Randy's dough recipe with pictures.

[basetwo]

Hi all.

I thought it might help some newcomers to be able to look at some pictures of how the dough should look while following Randy's recipe.  I'm NOT saying that these pictures represent the perfect conditions, but I thought I'd post the pics so some of the dough veterans could comment on them.  That way they can still act as a reference.

I'm basically doing this because I had no idea how the dough should look at first, and my dough was really wet.  I think I've come alot closer to what it SHOULD be, but we'll see.

This is the recipe I followed, I'll use separate posts with pics for each stage:

Try this simpler recipe to get your feet on the ground.  I promise you it will give you a bakers window.  Then you can go Pete's recipe.

16 oz Bread flour

9.8  oz Water by weight(warm 120deg.  F

1 TBS  sugar

1 TBS Honey

1 Tablespoon  Classico Olive Oil or vegtable oil

2  Teaspoon Salt

1 1./2 teaspoons bread machine yeast

Mix flour sugar and salt.  Put yeast and half the flourmixture  in the mixer.  Mix the honey and oil into the very warm water.  Pour mixture into bowl and place mixer using dough hook on stir for about 2 minutes.  Stop mixer. Add the rest of the flour, then set mixer to stir until the dough pulls from the sides of the bowl then stop mixer for 5 minutes.  After the 5 minutes, go to speed 2 for 12 minutes.   On a lightly floured surface shape into a ball  Place in the refrigerator in a lightly sealed container coated with olive oil overnight or up to three days.

Remove 3  hours before panning
Remove from the fridge and flatten then fold, then shape into a ball using wet hands.
Makes a 16-18” pizza or two 12” pizzas

Randy

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[basetwo]

Mix flour sugar and salt.  Put yeast and half the flourmixture  in the mixer.  Mix the honey and oil into the very warm water.  Pour mixture into bowl and place mixer using dough hook on stir for about 2 minutes.

This was the result:

[basetwo]

Add the rest of the flour, then set mixer to stir until the dough pulls from the sides of the bowl then stop mixer for 5 minutes.

In the last picture, I tried to capture the fact that the dough is not clinging to the hook a good deal.  When I first started working with this recipe, my dough was extremely wet and clung to the dough hook quite a bit.

The result:

[basetwo]

After the 5 minutes, go to speed 2 for 12 minutes.   

The first pic shows the dough at 6 minutes in the 12 minute kneading period.  The second pic shows the dough at the end of 12 minutes, ready to be shaped.  At 6 minutes into the knead, I expect the hook to be "pushing" the dough into the sides and around the bowl.  When my dough was too wet, the dough was still clinging readily to the hook and being "pulled" around the bowl, often with some dough clinging to the very center of the bowl.  At the end of 12 minutes, you may notice that my dough is still just slightly sticky and clinging to the bowl, but it is not hard to remove at all.  Perhaps it needs to be a little dryer yet?

[basetwo]

On a lightly floured surface shape into a ball 

The finished product.  At this point it doesn't really cling to my hands at all.  I've not been told how to form a dough ball, so I've just tried to make the top and sides look smooth by "rolling under" the sides and stretching the top of the dough out.

[tzoavva]

This is a great post and wanted to bump it up a bit.  I think it is worthy being read especially by anyone new in the Home Pizza Making Biz 

I started with this one and got hooked what can I say.

[Randy]

I missed it too.  It was a good post.

Randy

[Jackie Tran]

It's often stated that one should knead the dough until "it feels right" or until "it feels ready".  For the brand new inspiring pizza maker, this feeling is all but a mystery.  Seeing a picture of what it should look like is a much easier goal to shoot for.  Nice post. I'd like to see a pic of the final product as well.

[tzoavva]

That was my thought exactly after reading this post.  Wished there were after shots.  I did post my aftershots for this recipe at the following link with my analysis of the recipe (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10325.msg90770.html#msg90770).  I have been dabbling with the PJ Clone recipe lately but think I will go back and try this one again just to get a feel of it again.  I will definitely say Randy's recipe produces a dough that is very easy to open up vs the PJ Clones.

[Randy]

I thank you for that.  It took me a long time to get it right.

Do y'all use the dustonator for the flour when it comes time to shape which is equal parts flour, semolina and white cornmeal?

Randy

[Pete-zza]

I have been dabbling with the PJ Clone recipe lately but think I will go back and try this one again just to get a feel of it again.  I will definitely say Randy's recipe produces a dough that is very easy to open up vs the PJ Clones.

Joanna,

I'm not sure which PJ clone dough recipe you have been using but the basic PJ clone dough recipe that I posted in Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg58197.html#msg58197 is intended to replicate a pizza dough such as made by Papa John's in its commissaries and delivered to their stores to be used within a window of 3-8 days. That version of the PJ clone uses very little yeast, so little, in fact, that you cannot use it after only two days. It would likely be sour because of insufficient fermentation and the dough would indeed be difficult to open up at that stage. For a two-day dough that opens up easily, Randy's dough formulation is one of the best for a Papa John's style.

Peter

[tzoavva]

Peter,

So far I have done your 8 hour ferm [results here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10376.msg92340.html#msg92340] the 12 hour ferm with whole wheat [results here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10178.msg92321.html#msg92321] and then now also tried out the 2 hour emergency dough photos posted below. 

This one I am surprised even came out.  After fixing the dough and putting it on the counter to ferm i sat down only to realize i forgot to put IDY.  So ran in the kitchen and added the IDY in a bowl with 1 - 1 1/2 water and patted the dough down and put the IDY in the center and rolled the dough back up and put it in the mixer.  Mixed it on low for another 5min and then let it rest for the 2 hours.  It came out OK with the exception the center didn't rise compared to the perimeter.  Not sure if this is due to the issues I have trying to open the skin.

I keep saying I want to do the 5ferm on a Sun night but when Sun rolls around I just don't have the time to do it.  So maybe this Sun I hope to give it a try.  Below I am also posting pics off my Randy Skin and your 2 hour ferm skin for you to see the results.  As you will see there are ripples in the 2hour ferm clone which I think are due to my trying to get it to open up.  I recall having the same issues with the 12 and 8 hour ferm.

Randy,

Actually your recipe I used only KABF to open the skin whereas all of the Peter's clones I used dustonator.  hmmmm wondering if that is the issue

[Pete-zza]

Joanna,

Thanks for the links. That helped me recall what you had done.

I'm not sure what effect the late dispersion of the IDY in the dough had on your results. Since the PJ emergency dough uses a lot of yeast, did the dough rise quickly and uniformly during its proof? I assume that you did not re-work, re-knead or re-shape the dough ball before using it. That can mess up the gluten structure and can require a fair amount of time for the dough to recover.

The PJ clone doughs are much less hydrated than Randy's dough so they will not be as extensible as Randy's dough during the shaping and stretching process. When I came up with all of the PJ clone versions, one of my goals was to use different fermentation methods (room-temperature and cold fermentation) and different windows of usability. In so doing, I tried to keep the parameters about the same as much as possible. The key differentiator was the quantity of yeast and how the yeast might be incorporated into the dough. I think I ended up with about nine different PJ clone dough versions, and a few more that I concocted for other members but did not myself try. If nothing else, I learned a lot from all of these versions. In your case, you might want to increase the hydration in your PJ clone doughs to see if that helps make them more extensible.

I do not believe that using a Dustinator clone blend versus KABF was a factor in your latest results. When I have made the PJ clones, I used the Dustinator clone flour blend (semolina flour, white flour and soybean oil) in the same manner as I observed in my local PJ store. I suppose that if you pressed the Dustinator clone blend into the dough skin too far or too much, you might find it more difficult to open up the skin.

Peter

[Randy]

My Dustinator is equal parts KABF flour, semolina, and white cornmeal albeit a long time ago, before PJ's started making changes, this was the ingredients in their Dustinator at that time.  I use to have an email from them that confirmed that.

Anyway the Dustinato, like Peter posted, doesn't have a great deal of effect on working the dough but it does on the surface characteristics but most importantly on the flavor.  It does make for a great slide with the peel.

One interesting thing I do with this blend is after making hot-dog and or hamburger buns, I take the scraps and work it with the blend.  This bread makes a wonderful bread for spaghetti night in the form of garlic bread.

Randy