Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 148987 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #180 on: November 07, 2012, 07:59:36 AM »
Norma
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 08:12:59 AM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #181 on: November 07, 2012, 08:01:08 AM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #182 on: November 07, 2012, 08:04:09 AM »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #183 on: November 07, 2012, 08:05:47 AM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #184 on: November 07, 2012, 08:06:58 AM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #185 on: November 07, 2012, 08:08:28 AM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #186 on: November 07, 2012, 08:27:46 AM »
Looks great Norma!!
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #187 on: November 07, 2012, 10:01:54 AM »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #188 on: November 07, 2012, 01:02:39 PM »
Norma,

I agree that the pizzas look good.

I am a bit confused about the fermentation protocols for the three dough balls? Can you summarize what they were, and also can you correlate the three dough balls with the pizzas shown in the photos? Also, did you bake some of the pizzas when the dough was cold?

Finally, can you tell me the bake temperatures you used to bake the pizzas?

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #189 on: November 07, 2012, 03:04:57 PM »
Norma,

I agree that the pizzas look good.

I am a bit confused about the fermentation protocols for the three dough balls? Can you summarize what they were, and also can you correlate the three dough balls with the pizzas shown in the photos? Also, did you bake some of the pizzas when the dough was cold?

Finally, can you tell me the bake temperatures you used to bake the pizzas?

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for saying the pizzas look good, but I was trying for a little crisper bottom crust, which I didnít achieve.

To try and tell about the fermentation protocols for the three doughs balls, the first dough ball pictured at Reply 175 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222024.html#msg222024  was let out at room temperature for about an hour.  It was then put into oiled steel pan (with peanut oil).  The dough in the steel pan was then put into the Hatco Unit for about 1 Ĺ hrs. (with out any lid) for about the first 20 minutes.  The pizza was then just dressed and baked.

The second dough ball isnít pictured, but the skin in the steel pan (with corn oil) is pictured at Reply 176  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222025.html#msg222025 and the first picture at Reply 177 with the second picture showing how the distance from the poppy seed spacing decreased instead of increased after the proofing of about 1 hr. in the Hatco unit.  I was trying to get those poppy seeds to stay put in those pictures.  After the punch down and subsequent rising (about another 45 minutes) of that skin in the steel pan (also in the Hatco unit) is pictured at Reply 180 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222029.html#msg222029  The resulting pizza is also pictured in that post and the next few posts.  The picture of the pan in the Hatco unit was for the 3rd pizza.  That dough was only proofed in the Hatco unit for about an hour and the picture of that skin in the steel pan (oiled with corn oil) is at Reply 183 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222032.html#msg222032 with the resulting pizza after that. 

I didnít bake any of the pizzas when the dough was cold, they were all put into the Hatco unit.  Two dough balls was almost opened cold though, those being the second and third pizzas.

I would guess the temperature to bake all three pizzas was about 539 degrees F. 

I hope I didnít confuse you or other members more.  If I need to explain more let me know.

I was wondering why even though I used different methods of tempering the dough in the pan (and different amounts of times) they all about rose the same after the bakes.  Even the skin in the first pizza that really dried out (from me not placing anything on top of the pan at first, also seemed to rise the same after the bake.   

Norma 
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Offline Skee

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #190 on: November 07, 2012, 03:15:31 PM »
Norma - thanks for posting the pics with the thickness.  Pizza looks really tasty!

Here are a couple of pics of last night's pizza. The 80% hydration was just too much when combined with an all-day rise - the dough was like really thick pancake batter and almost spread itself in the pans, which was nice, but once risen was clearly too light to support the weight of the toppings so I parbaked them for 10 minutes, then dressed and gave them another 10-12 to finish.  The resulting crust was very light and airy with a nice crisp and crunchy bottom, got rave reviews.  Probably not much like a Buddy's, but it gave me an upper limit on hydration.

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #191 on: November 07, 2012, 03:38:02 PM »
Skee,

Your idea of using a parbaked for 10 minutes was good if the fermented dough would not have supported the toppings.  I can see your crumb is light and airy.  What kind of oil did you use to grease your steel pan?  I canít seem to be able to achieve the crunchy bottom.  Eighty percent hydration is really high.  Your pies sure look really tasty.  :)

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #192 on: November 07, 2012, 03:45:35 PM »
Looks really good Skee. I like the way you improvised on that.... :chef:
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #193 on: November 07, 2012, 05:06:27 PM »
I was wondering why even though I used different methods of tempering the dough in the pan (and different amounts of times) they all about rose the same after the bakes.  Even the skin in the first pizza that really dried out (from me not placing anything on top of the pan at first, also seemed to rise the same after the bake.    


Norma,

I suspect that the amount of yeast was large enough that it didn't really matter what you did to the dough.

In order to get more bottom crispiness, which is characteristic of a real Buddy's pizza from my research, I think you would need to lower the bake temperature and bake for a longer time. According to Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62915.html#msg62915, the Buddy's pizzas are baked for 12 minutes in an infrared conveyor oven; as noted at Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795, the bake temperature is 495 degrees F. I do not know much about infrared conveyor ovens but according to Tom Lehmann in a PMQ Think tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=22979#p22979, the temperature of the top and bottom emitters can be set at the desired values along with the bake time. As noted in that post, the pans should be dark pans. Later in the same thread, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=23106#p23106, Tom notes that an infrared conveyor oven can bake like a deck oven. That is what Buddy's apparently used before it went to conveyor ovens. See also John Correll's PMQTT post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=8278#p8278. I mention all of this to give you an idea as to how Buddy's apparently bakes its pizzas. If you can't lower the temperature of your deck oven at market and use a longer bake time, I can't say whether you can get the same bottom crust characteristic as a real Buddy's pizza.

An additional possible advantage of using a longer, lower bake temperature is that the cheese may not blacken up as much. However, that is something that would need to be tested. With an infrared conveyor oven, the top emitter could be set at a temperature that cooks the top of the pizza without turning the cheese too dark.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 05:35:37 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #194 on: November 07, 2012, 05:45:55 PM »
The weights of all 3 pizzas were.

First pizza.  1 lb. 3.8 ounces
Second pizza. 1 lb. 4.1 ounces
Third pizza 1 lb. 4.2 ounces.

Norma,

You previously indicated that the dough ball weights were 277 grams, or 9.77 ounces. With 4 ounces of pizza sauce and 8 ounces of cheese, the corresponding weight losses during baking were 9.05%, 7.67% and 7.2%, respectively.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #195 on: November 07, 2012, 06:22:48 PM »
Norma,

I suspect that the amount of yeast was large enough that it didn't really matter what you did to the dough.

In order to get more bottom crispiness, which is characteristic of a real Buddy's pizza from my research, I think you would need to lower the bake temperature and bake for a longer time. According to Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62915.html#msg62915, the Buddy's pizzas are baked for 12 minutes in an infrared conveyor oven; as noted at Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795, the bake temperature is 495 degrees F. I do not know much about infrared conveyor ovens but according to Tom Lehmann in a PMQ Think tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=22979#p22979, the temperature of the top and bottom emitters can be set at the desired values along with the bake time. As noted in that post, the pans should be dark pans. Later in the same thread, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=23106#p23106, Tom notes that an infrared conveyor oven can bake like a deck oven. That is what Buddy's apparently used before it went to conveyor ovens. See also John Correll's PMQTT post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=8278#p8278. I mention all of this to give you an idea as to how Buddy's apparently bakes its pizzas. If you can't lower the temperature of your deck oven at market and use a longer bake time, I can't say whether you can get the same bottom crust characteristic as a real Buddy's pizza.

An additional possible advantage of using a longer, lower bake temperature is that the cheese may not blacken up as much. However, that is something that would need to be tested. With an infrared conveyor oven, the top emitter could be set at a temperature that cooks the top of the pizza without turning the cheese too dark.

Peter


Peter,

I used 0.60369% IDY, so I wouldnít think that would have been too much yeast for a one day cold ferment.  When tempering the dough it seemed okay.

Before I decided to purchased the small deck oven I use, I had looked into air impingement ovens.  I thought about them and I thought would have to many problems understanding how to operate them.  I also wanted to be able to make my pizzas the old-fashioned way in a deck oven.  I also thought of maybe how high the electric bills might be with one of those conveyor ovens.  Since I run propane I would think it would be cheaper.  Thanks for all of the helpful links to understand how conveyor ovens work for a pizza something like BuddyĎs. 

I can see the advantages to using one of the newer conveyor ovens, but I am stuck with what I have.  You may be right that I might not ever get my Buddyís clones right on the bottom crust.  I wonder why when I bake my Greek style pizzas in the blackbuster pan that the bottom crust does get crispy.  They are also baked right on the deck of my oven.  The first pizza I made in this thread with the blackbuster pan did brown better on the bottom crust. 

I wish I could turn down my oven in temperature, but then my regular pies would be all fouled up.  I guess I will just have to settle on what I can do.   

The only cheese that did blacken up too much yesterday for my tastes was the cheese blend (of Italian blend and brick cheese).  I had just purchased the Italian blend to see what would happen, but believe that is why the third pizza cheese browned too much.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #196 on: November 07, 2012, 06:24:27 PM »
Norma,

You previously indicated that the dough ball weights were 277 grams, or 9.77 ounces. With 4 ounces of pizza sauce and 8 ounces of cheese, the corresponding weight losses during baking were 9.05%, 7.67% and 7.2%, respectively.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting what the weight losses were for the 3 pizzas yesterday.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #197 on: November 07, 2012, 06:31:54 PM »
The first pizza I made in this thread with the blackbuster pan did brown better on the bottom crust. 

Norma,

Was it only the first pizza that you used the blockbuster pan for? If so, that might be the pan to use.

Peter

Offline Skee

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #198 on: November 07, 2012, 06:43:52 PM »
What kind of oil did you use to grease your steel pan?  I canít seem to be able to achieve the crunchy bottom.
I typically use peanut oil but for these two I used olive oil in a sprayer as a sub.  I pour maybe a tablespoon of oil in each pan and then use a pastry brush to spread it over the bottom and up on the sides, so there's a thin, but noticeable sheen of oil.  When I first got the pans I also put a small swipe of Crisco into the corners and along the sides at cheese height (think this was at PizzaHog's suggestion in the Buddy's thread), but I don't need that now that the pans have been used a while. 

Offline Tdavis

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #199 on: November 07, 2012, 08:35:05 PM »
Norma, have you tried using something with a higher saturated fat content, like lard, in the bottom of your pan?


 

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