Author Topic: Kyrol hi-gluten flour  (Read 2776 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline eiram21

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 113
Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« on: October 13, 2012, 11:53:17 AM »
Hi All!
At the farmer's market this week, I came across and purchased some Kyrol (ConAgra) hi-gluten flour. The woman who sold it to me mentioned that it contained 14% protein, and I believe it is bleached and bromated. I am excited to try it (also gonna make some bread)

Can anyone offer a good range of hydration for this flour? I typically have been using 62% hydration with KABF and do 0.4% IDY with a cold rise.

Thanks in advance,
Marie
Marie


Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6705
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2012, 12:27:50 PM »
Marie, the bromated aspect is great, but Kyrol, as you're aware, absorbs more water, and higher hydration doughs tend to brown slower, so if you go close to the absorption value (most likely around 65%), then your bake time will increase and you'll lose any benefit that you'll be getting from the bromate.

I would treat it the way I treat All Trumps, which has a similar protein profile.

66% Kyrol
33% AP
62% hydration

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2012, 02:37:26 PM »
great suggested hydration scott.... I have found that its very tolerant of different hydrations, so feel free to experiment going up or down from there.    This flour is the king of high gluten for me... I even prefer it to all trumps.     

Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9816
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2012, 02:58:35 PM »
Marie, the bromated aspect is great, but Kyrol, as you're aware, absorbs more water, and higher hydration doughs tend to brown slower, so if you go close to the absorption value (most likely around 65%), then your bake time will increase and you'll lose any benefit that you'll be getting from the bromate.

I would treat it the way I treat All Trumps, which has a similar protein profile.

66% Kyrol
33% AP
62% hydration
Scott, what floor temp would you rec. for this formula on a LBE ? Can you also assist with an oil and IDY percent...thank you.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6705
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2012, 04:16:32 PM »
Thanks Scott!  :)

Bob, what is your floor material? Cordierite?

Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9816
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2012, 04:36:21 PM »
Yes sir, 22 in. round x 3/4 in. thick...same thing 3in. above it on a C insert.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 04:38:07 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6705
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2012, 04:48:06 PM »
So you got around to doing the insert? Sweet! Did we talk at all about different size stones or did you cut a piece off your hearth for air flow?

My current recipe should work well with a Kyrol blend (66/33)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

It's a bit more water than what I'm recommending for Marie, but you have the luxury of higher temps.

Cordierite can vary, but I'm thinking 600 on the floor should put you in the right ballpark for a 4 minute bake- as long as you have the deflection in place for the air to properly flow up and over the pizza.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 04:50:53 PM by scott123 »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21292
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2012, 06:15:12 PM »
Marie,

Right now I am using all Kyrol flour at market for my NY style pies.  I think it is a good flour to work with.  Right now my hydration is 61%.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline eiram21

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 113
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2012, 08:28:43 PM »
Thanks all for your replies!

Scott - interesting, I would have never thought to blend it with AP..that's what I'll do. Perhaps if I bake on Weber (not LBE, just gas) I can get a better result.

Scott R - Glad to hear you like Kyrol better than All Trumps - I've never tried AT, but I keep hearing amazing things about it and it seems that I hear more about AT than Kyrol (at least on this board), so I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that you like it better than AT.

Norma - wow, great to hear you are using this flour. your pies always look amazing..

I can prop my stone up a few inches off my Weber and bake it that way instead of using the conventional oven at 550. I had been baking pizzas that way for a while until my old stone cracked, but it was a cheapo from Amazon. I wonder if I could use the kiln shelf (that Scott recommended) on my grill? I'd hate to ruin it, but I do love the pizzas on the grill. That extra heat really does make a big difference...
Marie

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
  • Age: 43
  • Location: boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2012, 09:24:27 PM »
All trumps is a much more widely distributed flour than kyrol.    Thats why you hear about it so much more.   Where I live (boston area) there isn't even a distributor for kyrol, yet every foodservice provider I know of sells all trumps.   


Offline eiram21

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 113
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2012, 09:06:35 AM »
All trumps is a much more widely distributed flour than kyrol.    Thats why you hear about it so much more.   Where I live (boston area) there isn't even a distributor for kyrol, yet every foodservice provider I know of sells all trumps.   

Interesting! I guess I got lucky then..I wasn't even looking for it. Just happened to go into a local farmer's market that sells tons of grains, sugars, etc for baking. I bought it with the intention of making bread but then saw that some were using it to make pizza. I'm anxious to experiment with it...
Marie

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21292
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2012, 09:59:42 AM »
Marie,

I donít know what other members might post, but I found if I over mix Kyrol flour when mixing the dough, it can make a chewier crust.  I really donít like a chewier crust, so I mix less.

Good luck with the Kyrol flour.  ;D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6705
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2012, 10:16:09 AM »
I can prop my stone up a few inches off my Weber and bake it that way instead of using the conventional oven at 550. I had been baking pizzas that way for a while until my old stone cracked, but it was a cheapo from Amazon. I wonder if I could use the kiln shelf (that Scott recommended) on my grill? I'd hate to ruin it, but I do love the pizzas on the grill. That extra heat really does make a big difference...

Marie, kiln shelves are extremely durable and are used by many members in their grills. Kiln shelves can crack, in both ovens and grills, but it tends to happen very infrequently.

Your kiln shelf is more conductive than your old stone. That aspect could further exacerbate the traditional top/bottom heat ratio issue found in grills.  You might be able to get away with pre-heating the stone to a lower temp.

Offline eiram21

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 113
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2012, 09:09:07 PM »
Norma - thanks so much for the heads up regarding overmixing. I'll keep that in mind. I've been learning more and more about overmixing. When I started making pizza several years ago, I followed Varasano's method of using windowpaning to test if the dough was mixing enough. I'm now moving away from that so I'm trying to mix just past the cottage cheese stage. I hope that works for this dough. Although I know your doing more commercial sized batches and working with a commercial oven if I'm not mistaken...

Scott - after I posted about my concern regarding the kiln shelf I realized that they were probably built for temps over 2000 degrees..lol. I'm being overprotective of my new stone, aren't I  ::) Thanks for pointing out the potential problem with bottom and top discord in cooking. I'll keep that in mind. I've never put my old stone directly on the grill anyhow, so hopefully that will help at least with the bottom not burning. Having the IR gun will really help here too as I've never had the luxury of using one until you referred me to the buying site. I'm looking for stone temps of 700ish?

Marie
Marie

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21292
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2012, 06:23:17 AM »

Norma - thanks so much for the heads up regarding overmixing. I'll keep that in mind. I've been learning more and more about overmixing. When I started making pizza several years ago, I followed Varasano's method of using windowpaning to test if the dough was mixing enough. I'm now moving away from that so I'm trying to mix just past the cottage cheese stage. I hope that works for this dough. Although I know your doing more commercial sized batches and working with a commercial oven if I'm not mistaken...

Marie

Marie,

Yes, I do mix bigger batches for my market stand, but also do different experiments with mixing different doughs in my Kitchen Aid mixer, or even mixing by hand.  I also used Kyrol flour many times on the boardwalk thread for attempted Mackís clone pizzas.  Those doughs were all mixed in my home Kitchen Aid mixer.  When mixing doughs in my Kitchen Aid mixer compared to doughs made in the Hobart mixer, the Hobart will always mix faster and usually better, but the Kitchen Aid mixer also mixes Kyrol well. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6705
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2012, 07:09:10 AM »
I've never put my old stone directly on the grill anyhow, so hopefully that will help at least with the bottom not burning. Having the IR gun will really help here too as I've never had the luxury of using one until you referred me to the buying site. I'm looking for stone temps of 700ish?


Marie, with 3/4" cordierite, you should be looking for somewhere around 600- not that far from where you are now in your home oven. From what I can tell, you're basically hitting a 5ish minute tan undercrust and should be striving for a 4 minute, slightly charred undercrust. 600-625 should get you that.

Yesterday, I outlined a setup for a broilerless gas oven- the principles are applicable to a bottom heat grill as well.  If you want the top to bake as quickly as the bottom, you might want to incorporate some of these ideas:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21503.0.html

Even though you don't have a higher shelf to put a second stone on, you can sit a top stone on flashing curled into a C that's set on it's side.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 08:45:57 AM by scott123 »

Offline eiram21

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 113
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2012, 03:32:42 PM »
Norma - I would LOVE to own a Hobart. I keep hearing wonderful things about them.

Scott- thanks for all of the info!! I'm looking forward to reading the oven set-up link you provided...the oven is definitely my latest challenge. Although the outdoor grill is useful, I'd like to be able to bake pizzas inside especially in the winter.

marie
Marie

Offline eiram21

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 113
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2012, 06:50:37 PM »
So you got around to doing the insert? Sweet! Did we talk at all about different size stones or did you cut a piece off your hearth for air flow?

My current recipe should work well with a Kyrol blend (66/33)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

It's a bit more water than what I'm recommending for Marie, but you have the luxury of higher temps.

Cordierite can vary, but I'm thinking 600 on the floor should put you in the right ballpark for a 4 minute bake- as long as you have the deflection in place for the air to properly flow up and over the pizza.


I baked pizzas on my Weber gas grill using my 3/4 inch pizza kiln stone instead of indoors, with a stone temp of about 630 using IR gun. After 4.5 minutes, the bottom was black! Ugh! I usually bake inside but forgot to preheat and thought this would be quicker. This was my set up - any suggestions? Would I increase the hydration when using my Weber and how can I improve my set up (for airflow?) I think the stone in this pix might be my old one  - the one I'm using now looks quite similar, 16 inch square and 3/4 inch thick. I used 66/33 Kryol/AP flour with 62% hydration, 0.5% IDY, 2% salt, 2% oil, and 1% sugar. One night cold ferment..
Marie
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 06:52:23 PM by eiram21 »
Marie

Offline eiram21

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 113
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2012, 06:53:19 PM »
I baked pizzas on my Weber gas grill using my 3/4 inch pizza kiln stone instead of indoors, with a stone temp of about 630 using IR gun. After 4.5 minutes, the bottom was black! Ugh! I usually bake inside but forgot to preheat and thought this would be quicker. This was my set up - any suggestions? Would I increase the hydration when using my Weber and how can I improve my set up (for airflow?) I think the stone in this pix might be my old one  - the one I'm using now looks quite similar, 16 inch square and 3/4 inch thick. I used 66/33 Kryol/AP flour with 62% hydration, 0.5% IDY, 2% salt, 2% oil, and 1% sugar. One night cold ferment..
I'm wondering if you can elaborate on the proper deflection that you mentioned above?
Marie
Marie

Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9816
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Kyrol hi-gluten flour
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 09:29:07 PM »
Your deflector is upside down Marie... ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


 

pizzapan