Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 244660 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2075 on: March 01, 2014, 09:37:00 AM »
Norma,

What I found interesting in the first piece about that sauce is that for a Detroit style pizza sauce to be "authentic", it should be cooked. I know that the Detroit Style Pizza Co cooks its sauce, as did its former Cloverleaf Pizza unit, but I do not recall that we ever did learn whether Buddy's or the other well known Detroit style pizza places cooked their sauce. In Buddy's case, years ago they noted on their website that they used Stanislaus tomato products. Later they revamped their website and no longer mentioned Stanislaus by name but I was told by a customer service rep at Buddy's that they had not made major changes in the tomatoes they used. I mention this because pizza operators rarely cook fresh pack tomatoes.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2076 on: March 01, 2014, 10:02:54 AM »
Norma,

What I found interesting in the first piece about that sauce is that for a Detroit style pizza sauce to be "authentic", it should be cooked. I know that the Detroit Style Pizza Co cooks its sauce, as did its former Cloverleaf Pizza unit, but I do not recall that we ever did learn whether Buddy's or the other well known Detroit style pizza places cooked their sauce. In Buddy's case, years ago they noted on their website that they used Stanislaus tomato products. Later they revamped their website and no longer mentioned Stanislaus by name but I was told by a customer service rep at Buddy's that they had not made major changes in the tomatoes they used. I mention this because pizza operators rarely cook fresh pack tomatoes.

Peter

Peter,

I guess I don't make an ďauthenticĒ Detroit style pizza sauce because my sauce is not cooked.  I recall when I tasted the frozen Buddy's pizza.  It sure did not taste like their sauce was cooked, but I could be wrong.  I recently talked to Tom about how to make a take and bake pizza so the sauce would taste the same as when a pizza is freshly baked.  What Tom told me I thought was interesting and something I did not know before.

I know most pizza operators don't cook their fresh pack tomatoes. 

I wonder why Detroit Style Pizza Co. says to be ďauthenticĒ the pizza sauce should be cooked.

Norma

Offline pwc123

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2077 on: March 01, 2014, 10:21:33 AM »
Norma and all,

I'm completely new to this, so bear with me...These pizzas look beyond mouth watering!  Being in NYC, I have no idea if it's even possible to get something like this so I'd like to make it myself as you all have.  My main limitation is that I don't have a mixer, is that an issue?  Will my consistency suffer if I attempt to do this by hand?  Is that even possible?

Also this is the pan I have which from my understanding is pretty popular around these parts: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Can I use this pan?  Any other suggestions on how I need to tweak the dough formula to fit this pan?  I saw towards the start of this thread that Norma was using a recipe for a 12x17 pan which might be a good starting point for me.

Sorry for all the rookie questions but you all are such a tremendous resource.  Hopefully by dinner tomorrow I'll have some pictures to share with you all!

Best,
Pete

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2078 on: March 01, 2014, 12:03:23 PM »
Norma and all,

I'm completely new to this, so bear with me...These pizzas look beyond mouth watering!  Being in NYC, I have no idea if it's even possible to get something like this so I'd like to make it myself as you all have.  My main limitation is that I don't have a mixer, is that an issue?  Will my consistency suffer if I attempt to do this by hand?  Is that even possible?

Also this is the pan I have which from my understanding is pretty popular around these parts: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VH70WM/?tag=pizzamaking-20

Can I use this pan?  Any other suggestions on how I need to tweak the dough formula to fit this pan?  I saw towards the start of this thread that Norma was using a recipe for a 12x17 pan which might be a good starting point for me.

Sorry for all the rookie questions but you all are such a tremendous resource.  Hopefully by dinner tomorrow I'll have some pictures to share with you all!

Best,
Pete

Pete,

Welcome to the forum!

I don't know if not having a mixer would be an issue because I never tried to make a Detroit style dough without a mixer.  Do you know how to do stretch and folds to make doughs stronger?  Maybe another member mixed by hand but I don't recall about anyone doing that. 

The pan you referenced looks like a good pan.  I purchased most my pans from Detroit Style Pizza Co. http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/  I am only using my 8Ēx10Ē pans now because I want the caramelized edges in each slice. 

Do you understand how to use the dough calculation tools at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_tools.html  You can use the dough calculation tools to make whatever size pizza you desire.  You just put the same numbers in for whatever formula you want to try.  You would just need to use the option of the size of the pan and use rectangular.  The expanded dough calculation tool is a good one.  http://pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2079 on: March 01, 2014, 12:08:09 PM »
Thanks, Norma!  And thanks for the early guidance.  After posting I've realized I am in waaaaay over my head so I need to do a heck of a lot more reading before getting my hands dirty.  For now, I'm attempting this recipe which is more my speed at this point: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/07/basic-square-pan-pizza-dough-recipe-sicilian-recipe.html

Even with this recipe the dough seems too dry, so I've upped the water ratio to 75%.  Anyway, I'll stop derailing your glorious thread and get to learning. 

Hope you have a nice weekend,
Pete

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2080 on: March 01, 2014, 12:58:42 PM »
Thanks, Norma!  And thanks for the early guidance.  After posting I've realized I am in waaaaay over my head so I need to do a heck of a lot more reading before getting my hands dirty.  For now, I'm attempting this recipe which is more my speed at this point: http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/07/basic-square-pan-pizza-dough-recipe-sicilian-recipe.html

Even with this recipe the dough seems too dry, so I've upped the water ratio to 75%.  Anyway, I'll stop derailing your glorious thread and get to learning. 

Hope you have a nice weekend,
Pete

Pete,

In no time you will get up to speed if you read enough here on the forum.  ;) If you understand hydrations and upping them you already have a good knowledge of what to do.  ;D  Best of luck with the recipe you are trying!

Hope you post your results.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2081 on: March 05, 2014, 09:27:32 AM »
Detroit style pizzas made at almost the end of the evening.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2082 on: March 06, 2014, 11:36:37 AM »

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2083 on: March 06, 2014, 12:01:05 PM »
Norma,

Maybe Shawn Randazzo has mentioned it before but in the article you referenced he said that the hydration for the DS type dough should be "around 70% or more". What hydration value are you currently using at market.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 03:18:48 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2084 on: March 06, 2014, 02:47:18 PM »
Norma,

Maybe Shawn Randazzo has mentioned it before but in the article you referenced he said that the hydration for the DS type dough should be "around 70% or more". What hydration value are you currently using at market/

Peter

Peter,

I could be wrong, but I thought Shawn Randazzo mentioned using at least a hydration of around 65% before.  I really don't know what hydration I am using now.  My dough formulation print out sheets use 75% hydration but I always add more water to the first and second mix depending on how wet I think the dough is and how the flour is.  I have pretty much learned how the dough should feel during the first and second mix and if I would be able to work with that wetter dough.  I would think if other employees (other than someone that is trained by Shawn) would just be learning to make a Detroit style dough they would have to learn how to mix and handle a dough that is higher than 70% in hydration.  I know at first I did not want to go much over 71% hydration until you pushed me to 75% hydration.  :-D

I also thought what Wes Pikula said about the brick cheese being similar to mild white cheddar was interesting.  The mild white cheddar I finally found for the boardwalk style pizzas really worked well for me on the Detroit style pizzas too.  That was a stroke of luck for me.

I still am not near at a level where a lot of pizza business are with offering Detroit style pizzas, but each week it seems like I sell more Detroit style pizzas and new customers hear about my Detroit style pizzas from former customers.  I am curious what warmer weather will bring.  At least once the dough is made the Detroit style pizzas are easy to make.  I am happy I went on this journey and thanks for all of your help in making the Detroit style pizzas happen for me at market.

What Wesley Pikula said in the article I thought was interesting.

Wesley Pikula, vice president of operations for Buddyís Pizza, described the defining features of Detroitís original square pizza. ďWe place the pepperoni under the cheese, in part to flavor the crust, and so it doesnít burn during the cooking process,Ē he said. ďWe use brick cheese fromWisconsin (a medium-soft cheese similar to a white cheddar), and we place the sauce on top of all the ingredients.Ē

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2085 on: March 14, 2014, 12:22:47 PM »
This article is about Dr. McGeorge sharing his gluten-free eating experiences, but it also goes into the kitchen of Buddy's pizza at about 2 minutes 22 seconds into the video to show what Buddy's pizza does so there is no contamination between their gluten-free pizzas and their other pizzas.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/lifestyle/health/dr-mcgeorge-shares-his-glutenfree-experience/-/2300442/24960808/-/q43ji6z/-/index.html   

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2086 on: March 19, 2014, 10:47:47 PM »
Recent article about Via 313 and the Hunt brothers.  http://austin.eater.com/archives/2014/03/19/via-313s-brothers-hunt-talk-detroitstyle-pizza-in-austin.php  I have seen recently they have gotten a lot of rave reviews.  Kudos to them!  8)

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2087 on: March 20, 2014, 09:16:26 AM »
There is a link at the bottom of the article that Norma referenced that takes one to other Via313 articles at http://austin.eater.com/tags/via-313.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2088 on: March 20, 2014, 09:56:26 AM »
Peter,

Other direct link articles on the web recently about Via 313.

http://www.foodandwine.com/blogs/2014/3/17/the-5-best-things-zach-brooks-ate-at-sxsw 

http://eater.com/archives/2014/03/17/the-38-essential-pizzerias-across-america-march-2014.php 

http://austin.eater.com/archives/2014/03/17/vote-for-austins-best-pizza-round-one.php

I think Via 313 is better at promoting Detroit style pizza than the Detroit Style Pizza Co is.   

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2089 on: April 04, 2014, 08:10:27 AM »
I thought this was an interesting article about Buddy's Pizza.  I found the article on facebook posted as their ďthrowback ThursdayĒ.

http://www.corpmagazine.com/break-room/picture-that/throwback-thursdays/thank-the-supreme-court-for-everything-that-makes-buddys-pizza-so-delicious/

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2090 on: April 06, 2014, 08:38:55 PM »
Brown Dogís Detroit-style Brooklyn Bridge pizza wins at International Pizza Challenge.

http://www.telluridenews.com/articles/2014/04/06/business/doc533f397373c8f254892047.txt   

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2091 on: April 06, 2014, 11:24:48 PM »
They look so happy.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2092 on: April 09, 2014, 09:23:36 PM »
I used a bigger Detroit style dough ball and a bigger steel pan for some garlic bread sticks.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2093 on: April 09, 2014, 11:39:14 PM »
 :)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2094 on: April 29, 2014, 10:16:20 PM »
Today members of a family came to market and saw the Detroit style pizzas that are offered at market.  They did talk to me and said they lived in Detroit for a long while and now live in our area for about the same amount of time they did live in Detroit.  They asked about the Detroit style pizzas and purchased three whole Detroit style pizzas after eating slices.  They all said my Detroit style pizzas do taste just like Buddy's fresh pizzas.  I was happy to hear that because I never really had customers that had actually tried fresh Buddy's pizzas.  The one lady said she is soon going to Detroit to visit again and she will be visiting Buddy's and purchasing Buddy's pizzas.  She said she would bring me a souvenir from Buddy's.  The family was so happy that I offer Detroit style pizzas near where they live now.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2095 on: April 30, 2014, 10:24:04 AM »
That's great Norma....what it's all about!  :chef:

CB
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2096 on: April 30, 2014, 02:45:47 PM »
That's great Norma....what it's all about!  :chef:

CB

Bob,

It was the help of the other Buddy's thread (and all of the members that contributed there) in combination with a by chance try of Trenton Bill recipe, along with Peter's help that I could make a decent Detroit style pizza.

I was waiting for someone to try my Detroit style pizzas that have actually have been to a Buddy's.  I am interested in what she thinks of Buddy's pizzas after tasting my Detroit style pizzas.

The lady told me Hungry Howie's subs are the best anywhere.  I asked her how their pizzas were and she said she was only interested in their subs.  Now it makes me wonder what are so good about Hungry Howie's subs.  :-D I asked the family if they ever tried Shields' and the other Detroit style pizzerias but she said they never did because they were satisfied with Buddy's.  I guess most people do stick with what they like.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2097 on: May 02, 2014, 11:21:20 AM »
I hear ya Norma....their subs look pretty interesting. They use their "flavored crust" dough.  :chef:

CB
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2098 on: May 02, 2014, 05:52:03 PM »
I hear ya Norma....their subs look pretty interesting. They use their "flavored crust" dough.  :chef:

CB

Thanks Bob for the photo!  I agree those subs look interesting.

Norma

Offline hurkleburkle

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2099 on: May 11, 2014, 04:10:10 PM »
I hear ya Norma....their subs look pretty interesting. They use their "flavored crust" dough.  :chef:

CB
I worked for Hungry Howies for about 5 years.  The subs are basically calzones with sub ingredients.  The dough itself is just plain dough (no flavoring) and after it is cooked we coated it with garlic flavored oil (phase) and parmesan.  The meats and veggies were rather plain and were the same as we used on the pizzas.  We used imitation swiss cheese, however, instead of the normal pizza cheese.