remember, I made a few batches of each type of dough, making minor changes with each batch.

I'd probably call these pizzas cracker style.

Without yeast, the crusts ended up pale, gummy, lifeless, and flavorless. They were floppy and sorta resembled tortillas. These pizzas weren't horrible, and they were even pretty good in some ways, but I would never consider serving them to paying customers.

When I used yeast but did everything else the same as I did with my yeastless dough, the pizzas were much better and much more presentable. Every time. The two major differences I remember are: 1) No gummy, soggy crust, and 2) Much better flavor. Seriously, yeast added a ton of good flavor.

From what I remember, buceriasdon indicated that my results were consistent with his experience doing the same (or a similar) experiment.

Obviously there are some things to consider before trying to translate my results to a commercial environment. Regardless, what I did was very easy, and I don't think it would take much effort to translate it to a commercial setting.

Offline FredFlin

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 12:07:02 PM »
Having a bit of a tough time with this with mixed results....

Tried:
  • 40% hydration which rose well and over flowed from its container but was very sticky after 12 hours
  • so we tried leaving it in the cold room to rise...once I got great dough, the next time very hard dough which hardly rose at all

I think what I'm going to try next is less water to start and leave to rise at room temp.

What I'm trying to avoid is a weak base that flops once it has toppings on...

My thinking (and I love to hear your thoughts) is the more water the weaker the base ie floppy... Less water = a crispy base, but not enough water a very hard base. No yeast again a hard more compact dough. Light, thin and crispy with a bit of strength so it does flop is this possible?

It seems very difficult to get consistency... One day the dough is good the next day sticky.. I haven't tried white bread flour yet but the delivery came yesterday and we'll be trying it this week.

I'll keep trying, if I could get consistent results it would certainly help so adjustments would be easier..

 ???

buceriasdon

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2012, 12:42:19 PM »
Are you weighing your flour and water or using volume measurements? I suspect volume because of your lack of consistency.

Online Aimless Ryan

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Re: Cracker Style for busy shop
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 03:20:22 PM »
Are you weighing your flour and water or using volume measurements? I suspect volume because of your lack of consistency.

I'm with Don. Also, a dough with 40% hydration shouldn't feel remotely sticky, nor should it rise much. If your dough is overflowing from its container, it's almost certainly not a 40% hydration dough.

Could you explain how you measure your dough ingredients?