Author Topic: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 217886 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1150 on: January 13, 2013, 12:19:44 PM »
Gene,

In my opinion there is enough information between the Buddy’s thread, the Via 313 thread, Craig’s Detroit style pizza thread and this thread to be able to make a credible Buddy’s clone pizza.  It might not be exactly like the Buddy’s pizza of “olden days”, but I would think it might be pretty close.  With Thelma (Peter) at the helm I don’t think Louise (or anyone else) could go wrong on any of this threads.  I think Thelma (Peter), PizzaHog and other members have found out about all the information that can be found without more insider information. 

The only way you will know if any of these are like Buddy’s pizzas of years ago is to start trying some of the formulations to see what you think.  Since you did eat Buddy’s pizzas years ago, you should know what they are supposed to taste like, the texture of the crumb and so forth.  As PizzaHog has stated in the Buddy’s thread different times, he thinks mild white cheddar might make the Buddy’s clones taste like the Buddy’s pizzas of years ago.  This is just one of PizzaHog’s comments on the Buddy’s thread about trying mild white cheddar at Reply 280 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg119825.html#msg119825 because PizzaHog doesn’t think the brick cheese Buddy’s uses now has the same taste as years ago. 

Norma
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1151 on: January 13, 2013, 01:17:22 PM »
i think you may be directionally dyslexic.

I think you're right.  :-D Thanks.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1152 on: January 13, 2013, 01:28:49 PM »
I just don't see Via 313 pizza looking near as good as the examples presented here on this thread, sorry. :-\
Also having a hard time imagining those strips of raw bacon cooked below the cheese as being very enjoyable, especially textural wise.

VIA 313 is very very good, and the use of whole strips of raw bacon cooked in the cheese is genus. The pie I made that way with the jalapeños on top was one of the finest pies I've ever made.

CL
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Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1153 on: January 13, 2013, 04:21:53 PM »
Gene,

In my opinion there is enough information between the Buddy’s thread, the Via 313 thread, Craig’s Detroit style pizza thread and this thread to be able to make a credible Buddy’s clone pizza.  It might not be exactly like the Buddy’s pizza of “olden days”, but I would think it might be pretty close.  With Thelma (Peter) at the helm I don’t think Louise (or anyone else) could go wrong on any of this threads.  I think Thelma (Peter), PizzaHog and other members have found out about all the information that can be found without more insider information. 

The only way you will know if any of these are like Buddy’s pizzas of years ago is to start trying some of the formulations to see what you think.  Since you did eat Buddy’s pizzas years ago, you should know what they are supposed to taste like, the texture of the crumb and so forth.  As PizzaHog has stated in the Buddy’s thread different times, he thinks mild white cheddar might make the Buddy’s clones taste like the Buddy’s pizzas of years ago.  This is just one of PizzaHog’s comments on the Buddy’s thread about trying mild white cheddar at Reply 280 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg119825.html#msg119825 because PizzaHog doesn’t think the brick cheese Buddy’s uses now has the same taste as years ago. 

Norma

I'm actually happy with my own pizzas, but always eager to read, and learn, more.  Always interested in hearing what other people are doing, what places they've visited, etc.  I think I like reading about Detroit pizza almost as much as eating it!

Gene

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1154 on: January 13, 2013, 06:53:19 PM »
I'm actually happy with my own pizzas, but always eager to read, and learn, more.  I think I like reading about Detroit pizza almost as much as eating it!

Gene


Gene,

What formulation are using now for your Detroit style pizzas and what kind of cheese, or cheeses are you using? 

Norma
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Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1155 on: January 13, 2013, 10:14:51 PM »
Gene,

What formulation are using now for your Detroit style pizzas and what kind of cheese, or cheeses are you using? 

Norma

I used the dough formula and recipe I described at Reply 1078 on this post (http://goo.gl/wNGhk) - the formula described in Jim Lahey's book, My Pizza, but with the modifications of using Italian 00 flour and mixing for 30-60 seconds in my Kitchenaid at the lowest speed because when I've tried mixing by hand, I had trouble incorporating all the flour.

My primary goal was to get the crust and basic characteristics right, so now I'm experimenting.  One of the "perks" of being a commercial real estate broker with a specialty in retail is that I have food customers, who do pizza, and I can get a few pounds of All Trumps pretty much anytime, just by asking, so I want to try All Trumps as well as all purpose and bread flour (Better for Bread from the supermarket) and see if I notice a difference and if I do, which one I like best.  I do really like the 00, but as I mentioned, a couple of partners and I are thinking of opening a cafe and 00 costs at least twice as much as the alternatives, so I want to see if one of those would work as well.

I'm trying to go one variable at a time, so next would be cheese.  At the moment, I'm using Trader Joe's pre-shredded mozzarella for the middle, and TJ's Extra-Sharp Wisconsin Cheddar for the edge.  If you have an opinion on the alternatives among mild, sharp and extra-sharp, I'd like to hear it.  Anyway, I'll probably try different brands to see if I favor any.  And for the middle, I can try provolone or a mozzarella-provolone combo.  And I certainly plan to try the "good stuff," the cow's milk (as opposed to water buffalo milk) version of the fresh mozzarella used on Neopolitan pizzas.  I'm really eager to try the brick cheese everyone is talking about.  Anyone know if I can order it for delivery?

For sauce, so far, I used a can of crushed tomatoes, probably Hunt's, with a little added oregano and sugar.  But I really like 6-in-1, straight out of the can, so that's what I'm going to try next and, I suspect, I'll stick with it.

Oh, and I greased the pan with butter-flavored Crisco, after trying olive oil, which did not prevent the cheddar from sticking to the side of the pan.

I'm also experimenting with temperature and baking time.  The reason I asked you about your oven is because there are some locations here in NYC that are good in terms of traffic, convenience, etc., but where the landlord won't allow cooking or it's not physically possible.  I happen to have one customer, Gina La Fornarina, a mini-chain of three Italian restaurants (http://www.ginany.com).  As you can see, they have a pretty varied menu (http://goo.gl/qPhgS) and the pizzas look good (http://goo.gl/5l6AC), like an artisan Neopolitan pizza.  But they're baked in a small convection oven, about like this: http://goo.gl/lRIkz

Trust me, in NYC, being able to get by with a small convection rather than a large commercial Bakers-Pride type deck oven saves a lot of money and also greatly expands the universe of potential locations, so I am very interested in being able to bake Detroit style pizzas in a small convection oven.  My impression is that you have a relatively small pizza stand in a flea market or something similar, so though I'm reasonably sure from my home oven results that a small convection oven would work for me, I was hoping that you would be using such an oven and could tell me what temperature and time you were using.  But I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Gene

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1156 on: January 14, 2013, 08:58:51 AM »
I used the dough formula and recipe I described at Reply 1078 on this post (http://goo.gl/wNGhk) - the formula described in Jim Lahey's book, My Pizza, but with the modifications of using Italian 00 flour and mixing for 30-60 seconds in my Kitchenaid at the lowest speed because when I've tried mixing by hand, I had trouble incorporating all the flour.

My primary goal was to get the crust and basic characteristics right, so now I'm experimenting.  One of the "perks" of being a commercial real estate broker with a specialty in retail is that I have food customers, who do pizza, and I can get a few pounds of All Trumps pretty much anytime, just by asking, so I want to try All Trumps as well as all purpose and bread flour (Better for Bread from the supermarket) and see if I notice a difference and if I do, which one I like best.  I do really like the 00, but as I mentioned, a couple of partners and I are thinking of opening a cafe and 00 costs at least twice as much as the alternatives, so I want to see if one of those would work as well.

I'm trying to go one variable at a time, so next would be cheese.  At the moment, I'm using Trader Joe's pre-shredded mozzarella for the middle, and TJ's Extra-Sharp Wisconsin Cheddar for the edge.  If you have an opinion on the alternatives among mild, sharp and extra-sharp, I'd like to hear it.  Anyway, I'll probably try different brands to see if I favor any.  And for the middle, I can try provolone or a mozzarella-provolone combo.  And I certainly plan to try the "good stuff," the cow's milk (as opposed to water buffalo milk) version of the fresh mozzarella used on Neopolitan pizzas.  I'm really eager to try the brick cheese everyone is talking about.  Anyone know if I can order it for delivery?

For sauce, so far, I used a can of crushed tomatoes, probably Hunt's, with a little added oregano and sugar.  But I really like 6-in-1, straight out of the can, so that's what I'm going to try next and, I suspect, I'll stick with it.

Oh, and I greased the pan with butter-flavored Crisco, after trying olive oil, which did not prevent the cheddar from sticking to the side of the pan.

I'm also experimenting with temperature and baking time.  The reason I asked you about your oven is because there are some locations here in NYC that are good in terms of traffic, convenience, etc., but where the landlord won't allow cooking or it's not physically possible.  I happen to have one customer, Gina La Fornarina, a mini-chain of three Italian restaurants (http://www.ginany.com).  As you can see, they have a pretty varied menu (http://goo.gl/qPhgS) and the pizzas look good (http://goo.gl/5l6AC), like an artisan Neopolitan pizza.  But they're baked in a small convection oven, about like this: http://goo.gl/lRIkz

Trust me, in NYC, being able to get by with a small convection rather than a large commercial Bakers-Pride type deck oven saves a lot of money and also greatly expands the universe of potential locations, so I am very interested in being able to bake Detroit style pizzas in a small convection oven.  My impression is that you have a relatively small pizza stand in a flea market or something similar, so though I'm reasonably sure from my home oven results that a small convection oven would work for me, I was hoping that you would be using such an oven and could tell me what temperature and time you were using.  But I'm sure I'll figure it out.

Gene




Gene,

I now recall what dough formula and recipe you used and described.  Sorry for forgetting about it.   :-[

I did use Kyrol flour earlier in this thread for my attempts and it is something like All Trumps flour.  I only switched to the Occident bromated flour after we found out what protein flour Buddy’s is using.  

I did take a video of my small pizza stand and if you are interested it is at Reply 529 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg104786.html#msg104786  I do have a small Cadco convection oven there, but never tried it to make Detroit style pizzas.  The Buddy’s clones I have made at home in my oven turned out good, so I don’t know why a convection oven couldn’t work, either with the convection feature or not.  I can understand it would be a lot easier for you not to use a large oven like a Baker’s Pride.

At Reply 717 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg227392.html#msg227392 are pictures of the three cheeses I am using regularly when I am not trying out brick cheeses on my Buddy’s clone pizzas.  In my opinion the AMPI mild white cheddar (third picture down) is a very good mild white cheddar.

I think I did post that I liked the Eddie’s brick cheese at the Mandi Cheese Shop http://www.mandifoods.com/shop/  I did post a picture of the 6 lb. loaf somewhere on this thread but I can’t find where I posted it with the search feature here on the forum.  If you type in brick cheese in the search box at the Mandi’s Cheese Shop it should come up if you want to try it.  That is the same brick cheese they use on different pizzas in the Scranton area of Pa. Those kind of pizzas are Sicilian pizzas, but different than Detroit style.

The steel pans do need to be seasoned enough so they don’t stick.  

I am not good at posting to long replies with quoted material as you might have seen in the one post I made to Peter because the screen keeps jumping on me when trying to do that, so this is just a general post to what you posted.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 09:00:29 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1157 on: January 14, 2013, 09:46:47 AM »
Gene,

When you start your own experiments I think it would be a very good idea to start a new thread. Not everyone is trying to emulate the Buddy's particular version of the Detroit style pizza, and not everyone has the same ingredients as used by Buddy's. And people are always looking out for new and different things. The reason why Norma and I tried to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's dough is because people asked for it, starting with the Buddy's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.0.html, which you started over six years ago. Of course, in Norma's case, she also wanted to try to make a credible version of the Detroit style pizza for sale at market.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1158 on: January 14, 2013, 10:01:39 AM »
I think I did post that I liked the Eddie’s brick cheese at the Mandi Cheese Shop http://www.mandifoods.com/shop/  I did post a picture of the 6 lb. loaf somewhere on this thread but I can’t find where I posted it with the search feature here on the forum.
Norma,

I think the photos you are looking for are the ones in Reply 92 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220599.html#msg220599. As I have mentioned before on a few occasions, the forum's search engine has problems searching for words with an apostrophe s. When I tried searching Eddie's brick cheese this morning, I got zero hits. When I searched using Eddie brick cheese (without the apostrophe s), I got all of the posts with those terms. In my case, I limited the search to just this thread. The forum's search engine also has problems searching for acronyms, and words with hyphens. Knowing what the search engine cannot do is almost getting to be as important as what it can do.

Peter


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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1159 on: January 14, 2013, 10:42:19 AM »
Norma,

I think the photos you are looking for are the ones in Reply 92 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220599.html#msg220599. As I have mentioned before on a few occasions, the forum's search engine has problems searching for words with an apostrophe s. When I tried searching Eddie's brick cheese this morning, I got zero hits. When I searched using Eddie brick cheese (without the apostrophe s), I got all of the posts with those terms. In my case, I limited the search to just this thread. The forum's search engine also has problems searching for acronyms, and words with hyphens. Knowing what the search engine cannot do is almost getting to be as important as what it can do.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for finding the link to the photos of the Eddie’s brick cheese.  I didn’t use apostrophe s when I used the search words Eddie brick cheese under this thread (because I did recall you posted the forum‘s search engine has problems searching for words with an aspostrophe s ), but saw there were two pages of posts on the words Eddie brick cheese.  When I saw two pages of posts and I was too lazy to look at all of them to see where the photos were.  That is why I just posted the link to the Mandi Cheese Shop.

Norma
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Offline Skee

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1160 on: January 14, 2013, 11:11:43 AM »
I don’t know what area you are in.  I guess if you are near Michigan then you might be able to purchase some of the brick cheese like they are using in the different Detroit style pizza businesses.
I'm in Austin, Texas, so probably can't get the brands you have available, but I'll look (haven't seen brick cheese in any store down here).  I'm trying a new Mozzarella on tomorrow's DS - can't recall the name off the top of my head, but they had both part skim and whole milk versions and the samples were very tasty.   

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1161 on: January 14, 2013, 11:29:46 AM »
I'm in Austin, Texas, so probably can't get the brands you have available, but I'll look (haven't seen brick cheese in any store down here).  I'm trying a new Mozzarella on tomorrow's DS - can't recall the name off the top of my head, but they had both part skim and whole milk versions and the samples were very tasty.  

Britt,

Thanks for telling us what area you are in.  I really don’t have brick cheese available to me either unless I was sent samples of the brick cheeses, or purchased brick cheese online.  I don’t know if you want to add any mild cheddar, but when I used my foodservice mozzarellas they did brown well on the edges and gave about the same caramelized edges, but the mild white cheddar did give a better flavor on the edges and the whole pizzas for me in my Buddy’s clones.  I am not saying the one Buddy’s clone pizza with my two mozzarellas was bad, but it wasn’t as good as when mild white cheddar was used on the edges.

I hope you report back how you liked your mozzarellas when baked on a Detroit style of pizza.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 11:44:54 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1162 on: January 14, 2013, 11:36:33 AM »
I'm in Austin, Texas, so probably can't get the brands you have available, but I'll look (haven't seen brick cheese in any store down here).   
Britt,

As I noted at Reply 470 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg225267/topicseen.html#msg225267, one of the Central Markets in Austin (I think I called the one on Lamar) does sell brick cheese. You might call the other CM to see if they have the Widmer brick cheese, as does the CM Houston store.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1163 on: January 14, 2013, 01:13:37 PM »
Gene,

When you start your own experiments I think it would be a very good idea to start a new thread. Not everyone is trying to emulate the Buddy's particular version of the Detroit style pizza, and not everyone has the same ingredients as used by Buddy's. And people are always looking out for new and different things. The reason why Norma and I tried to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's dough is because people asked for it, starting with the Buddy's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.0.html, which you started over six years ago. Of course, in Norma's case, she also wanted to try to make a credible version of the Detroit style pizza for sale at market.

Peter

Peter,

Has it really been six years??!!

I'm actually surprised, myself, that a thread called "Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!" somehow became a sort of sister-thread to the "official" Buddy's Pizza thread, but not to worry.  In answering Norma's question about what formula I used, I wanted to distinguish between the parts I did deliberately (dough, butter-flavored Crisco), and those that were just ingredients I had on hand - i.e., because I was only working on the dough, I didn't care what went on top of it.

Going forward, if someone asks me a specific question about an ingredient or process, of course I'll answer, but I don't plan to post day-to-day experimental stuff, only, maybe, something that seems new.  I posted Reply 1078 because I don't think anyone tried a combination of my "modified Lahey method" and 00 flour.  Or at least, so I thought.  I was away for so long and am frankly astonished at how many replies got posted during my absence, not nearly enough time to read them all.

But if I do anything substantial, I'll start a new thread.

Gene





Offline Skee

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1164 on: January 14, 2013, 02:02:23 PM »
...one of the Central Markets in Austin (I think I called the one on Lamar) does sell brick cheese. You might call the other CM to see if they have the Widmer brick cheese, as does the CM Houston store...
Both the Austin stores are on Lamar, one south and one north, but when I asked about brick in the cheese departments neither store had any on hand.  Maybe they were just out at the time.   I'll try again and just ask for "Widmer" cheese and see what happens.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1165 on: January 14, 2013, 04:14:37 PM »
Has it really been six years??!!

I'm actually surprised, myself, that a thread called "Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!" somehow became a sort of sister-thread to the "official" Buddy's Pizza thread, but not to worry. 
Gene,

Six years is quite amazing. FYI, this thread did not start out as a further attempt to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's dough and pizza. In fact, the thread started out on the General Pizza Making board. Norma had made a round pizza based on a recipe and tomatoes that she had gotten from a friend Bill in Trenton and using a sauce preparation method from Bill/SFNM (hence the two Bills). Norma liked the pizza very much but wanted to make a larger version using a rectangular pan. I volunteered to help her convert Trenton Bill's numbers for a round pizza to the numbers for a large rectangular pizza. It was in the course of doing this, along with further input from Trenton Bill, that we concluded that what he and Norma had made were basically clones of the Buddy's pizza, using a dough recipe that was cobbled together from ideas from the Buddy's thread. Rather than merging the two threads, and since Norma thought that she might want to make and sell Buddy's clones at market, we decided to make this thread the home for a commercial version of the Buddy pizza. We were then off to the races, and before we knew it, we were taking a fresh look at reverse engineering and cloning the Buddy's dough and pizza. What I found most interesting is that Buddy's didn't stand still over the past six years. They made many changes, and it was trying to identify those changes and and differences in their pizzas that took a lot of time and work to decipher.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1166 on: January 14, 2013, 05:44:24 PM »
I mixed the Buddy clone dough longer today and also did a few other things a little differently.  I did mix only with the flat beater and mixed on speeds 1, 2 and 3, but did mix on speed three longer than before.  The final dough temperature was 73.1 degrees F.  Until I cut, scaled, balled and oiled the dough balls it was longer than last week too.  One of the dough balls wasn’t oiled at all.  I also wanted to see how that goes without oiling a dough ball.   The Buddy’s clone dough did look like it had pretty much strength in the dough to me. There is one picture of that showing me stretching the dough.  I also oiled some of my steel pans with Canola oil and some with MFB shortening to see what will happen with that tomorrow.  I placed the steel pans with the one end of the steel pans on the deli case shelf raised lip, so the dough balls in the steel pans might not slide.

The two pictures of the dough in the mixer with the flat beater were the first picture was when the dough was only mixed on speed one for awhile and the second picture is after speed two and speed three were used.  The dough was finished being mixed in that picture.

The formulation is also in the one picture.

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1167 on: January 14, 2013, 05:46:32 PM »
I also did grease one 8-square pan with MGB shortening.

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1168 on: January 14, 2013, 08:51:20 PM »
They look great!  What do your customers think of them?

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1169 on: January 14, 2013, 09:14:19 PM »
They look great!  What do your customers think of them?


Tom,

Thank you for your kind comment.  So far my customers, stand holders, market managers and workers for market do really like the Buddy’s clones, but I don’t want to get to far ahead of myself because I am not really up to speed in making many pizzas of this style yet.  The Buddy’s clone pizzas are a lot different than making a NY style or a Greek pizza.  Because the dough (when tempered) seems so fragile in how it tempers (and if it tempers right), if I don’t get the tempering right then the Buddy’s clones don’t turn out right for me.  I think I still have a lot of experimenting to do with how to mix right, my formulation, the tempering times and other things.  At least it is winter here and tomorrow the weather isn’t suppose to be the best. Maybe it will give me more time to try and figure this all out.  :-D

Norma  
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1170 on: January 14, 2013, 09:28:24 PM »
Norma,

Making multiple types of pizzas for sale on only one day a week strikes me as being immeasurably harder to do than if you had a full-time pizza place and sold pizzas every day of the week but with only one style. As you know, the pizza places that specialize in the Detroit style pizzas pretty much make only that style (although a few have been testing out related styles).

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1171 on: January 14, 2013, 09:43:47 PM »
Norma,

Making multiple types of pizzas for sale on only one day a week strikes me as being immeasurably harder to do than if you had a full-time pizza place and sold pizzas every day of the week but with only one style. As you know, the pizza places that specialize in the Detroit style pizzas pretty much make only that style (although a few have been testing out related styles).

Peter


Peter,

I also agree that making multiple types of pizzas that I only sell one day a week is much harder to do than if I had a full-time pizza place selling only one style of pizza.  Maybe, I will eventually get the Buddy’s clone style down right, but don’t know how long it will take. 

I do want to be the first pizza business (in our area) to be able to make a Buddy’s clone as well as I can.  We will all see if I fail, succeed, or drives myself nuts.  I sure don’t know of any other place around our area that offers Detroit style pizzas.

I dreamt about those darn Buddy’s clone pizzas the other night and I never dreamt about any pizza before.  :-D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1172 on: January 14, 2013, 09:44:50 PM »
Gene,

Six years is quite amazing. FYI, this thread did not start out as a further attempt to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's dough and pizza. In fact, the thread started out on the General Pizza Making board. Norma had made a round pizza based on a recipe and tomatoes that she had gotten from a friend Bill in Trenton and using a sauce preparation method from Bill/SFNM (hence the two Bills). Norma liked the pizza very much but wanted to make a larger version using a rectangular pan. I volunteered to help her convert Trenton Bill's numbers for a round pizza to the numbers for a large rectangular pizza. It was in the course of doing this, along with further input from Trenton Bill, that we concluded that what he and Norma had made were basically clones of the Buddy's pizza, using a dough recipe that was cobbled together from ideas from the Buddy's thread. Rather than merging the two threads, and since Norma thought that she might want to make and sell Buddy's clones at market, we decided to make this thread the home for a commercial version of the Buddy pizza. We were then off to the races, and before we knew it, we were taking a fresh look at reverse engineering and cloning the Buddy's dough and pizza. What I found most interesting is that Buddy's didn't stand still over the past six years. They made many changes, and it was trying to identify those changes and and differences in their pizzas that took a lot of time and work to decipher.

Peter

Oh, well, it's all pizza!

I hope the Buddy's changes are all good ones.  I can't tell you how disappointed I was to learn that my beloved Vernors Ginger Ale (http://goo.gl/g9E5s) now contains fructose and artificial flavors.

Sadly, unlike, say, technology, changes in food products seem almost always to be of the corner- and/or cost-cutting variety and rarely of the "make better" variety.

Offline Skee

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1173 on: January 15, 2013, 11:12:40 AM »
I can't tell you how disappointed I was to learn that my beloved Vernors Ginger Ale (http://goo.gl/g9E5s) now contains fructose and artificial flavors.
Ah, Vernor's!  When I was in 7th grade, mid-'70s, we lived in Ann Arbor for a year and Vernor's was my favorite soda - stick your nose in the glass, take a sniff, and sneeze from all the ginger and carbonation.  We moved to Austin and by the time I saw Vernor's again it was a pale imitation of the original, for sure - it's just another gingerale now.

Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1174 on: January 15, 2013, 11:58:11 AM »
Ah, Vernor's!  When I was in 7th grade, mid-'70s, we lived in Ann Arbor for a year and Vernor's was my favorite soda - stick your nose in the glass, take a sniff, and sneeze from all the ginger and carbonation.  We moved to Austin and by the time I saw Vernor's again it was a pale imitation of the original, for sure - it's just another gingerale now.

I've ordered it online and to me, it still has that distinctive taste, different from, say, Canada Dry.  But still, you're right, some indefinable something is missing.

In my youth, back in Detroit, we used to heat it up in winter and serve it in a cup with a cinnamon stick.

And did you know, Vernors won a taste contest on Serious Eats? http://goo.gl/57eDk

Anyone else here from Michigan?  Maybe we can turn this "Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!" thread that got turned into a Buddy's Pizza thread, into a Vernors thread.


 

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