Author Topic: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ  (Read 983 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2014, 07:17:36 AM »
I have been thinking over about maybe why the proofing dough in the pan didn't rise much yesterday.  I really don't know why it didn't proof enough.  I had thought with using a hydration of 66% the inner crumb crust would have been moister.  I used the Pillsbury 4X flour.  That flour is older, so maybe that might have been part of the cause of the dough not proofing enough.  The dough did feel like about 66% hydration after mixing though.  The dough ball looked like it at least doubled in size before it was put into the steel pan to proof.  I would like to make another attempt at market on Tuesday, but in the meantime will think about what to change.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2014, 08:58:42 AM »
I forgot about Steve's Escalon/Stanislaus Cross Reference. http://www.pizzamaking.com/escalon-stanislaus.html  I found it last evening while looking for something else.  I think that will come in handy for the sauce I would like to create for a Pete's Pizza.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2014, 08:26:57 AM »
I was going to try another formulation and flour for another attempt at something similar to a Pete's Pizza, but decided to just try my regular market dough and par-bake first to see what happens.  I am only going to try an 8x10 pan.  I want to see what difference a par-bake makes.  I really don't know if Pete's Pizza uses a par-bake, but with the heavy use of tomato sauce last they might.  I think I will try a short parbake.

I looked at two supermarkets over the weekend to see how much sugars different tomato products have in them.  From the tomato products I looked at I did not find any that had over 3 grams of sugar per serving size.  I don't have any more cans of the Jersey Fresh crushed tomatoes.  I do have a few cans of the Sclafani crushed tomatoes.  They only have 3 grams of sugar per serving size too.  I think I am going to make a sugar and water mixture and then add that until it gets to about how sweet I might think Pete's sauce tasted.  I will mix the Sclafani crushed tomatoes with the Saporito heavy pizza sauce  I also noticed in the last sauce I tried it was too thick after the bake, and maybe before the bake too.  I wonder if tomato sauce does change some if the sauce is entirely put on the top of a Sicilian pizza.  I have seen when making the Detroit style pizzas, with the tomato sauce put on before the bake, that the tomato sauce dries out a little during the bake.  For the Detroit style there are only racing stripes of sauce.

I also am lowering the TF.

Norma
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Offline petef

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2014, 07:03:33 PM »
Trenton Bill and I went to Pete's Pizza at the Columbus market this past Sunday.

....and on Tuesday 11/18/14 there was a big fire at the Columbus Farm Market!!!
Hopefully, Pete's Pizza and Kate & Al's will reopen soon. I'm pretty sure they are both
far enough away from the building that burnt to be safe.
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/27418456/large-fire-at-columbus-farmers-market-on-route-206

FYI: I prefer Kate & Al's pizza over Pete's Pizza. Mainly for the balance of cheese to sauce.  Pete's Pizza has too much sauce and not enough cheese.

---pete---

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2014, 07:40:16 PM »
....and on Tuesday 11/18/14 there was a big fire at the Columbus Farm Market!!!
Hopefully, Pete's Pizza and Kate & Al's will reopen soon. I'm pretty sure they are both
far enough away from the building that burnt to be safe.
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/story/27418456/large-fire-at-columbus-farmers-market-on-route-206

FYI: I prefer Kate & Al's pizza over Pete's Pizza. Mainly for the balance of cheese to sauce.  Pete's Pizza has too much sauce and not enough cheese.

---pete---

Hi Pete!  I did also post about Pete's Pizza at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,35124.0.html  Columbus Farmer's Market did reopen today.  Thanks for telling us why you prefer Kate & Al's pizza over Pete's Pizza.  I wish I would have gotten to try Kate & Al's Pizza.  We were too full to try Kate & Al's.  There is always another time to try Kate & Al's.   ;D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2014, 08:21:47 PM »
The attempts at a Pete's Pizza did not go well yesterday.  The dough balls weighed 10.8 oz. For the 8x10 pans.  I made 3 dough balls for the Pete's attempts.  I only used two after the poor results.  The dough balls were made from the same dough that I had good luck with at market yesterday.  I used olive oil to grease the steel pans both times.  The first attempt was not parbaked and the second attempt was parbaked.  The sauce tasted something like Pete's sauce that I made when tasted.  When it was baked on the pizza it tasted nothing like Pete's sauce.

I think I will have to purchase a better Sicilian pan before another attempt is made.

Norma
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Offline petef

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2014, 12:28:50 AM »
Norma, I make my own version of Kate & Al's pizza in my home gas oven. The unique things that I do are...

* Use a poolish dough made same day (fermented 4-5 hours).

* 1 pound of dough in a 10" by 15" by 1" tall, black baking pan, oiled with 2 tablespoons Bertolli Classico Olive Oil.

* Parbak at 425 Deg F on top rack about 10 to 12 minutes just until it shows very slight signs of browning.

* Top with cheese first and dabs of pizza sauce on top, then drizzle with Bertolli Classico Olive Oil.

* Bake at 475 deg F on top rack for about 12 minutes or until the cheese just starts to brown.

---pete---
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 12:33:18 AM by petef »

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2014, 07:50:46 AM »
Norma, I make my own version of Kate & Al's pizza in my home gas oven. The unique things that I do are...

* Use a poolish dough made same day (fermented 4-5 hours).

* 1 pound of dough in a 10" by 15" by 1" tall, black baking pan, oiled with 2 tablespoons Bertolli Classico Olive Oil.

* Parbak at 425 Deg F on top rack about 10 to 12 minutes just until it shows very slight signs of browning.

* Top with cheese first and dabs of pizza sauce on top, then drizzle with Bertolli Classico Olive Oil.

* Bake at 475 deg F on top rack for about 12 minutes or until the cheese just starts to brown.

---pete---

Pete,

I did look at your posts to see what you did when searching about a Pete's or Kate & Al's pizza.  Your Kate & Al's pizza looks delicious.  Do you think the Rosa brand is sweet enough alone to make a good Kate & Al's Pizza copy?  I don't think I have ever seen the Rosa brand where I live.  I have to find my non-stick 1 black pan.  I think it might be in the shed somewhere.  My black pan is not the same size as yours though.  I really don't know how to convert your recipe to baker's percents.  What kind of flour do you use. 

Norma
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Offline petef

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2014, 01:07:58 AM »
Pete,

I did look at your posts to see what you did when searching about a Pete's or Kate & Al's pizza.  Your Kate & Al's pizza looks delicious.  Do you think the Rosa brand is sweet enough alone to make a good Kate & Al's Pizza copy?  I don't think I have ever seen the Rosa brand where I live.  I have to find my non-stick 1 black pan.  I think it might be in the shed somewhere.  My black pan is not the same size as yours though.  I really don't know how to convert your recipe to baker's percents.  What kind of flour do you use. 

Norma

Norma, I don't recall anything about "Rosa brand". If I did mention "Rosa" in a previous post, it must have been many years ago and I don't use it anymore. Most of the pizza sauce I make these days if from my garden tomatoes.

My version of Kate & Al's pizza only comes close to theirs. I have not yet figured out their sauce recipe, but my dough recipe come close with it's texture.

I don't use baker's percentages, so I can't help you there. However, To convert the CUPS of flour to ounces....

1 cup King Arthur Bread flour = 4.25 oz by weight
Same for All Purpose flour

1 cup Whole Wheat Flour (traditional) = 4.0 oz by weight


Below are my basic ingredients. I use all King Arthur brand flours.
You could probably eliminate the Wheat Flour and use AP Flour instead.
It's the "poolish" technique in general that produces the unique light & airy texture.

      Title: Pizza dough with poolish by pete
 Categories: pizza, italian
      Yield: 1 pizzas

------------------------------------Poolish-----------------------------------
     3/4 cups      Bread Flour
     1/8 cups      AP Flour
     1/8 cups      Wheat Flour
     3/4 teaspoons Bread Machine Yeast (IDY)
     3/4 cups      Water, room temp or slightly warmed
     3/4 teaspoons Brown Sugar, granulated
------------------------------------Dough------------------------------------
       1 cups      Bread Flour
     3/4 teaspoons Brown Sugar
     3/4 teaspoons Bread Machine Yeast (IDY)
       1 teaspoons Salt
     1/8 teaspoons Garlic powder
     A/R Fixed      Half CUP - GP Flour (for dusting & Kneading)
 

---pete---

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2014, 07:17:50 AM »
Norma,

My version of Kate & Al's pizza only comes close to theirs. I have not yet figured out their sauce recipe, but my dough recipe come close with it's texture.

I don't use baker's percentages, so I can't help you there. However, To convert the CUPS of flour to ounces....

1 cup King Arthur Bread flour = 4.25 oz by weight
Same for All Purpose flour

1 cup Whole Wheat Flour (traditional) = 4.0 oz by weight


Below are my basic ingredients. I use all King Arthur brand flours.
You could probably eliminate the Wheat Flour and use AP Flour instead.
It's the "poolish" technique in general that produces the unique light & airy texture.

      Title: Pizza dough with poolish by pete
 Categories: pizza, italian
      Yield: 1 pizzas

------------------------------------Poolish-----------------------------------
     3/4 cups      Bread Flour
     1/8 cups      AP Flour
     1/8 cups      Wheat Flour
     3/4 teaspoons Bread Machine Yeast (IDY)
     3/4 cups      Water, room temp or slightly warmed
     3/4 teaspoons Brown Sugar, granulated
------------------------------------Dough------------------------------------
       1 cups      Bread Flour
     3/4 teaspoons Brown Sugar
     3/4 teaspoons Bread Machine Yeast (IDY)
       1 teaspoons Salt
     1/8 teaspoons Garlic powder
     A/R Fixed      Half CUP - GP Flour (for dusting & Kneading)
 

---pete---

Pete,

Thanks for telling me your dough recipe comes close to a Kate & Al's crust.  For my tastes I really liked Pete's crust, but the sauce is what stood out for me.  It could have been the combination of many things too.  That why it is hard to try to get close to a pizzerias pizza.  Ovens can also make differences.  When I find time I might try out your recipe.

Norma
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Offline petef

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2014, 07:10:46 AM »
Pete,

Thanks for telling me your dough recipe comes close to a Kate & Al's crust.  For my tastes I really liked Pete's crust, but the sauce is what stood out for me.

The sauce is fantastic and very similar between Pete's and Kate & Al's. Someone told me that many years ago there was a legal battle between the two businesses over the sauce recipe. I don't have the details, but supposedly one business was suing the other, making claims that they stole their pizza sauce recipe. It could be true because they do seem very similar.  ---pete---


Offline petef

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2014, 07:17:53 AM »
I was going to try another formulation and flour for another attempt at something similar to a Pete's Pizza, but decided to just try my regular market dough and par-bake first to see what happens.  I am only going to try an 8x10 pan.

Norma, I use 10" by 15" by 1" tall black baking pans, similar to what Kate & Al's uses. If I don't par-bake, the bottom does not brown. So par-baking is a must for my particular recipe and technique. It's also very important to use plenty of oil in the pan (2 tablespoons) so that the crust kind of fries in the pan.

---pete---

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2014, 10:30:27 AM »
The sauce is fantastic and very similar between Pete's and Kate & Al's. Someone told me that many years ago there was a legal battle between the two businesses over the sauce recipe. I don't have the details, but supposedly one business was suing the other, making claims that they stole their pizza sauce recipe. It could be true because they do seem very similar.  ---pete---

Pete,

At Reply 28 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,35182.msg351376.html#msg351376  you mentioned most of your pizza sauces these days are from your garden tomatoes.  How am I going to replicate that?  All of my tomato plants have died now.  I read about the legal battle you mentioned in the other thread about the sauce. 

Norma, I use 10" by 15" by 1" tall black baking pans, similar to what Kate & Al's uses. If I don't par-bake, the bottom does not brown. So par-baking is a must for my particular recipe and technique. It's also very important to use plenty of oil in the pan (2 tablespoons) so that the crust kind of fries in the pan.

---pete---


Last evening I ordered a 12x18 Black Buster Sicilian Pan from E&A Supply.  http://www.easupply.com/browse.cfm/allied-metal-bb-1218-sicilian-pizza-pan-12x18-black-buster/4,1955.html Since that is a different size steel pan I don't think I could convert your recipe to baker's percents.  Thanks for telling me for your recipe a par-bake needs to be done and also how important it is to use a lot of oil so it fries in the pan

Norma
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Offline petef

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2014, 02:31:50 AM »
Pete,

At Reply 28 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,35182.msg351376.html#msg351376  you mentioned most of your pizza sauces these days are from your garden tomatoes.  How am I going to replicate that?  All of my tomato plants have died now. 

Norma, what I do with my garden fresh tomatoes is make some batches using my favorite pizza sauce recipe and I freeze the sauce. I also process some tomatoes to make a plain tomato sauce with no seasonings and I freeze that too. This way if I want to make a new pizza sauce recipe I have some plain tomato sauce to work with. I usually grow about 20 tomato plants which gives me enough sauce to work with for the entire year.

As for replicating Pete's Pizza Sauce or Kate & Al's, don't go by my recipes. To date, I have not figured out their sauce recipes.

---pete---



« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 02:35:05 AM by petef »

Offline norma427

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Re: Trying to make a pizza like Pete's Pizza at Columbus Market, NJ
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2014, 08:03:13 AM »
Norma, what I do with my garden fresh tomatoes is make some batches using my favorite pizza sauce recipe and I freeze the sauce. I also process some tomatoes to make a plain tomato sauce with no seasonings and I freeze that too. This way if I want to make a new pizza sauce recipe I have some plain tomato sauce to work with. I usually grow about 20 tomato plants which gives me enough sauce to work with for the entire year.

As for replicating Pete's Pizza Sauce or Kate & Al's, don't go by my recipes. To date, I have not figured out their sauce recipes.

---pete---

Pete,

Thanks for telling me what you do to make your pizza sauces.  It is great that you incorporate your fresh tomatoes with your favorite pizza sauce and also make some plain tomato sauce with no seasonings and freeze that too.  I did something like you are doing with November's sauce.  The server told Bill and me the one tomato sauce was Dolce, so I would take that it would be Stanislaus Super Dolce.  As for the other pizza sauce I really don't know. 

If I can figure out how to increase your dough recipe I will give it a try after I receive my new pan.

Norma
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