Author Topic: Is this a common thing?  (Read 644 times)

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Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Is this a common thing?
« on: June 13, 2016, 12:21:34 PM »
My English is not good so I will describe it by picture. Currently I'm trying to make Detroit style pizza following recipes on this forum, in my deck oven. The problem is, I've never tasted any real Detroit pizzas in US, so I can't comparing my clones with them. I've tried Norma recipes, and get a good and crispy crust, but the problem is: After baking I cut them into 8 pieces like this picture: The outside pieces with 'V' symbols are very crispy at the bottom, and can maintain the crispiness for a long time, but the center pieces with 'X' symbols are crispy at first too, but the bottom became softer and softer easily after just a few minutes (2-3 mins after cutting I think). How can it be, is that a common thing or is there something wrong in my process? I baked them at about 575 F for about 15 mins, and then finish on stone for 3 minutes.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 12:45:54 PM by ksh.chicagopizza »

Offline texmex

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2016, 01:49:08 PM »
Are you letting the pizza rest on a solid surface, where it gets soft from steam,  or on an open cooling rack as seen beneath my last Detroit style ? 

Reesa

Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2016, 07:15:18 PM »
Are you letting the pizza rest on a solid surface, where it gets soft from steam,  or on an open cooling rack as seen beneath my last Detroit style ?

No. I don't have a cooling rack, so I let the pizze rest on my wooden cutting board. Will the cooling rack help me with this?

Online norma427

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2016, 07:29:36 PM »
Kim So,

What are you oiling your pans with?  I don't know if you are having problems because of making a bigger Detroit style pizza or not and then not letting them cool a little on a cooling rack like Reesa posted.

Norma

Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2016, 08:24:16 PM »
Kim So,

What are you oiling your pans with?  I don't know if you are having problems because of making a bigger Detroit style pizza or not and then not letting them cool a little on a cooling rack like Reesa posted.

Norma

Norma,

I using regular shortening in my pans, not Crisco but another brand. I tried using oil in my pans, the crust was crispier, but it's hard for me to make the dough to fit entire the pan when using oil because it often pulling back and shrinking when I spreading by hand. As I said, I let the pizza rest on my wooden cutting board and served them on it right after that. It's a 8x10 pizza. I've never tried any cooling rack, wondering is this the main problem?

Offline Arctic Pizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2016, 11:09:14 PM »
Norma,

I using regular shortening in my pans, not Crisco but another brand. I tried using oil in my pans, the crust was crispier, but it's hard for me to make the dough to fit entire the pan when using oil because it often pulling back and shrinking when I spreading by hand. As I said, I let the pizza rest on my wooden cutting board and served them on it right after that. It's a 8x10 pizza. I've never tried any cooling rack, wondering is this the main problem?

leave the pizza in the pan for longer than you did after you took it out of the oven let it cool in the pan.  don't remove when it's too hot.  and then put it on a non porous surface like a round metal pizza tray.  i don't put a pizza on a wood cutting board.  another solution is to retoast the center slices.  but some people like the soft center ones.  whenever i get a square slice, i ask for an end piece.  your issues aren't unique.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 11:16:03 PM by Arctic Pizza »

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2016, 06:20:58 AM »
Norma,

I using regular shortening in my pans, not Crisco but another brand. I tried using oil in my pans, the crust was crispier, but it's hard for me to make the dough to fit entire the pan when using oil because it often pulling back and shrinking when I spreading by hand. As I said, I let the pizza rest on my wooden cutting board and served them on it right after that. It's a 8x10 pizza. I've never tried any cooling rack, wondering is this the main problem?

ksh.chicagopizza,

I also had problems when using oil, and the skins to stretch right with pulling some pulling back and shrinking some. If the doughs are put right in the pan and then cold fermented they would press out nicely with no shrink back.  I don't have enough pans to do the cold ferment in the pans.  Arctic Pizza suggestion to reheat the center slices on the deck should get them crispy.

The steam from sitting right on a wooden cutting board might also be the problem. 

Norma


Offline CarryOn

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2016, 07:24:42 AM »
Another vote for the cooling rack.  Just like when you take a piece of freshly-made toast and set it flat on the plate, it'll start to "sweat" on the bottom and turn soft (which is why I have a toast rack).

It's probably a combination of the things mentioned here, but I'd start with the cooling rack; that alone should make a noticeable difference.

Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 07:25:42 AM »
Thank you guys very much for your help :-)

Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2016, 01:23:04 AM »
ksh.chicagopizza,

I also had problems when using oil, and the skins to stretch right with pulling some pulling back and shrinking some. If the doughs are put right in the pan and then cold fermented they would press out nicely with no shrink back.  I don't have enough pans to do the cold ferment in the pans.  Arctic Pizza suggestion to reheat the center slices on the deck should get them crispy.

The steam from sitting right on a wooden cutting board might also be the problem. 

Norma

Norma,

Can you tell me about the amout of oil you put into the pan for cold fermenting? How many teaspoon maybe?

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2016, 08:04:53 AM »
Norma,

Can you tell me about the amout of oil you put into the pan for cold fermenting? How many teaspoon maybe?

Kim So,

I am not exactly sure how much oil is put into the pans for cold fermenting, but it isn't a lot.  A little oil is poured into the pan and a paper towel is used to spread the oil on the bottom and sides.  If you want me to I can take some photos at market today and also could use a measuring spoon to see about how much oil is used.

Norma


Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2016, 09:18:36 AM »
Kim So,

I am not exactly sure how much oil is put into the pans for cold fermenting, but it isn't a lot.  A little oil is poured into the pan and a paper towel is used to spread the oil on the bottom and sides.  If you want me to I can take some photos at market today and also could use a measuring spoon to see about how much oil is used.

Norma

Of course Norma, please send me your picture at the market :-)


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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2016, 05:11:37 PM »
Of course Norma, please send me your picture at the market :-)

Kim So,

I used teaspoon of canola oil to for my newer Detroit style pans and 1 teaspoon of canola oil for the older Detroit style pans.  The 1 teaspoon of canola oil was a little bit too much even though the pan doesn't show it was too much.  Maybe if you want to use oil you will have to try out different amounts.

Norma

Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2016, 08:41:33 PM »
Kim So,

I used teaspoon of canola oil to for my newer Detroit style pans and 1 teaspoon of canola oil for the older Detroit style pans.  The 1 teaspoon of canola oil was a little bit too much even though the pan doesn't show it was too much.  Maybe if you want to use oil you will have to try out different amounts.

Norma

Thank you Norma, that's alot of help. I guess my problem is that I used way too much oil in my pans too. i read somewhere that many pizzerias use 7-8 tsps of oil in their steel pans, so I followed that method when I don't have my shortening. the dough always swimmed in pool of oils. I'll try again today with 1/2 and 1 tsp

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2016, 10:16:03 PM »
Thank you Norma, that's alot of help. I guess my problem is that I used way too much oil in my pans too. i read somewhere that many pizzerias use 7-8 tsps of oil in their steel pans, so I followed that method when I don't have my shortening. the dough always swimmed in pool of oils. I'll try again today with 1/2 and 1 tsp

Kim So,

I could show you when I tried to use a lot of oil too.  I also had the problems of the doughs swimming in oil.   I don't know how much fat your cheese has in it but think the melting cheese at the edges of the pans does contribute to how the pizza then bake. I could show you some photos of how much grease that is left after taking a Detroit style pizza out of pan.  There is more oil or grease after the bake then before the bake.

Norma

Offline ksh.chicagopizza

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2016, 08:03:56 AM »
Kim So,

I could show you when I tried to use a lot of oil too.  I also had the problems of the doughs swimming in oil.   I don't know how much fat your cheese has in it but think the melting cheese at the edges of the pans does contribute to how the pizza then bake. I could show you some photos of how much grease that is left after taking a Detroit style pizza out of pan.  There is more oil or grease after the bake then before the bake.

Norma

Sure Norma. Is that the reason you're currently using cheddar cheese instead of mozzarella, are they better for DSPs style?  And how is the result when you bake your pies with a lot of oil in pans?

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Re: Is this a common thing?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2016, 08:10:42 AM »
Sure Norma. Is that the reason you're currently using cheddar cheese instead of mozzarella, are they better for DSPs style?  And how is the result when you bake your pies with a lot of oil in pans?

Kim So,

I am currently using cheddar because that is what I use on my NY style pizzas.  The cheddar I can purchase tastes about like a good mozzarella with more flavor than most mozzarellas.  Brick cheese is traditionally used on Detroit style pizzas.  Cheddar is almost like a brick cheese. 

When I was using more oil in the pans the bottom crust didn't get as crisp.

Norma