Author Topic: which flour is better?  (Read 2212 times)

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Offline z3r01

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which flour is better?
« on: October 16, 2012, 09:45:01 PM »
here is what a local mill has for flour that i can pick up.

http://s13.postimage.org/rfigi9afp/Screen_Shot_2012_10_16_at_9_39_17_PM.png

the general mills is the "all trumps"

or should i go to sams club and get "bakers and chefs high gluten flour"?
(http://s14.postimage.org/lpfpl0f9t/z3r01.jpg)


Offline Don K

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 12:35:09 AM »
What style of pizza are you planning on making?
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Offline scott123

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 06:12:07 AM »
What style of pizza are you planning on making?

Don, from Z3r01's first post, it appears that he's making NY style:

im just an average guy , i live in READING, PA. grew up in brooklyn NYC and had the best pizza there! now i try to replicate my memories of these pizzas at home! look forward into growing with the community!

Offline scott123

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 06:29:27 AM »
Z3r01, unlike many members of this forum, you seem to be blessed with an abundant selection of commercial flours.

All Trumps has had the NY area market share for at least a decade, but there are notable exceptions, and, unless you blend it with weaker flours, it has a strong propensity to get too chewy with extended cold fermentation (and you're definitely going to want to cold ferment).

Member Jackie Tran (Chau) has made some stunning pizzas with Sam's bakers and chefs high gluten flour, but, as far as judging the flour by itself, I'm not sure it's the best flour you can get for NY. I generally point people towards Sam's if they don't have access to commercial flours.

The ideal flour for NY style is bromated 12.7% to 13.2% protein flour. This includes

Full Strength
Spring King
Occident
Pillsbury xxxx patent flour
King Midas Special
Superlative
Commander
Majestic
Springup
Perfect Diamond (I think this is 12.5%ish, but not sure)

These are all very similar flours, put out by competing companies. I have faith in all of them, although, if I had my choice, I'd probably reach for Spring King first. Spring King is Cargill, though, and I don't see that on your list. Full Strength is General Mills and Occident is Conagra, so you should have no trouble finding those.  I would start with Full Strength and then, when that's used up, try a bag of Occident and see how the two compare in your formulation.

Make sure the flour you get is bromated and bleached, as most of these flours have unbromated and/or unbleached versions.

Offline eiram21

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 11:57:39 AM »
Oh so Occident is better than Kryol? My mom bought the Occident - maybe I'll switch with her? Would the Kryol be better for bread making?

marie
Marie

Offline scott123

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 12:06:05 PM »
Marie, it depends on who you ask  >:D I think Norma has access to Occident, although she uses Kyrol for her production dough, so that implies that she prefers Kyrol.

For me, though, unless I'm making bagels, I won't ever go near a 14% protein flour ever again. For bread, I'd recommend 13%ish protein as well.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 12:10:47 PM »
... I generally point people towards Sam's if they don't have access to commercial flours....


My Sam's doesn't have any high gluten anything.  The general population here is more interested in tortilla flour than anything else. :'(
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Offline norma427

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 04:49:20 PM »
Marie, it depends on who you ask  >:D I think Norma has access to Occident, although she uses Kyrol for her production dough, so that implies that she prefers Kyrol.


Scott,

I didn't really play around with the Occident flour enough to know if I like it better than Kyrol or not.  I think I recall that Dave also liked Occident flour.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline scott123

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 04:53:47 PM »
My Sam's doesn't have any high gluten anything.  The general population here is more interested in tortilla flour than anything else. :'(

Yes, I get the feeling that Chau's Albuquerque Sam's is just one of a handful that carries it.

Offline scott123

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 04:55:10 PM »
I didn't really play around with the Occident flour enough to know if I like it better than Kyrol or not.  I think I recall that Dave also liked Occident flour.

Norma, how's the tenderness on the Kyrol? Do you ever wish it was just the tiniest bit more tender?


Offline norma427

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 06:20:09 PM »
Norma, how's the tenderness on the Kyrol? Do you ever wish it was just the tiniest bit more tender?

Scott,

I really don't have a problem with using Kryol flour in the tenderness department.  You can also ask Steve if he notices any problems with the different pies I have made with Kyrol flour if he noticed any tenderness problems.  I have tried GM Full Strength and other flours and really I can notice that big of any difference unless I use different formulations. 

I have to play around more with GM Full Strength and Occident flour.

Even with the Papa Gino's clone recent attempt with Kyrol and KAAP I really can't notice that they are anymore tender.  There is just more droop in those attempts.  The Papa Gino's clone attempts have no oil in the formulation though.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline z3r01

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Re: which flour is better?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 07:10:43 PM »
yes its NY style pizza , ok so im gonna shoot for the all trumps and mix with weaker one but i have to see what ratios , also i wanted to ask 2 more questions (thanks for the replies)

1: cold fermentation, i would use cold water for that and then place the dough in the fridge? i have metal stackable dough proofing pans or whatever they are called.

2: am i using the lehmen calculator right?
(http://s14.postimage.org/lpfpl0f9t/z3r01.jpg)