Author Topic: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 152263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ev

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1810
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Lancaster Co. Pa.
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #820 on: December 18, 2012, 10:41:23 AM »
I saw the basil leaf in the extra sauce that Buddy's sent to Norma. It looked the same as what's in the Saporito sauce that Norma uses. It looks like a fresh leaf that has undergone the canning process, which I'm fairly certain involves some degree of heat, not just a fresh leaf that a worker added to an uncooked sauce.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 10:42:57 AM by Ev »


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #821 on: December 18, 2012, 04:04:51 PM »
I saw the basil leaf in the extra sauce that Buddy's sent to Norma. It looked the same as what's in the Saporito sauce that Norma uses. It looks like a fresh leaf that has undergone the canning process, which I'm fairly certain involves some degree of heat, not just a fresh leaf that a worker added to an uncooked sauce.

Steve,

You can see how Stanislaus processes its fresh-pack tomatoes at http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/products/not-from-concentrate/process_comparison.

Peter

Offline Ev

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1810
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Lancaster Co. Pa.
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #822 on: December 18, 2012, 07:47:07 PM »
So yes, I'd say the second step where the product is brought to 205 degrees produces a wilted fresh basil leaf, which is what we found in both the Stanislaus product and the extra sauce from Buddy's.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #823 on: December 18, 2012, 08:46:52 PM »
Norma,

I couldn't quite tell from the first sentence in your post as quoted above whether you think that the basil leaf in the sample of the Original Sauce you got from Buddy's was a fresh basil leaf, or a fragment of a basil leaf, but I took your statement to mean fresh basil, not dehydrated.

In my experience, a fresh basil leaf put into a can of tomatoes at the processing facility will turn a dull green or brown-like color while in the can. In fact, it will look much like the fragment of the basil leaf in the photo that you posted in Reply 914 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg228248.html#msg228248.

In order to divine what Buddy's may be using for tomatoes in its Original Sauce, and how it makes its original Sauce, it might help to revisit what we know about Buddy's sauce. First, at the original version of its website, Buddy's said that its sauce was made with a “blend of Stanislaus premium tomato products”, along with a proprietary blend of spices and herbs (Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436). Second, former Buddy's employee lufty said that the Buddy's sauce was "tomato paste, water, and seasoning whisked together ahead of time" (Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795).

If we do a mash-up of the above two statements, I think a case can be made that Buddy's is blending the Stanislaus 7/11 product with the Stanislaus Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce w/Fresh Basil (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Saporito-Pizza-Sauce-w-Fresh-Basil.pdf), thinning the blend with water, and adding seasonings. The 7/11 tomatoes would provide the skins and the Stanislaus Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce w/Fresh Basil (it is basil leaves in the plural) would provide not only a thick tomato product but also fresh basil. Moreover, I'm quite certain that the Stanislaus Saporito Super Heavy Pizza has a Brix reading of 20, which places that product at the low end of the Bx range (20-26) for the Stanislaus Full Red Tomato Paste (note, however, that the Full Red Tomato Paste has no basil, http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Tomato-Paste.pdf, which rules that product out of contention).

Blending the 7/11 and Saporito products referenced above would not be a new blend. Nick Sasso, who is one of the core members of the PMQ Think Tank, used such a blend, along with water and seasonings, when he had his pizzeria. See, for example, one of his many posts on this blend at the PMQTT at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=46089&sid=6ae7c613506b58cb03f49797b2ff4a25#p46089. While I was at the PMQ TT, I also noted that you at one time tried a similar blend, as you noted at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=59030&sid=6ae7c613506b58cb03f49797b2ff4a25#p59030. So, if your memory on such a sauce is good, you might recall whether that sauce was like the one you got from Buddy's, at least in terms of color and consistency.

Peter

Peter,

I did mean a fresh basil leaf that was processed was in the Buddy’s extra sauce.  It was a dull green.  I took some more pictures of the extra Buddy’s sauce today.  Steve put the basil leaf on the top lid of the extra sauce container from Buddy‘s today, so it can be seen better.  I also took a pictures of the basil that is in my Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce today. 

I also am not sure if I saw any basil in the post at 814 where I posted the picture of the 7/11 sauce, but you posted it was Reply 914.  We aren’t even at Reply 914 yet.

I agree it is good to try and divine what Buddy’s may be using for tomatoes in its Original Sauce, and how it makes its Original Sauce.  Your explanations are good for what Buddy’s employee lufty said the Buddy’s sauce was.  I think if we did the mash-up of the two statements, Buddy’s is blending the 7/11 product with the Stanislaus Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce w/Fresh Basil then thinning the blend with water, and adding seasonings.  It makes sense that the 7/11 tomatoes would provide the skin and the Saporito Super Heavy w/Fresh Basil would provide not only a thick tomato product but also the fresh basil.  Steve and I noticed today the 7/11 product alone was more chunky that the Buddy’s extra sauce that was unfrozen again today, so it would make perfect sense to me that the Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce w/basil is added to the 7/11 tomato product with some water and spices to make the Original sauce less chunky.  At first Steve and I thought maybe Buddy’s might have ground the 7/11 tomatoes some to make them less chunky, but it makes more sense that Buddy’s is blending two Stanislaus premium tomato products.

I didn’t know Nick Sasson on PMQ Think Tank used such a blend when he had his pizzeria.  I used to use something similar when I posted on the Red Sauce monthly challenge awhile ago and did blend those two Stanislaus products from the advice of a pizzeria near me when I first starting making my sauce for market.

These are the pictures taken today.  First two pictures are of my sauce with the basil (first one was thinned sauce and the second picture was of the sauce before it was thinned with water).  Third picture is of the basil leaf still in the extra Buddy’s sauce on the lid.  Fourth picture is of the 7/11 sauce not doctored up on the left side of the picture and Buddy’s extra sauce on the right side of the picture.

I do think the color and consistency would be right using those Stanislaus products for the Original Buddy’s Sauce. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #824 on: December 18, 2012, 09:04:48 PM »
I also am not sure if I saw any basil in the post at 814 where I posted the picture of the 7/11 sauce, but you posted it was Reply 914.  We aren’t even at Reply 914 yet.

Norma,

LOL. I meant Reply 814 but when I went back to that post I saw that I mistook the handle of your spoon for a piece of basil that I thought you picked out of the sauce and placed on top.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #825 on: December 18, 2012, 09:13:47 PM »
Norma,

LOL. I meant Reply 814 but when I went back to that post I saw that I mistook the handle of your spoon for a piece of basil that I thought you picked out of the sauce and placed on top.

Peter

Peter,

That was a good one!  :-D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #826 on: December 18, 2012, 09:19:09 PM »
I just wanted to post tonight that the two doughs in the steel pans tempering in the Hatco Unit might not had enough yeast, or either the amount didn’t give the dough enough of a lift.  It was almost 70 degrees when I arrived at market this morning.  The two doughs sure didn’t look like the fermented much.  The poppy seeds didn’t show anything really, so I don’t think this is a good why of seeing how the dough ferments in the steel pans.  I even turned the Hatco Unit on and had the doughs tempering for 2 ˝ hrs. this morning at 114 degrees F, and the dough wouldn’t ferment much more.

These are the pictures of the doughs and also the first pizza.  The dough didn’t rise enough when it was baked.  I didn’t put the sauce on until after the bake to make sure I didn’t weight the dough down before the bake.   

I also wanted to post that the Buddy’s clone emergency dough did make a very good pizza today and that dough fermented nicely.  Steve and I sure didn’t miss the salt in the Buddy’s clone emergency dough.  We even thought it tasted like a Mack’s pizza with the blend of cheeses I used today.  I used Nasonville one year aged cheddar, Nasonville pizza cheese, AMPI mild white cheddar and my two mozzarellas.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #827 on: December 18, 2012, 09:20:36 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #828 on: December 18, 2012, 09:28:08 PM »
This was the second pizza made from the dough that was tempering in the Hatco Unit from yesterday and was tempered more when the Hatco Unit was turned on for a few hours.  It can be seen on the slice that it sure didn’t rise much after the bake.  The sauce on this pizza was also applied after the bake.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #829 on: December 19, 2012, 07:55:47 AM »
The Buddy’s clone emergency dough with no salt worked out well yesterday.  The first picture taken of the spacing of the poppy seeds was taken at 10:30 AM.  The dough was then put into the steel pan and was left to proof for 3 hrs. at the ambient room temperature of about 74 degrees F.  It would have been ready sooner, but I was too busy making out pizzas to try it out then.  The Buddy’s clone emergency tempered dough was dressed with 1.25 ounces of my regular pepperoni, 8 ounces of the cheese blend (same one I had used all day, except for one Buddy’s clone pizza) and 4 ounces of my regular pizza sauce.  It rose fine this time during the bake.  The bake weight of this pizza was 575 grams.  I am still amazed that no salt is needed in the dough in this type of pizza.

The quick mix with just the flat beater in my Kitchen Aid did make a good dough.  I still don’t understand that, but it worked.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #830 on: December 19, 2012, 08:00:06 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #831 on: December 19, 2012, 08:04:04 AM »
These are various pictures of Buddy’s clone pizzas made yesterday.  Peter’s suggestion to use 0.80% IDY for a one day cold ferment was a good one.  The doughs did rise nicely and faster in the steel pans.  I did use my Hatco Unit at 114 degrees F to help these dough temper faster.  All the skins were covered while tempering and some did develop a thin dry skin, but that didn’t seem to matter.

One customer had wanted to purchase an 8-square cheese pizza and I didn’t have a dough ball tempered.  I wondered if I could get a Buddy’s clone 8-square done in one hour with tempering the dough from a cold state right out of the pizza prep fridge and then having the pizza baked in one hour.  I was watching how fast the doughs had tempered in the steel pan all day in the Hatco Unit at 114 degrees F and thought why not give it a try.  It did work out okay.  Using 0.80% IDY was the reason I think this worked out okay. Thanks Peter for recommending for me to try 0.80% IDY for a one day cold ferment.  I think the extra IDY makes the dough temper faster.

All these pizzas did have the sauce added before the bake.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:15:46 AM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #832 on: December 19, 2012, 08:07:40 AM »
This Buddy’s clone 8-square pizza was made with turkey bacon, the pepperoni Steve had brought me, the blend of cheeses I was using yesterday, with the addition of Gouda goat cheese and the 7/11 tomatoes doctored up by Steve.  This pizza was really good in my opinion.  The pepperoni was placed under the cheeses and the turkey bacon was placed on top of the other dressing. 

I found it interesting that when Steve and I had tried the 7/11 sauce when it was doctored up like Buddy’s it tasted a lot different tasted fresh, then the sauce was baked on the pizza.  That was one reason I didn’t really think the extra sauce that Buddy’s had sent me tasted the same as on the real Buddy’s pizza.  It leads me to believe that sauces do change in taste when baked on a pizza.  The sauce still tasted good, but not the same as when it was tasted fresh.  This sauce wasn’t thinned with water.

All the steel pans were oiled with Canola oil yesterday and I am not adding as much oil as I did before.

The only bad news that I got yesterday was Tom Kiefer told me he can’t get any brick cheese.  He said his supplier told him in our area that not enough pizzerias use brick cheese.

I only got to try the Buddy’s clone emergency dough pizza and the one with the turkey bacon yesterday.  All the rest of the Buddy’s clone pizzas did sell yesterday.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #833 on: December 19, 2012, 08:09:49 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #834 on: December 19, 2012, 08:13:57 AM »
I had a Buddy’s clone dough ball leftover that wasn’t enough weight for a Buddy’s 4-square pizza at the end of the day.  It was just extra dough.  I used it to make a Christmas tree pizza.  The Mirror aluminum pan was just oiled with Canola oil and the dough wasn’t tempered at all in the aluminum pan.  The Christmas tree pizza turned out okay.

Merry Christmas everyone!

I ran out of regular dough balls for my NY style pizzas yesterday a little early because of a major accident on Monday in mixing those doughs, but I won’t get into that on this thread a lot.  Steve asked me why I didn’t take a picture of that mess, but I said at the time on Monday I was too upset with the mess I had to clean up.  Somehow, and I surely don’t know why, but my mixer was put on speed three, so I guess anyone reading this would know what might happen.  I don’t ever use speed three to mix dough at market and only used speed one to grate my cheeses too.  I still have some stuff that needs to be cleaned more on Friday from that mess.  I even had sticky dough and flour all over me on Monday.  I can laugh about it now, but sure couldn’t at the time.  How that knob got turned to speed 3 will always be a mystery to me, but I know from now on, I first will check what speed the mixer is on.  :-D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #835 on: December 19, 2012, 09:53:05 AM »
Norma,

Overall, it looks like you and Steve had a good pizza making session with the Buddy's clone pizzas.

Here are my collective thoughts:

1. I agree that the poppy seed trick may not work as well or as reliably for skins that are spread out in pans. However, the two pizzas that you used for the poppy seed test (shown in Replies 826-828) still look very good to my eye. And it sounds like you were able to sell them. So, I assume they were good enough to sell.

2. I thought the emergency Buddy's clone pizza without the salt was a killer pizza. That is the one shown in Replies 829 and 830. It is just about perfect, and I am especially impressed with the appearance of the bottom crust. You might also be interested to know that the final baked weight of the pizza, 575 grams (20.28 ounces), was within 0.18 ounces of the calculated weight for the pepperoni slices (extrapolated from three slices to four slices) that dicepackaged purchased from Buddy's and reported on at Reply 127 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81715.html#msg81715. However, we can't take this to mean that we have all of the numbers right. Since the Buddy's pizzas are custom assembled without using weights for the cheese, sauce and toppings, a swing of one ounce in either direction for the cheese and sauce can still produce numbers that fit those of dicepackage. Also, we still don't know the weights of dough balls that Buddy's uses for its square pizzas. FYI, the weight loss for the pizza you made was 8.9%. Based on the spacing of the poppy seeds, the dough from which that pizza was made rose by about 250% (between a double and a triple).

3. The Buddy's clone dough with 0.80% IDY does look about right for a one-day cold fermented dough. Sometime you might try increasing that to 0.90% IDY to see if that speeds up things even further.

4. My experience with pizza sauces confirms what you and Steve noted about how the flavor of a sauce when baked is not the same as unbaked. However, if you like the sauce unbaked better than baked, you can always add the sauce after the pizza has been baked, at least for those pizzas where it makes sense to do so.

5. If I recall correctly, you are still awaiting samples of the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni, and that you are awaiting information from Kraft on the brick cheese, and that you plan to call Land 'O Lakes, also on the matter of brick cheese.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 04:19:43 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #836 on: December 19, 2012, 12:26:46 PM »
Norma,

Overall, it looks like you and Steve had a good pizza making session with the Buddy's clone pizzas.

Here are my collective thoughts:

1. I agree that the poppy seed trick may not work as well or as reliably for skins that are spread out in pans. However, the two pizzas that you used for the poppy seed test (shown in Replies 826-828) still look very good to my eye. And it sounds like you were able to sell them. So, I assume they were good enough to sell.

2. I thought the emergency Buddy's clone pizza without the salt was a killer pizza. That is the one shown in Replies 829 and 830. It is just about perfect, and I am especially impressed with the appearance of the bottom crust. You might also be interested to know that the final baked weight of the pizza, 575 grams (20.28 ounces), was within 0.18 ounces of the calculated weight for the pepperoni slices (extrapolated from three slices to four slices) that dicepackaged purchased from Buddy's and reported on at Reply 127 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81715.html#msg81715. However, we can't take this to mean that we have all of the numbers right. Since the Buddy's pizzas are custom assembled without using weights for the cheese, sauce and toppings, a swing of one ounce in either direction for the cheese and sauce can still produce numbers that fit those of dicepackage. Also, we still don't know the weights of dough balls that Buddy's uses for its square pizzas. FYI, the weight loss for the pizza you made was 8.9%.

3. The Buddy's clone dough with 0.80% IDY does look about right for a one-day cold fermented dough. Sometime you might try increasing that to 0.90% IDY to see if that speeds up things even further.

4. My experience with pizza sauces confirms what you and Steve noted about how the flavor of a sauce when baked is not the same as unbaked. However, if you like the sauce unbaked better than baked, you can always add the sauce after the pizza has been baked, at least for those pizzas where it makes sense to do so.

5. If I recall correctly, you are still awaiting samples of the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni, and that you are awaiting information from Kraft on the brick cheese, and that you plan to call Land 'O Lakes, also on the matter of brick cheese.

Peter

Peter,

I also think Steve and I had a good pizza making session with the Buddy’s clone pizzas yesterday, since we are learning new things each week in what to do, or not to do, with tempering of the dough, how to dress the pies, what cheeses can be used, oiling of the steel pans and so forth.  I still need to come up with a few extra toppings Buddy’s clone pizzas to offer each week that will stay consistent.  I probably want to add two other than the ones with pepperoni and cheese, or just cheese for right now.

1.  The two pizzas made with the dough made the day before and then tempered overnight in the Hatco Unit without added heat did look okay, but I only sold 2 slices of those pizzas and gave Steve the rest of the slices to take home.  Since I am just starting to sell this type of pizza at market, I don’t want potential customers to think that the crumb isn’t as moist and airy as it can be.  I don’t know how the slices I gave Steve tasted if he reheated them or ate them cold.  I didn’t even taste one of those slices.  I did make 3 other Detroit style pizza fairly early with using the Hatco Unit, so I guess that would be my best thing to try now, unless you think I should try another experiment with a higher amount of yeast to give the dough more lift in a room temperature Buddy’s clone dough.  

2.  Thank you for telling me that the Buddy’s clone pizza without salt was within 0.18 ounces of the calculated weight for the pepperoni slices that dice package purchased from Buddy’s.  Thanks for also calculating the final pizza dough loss percentage.  I know that we can’t take that to mean that we have all the numbers right.  I told Steve I wish I could just make emergency doughs at market, because I thought that pizza was really good.  Since I am getting older though, I don’t even know what time I would have to wake-up to do that, or if I would make it until the end of the day when it gets much hotter in my area.  I like the Buddy’s clone pizzas without salt as much as I do with salt.  

3.  The Buddy’s clone doughs with 0.80% IDY did temper much better for a one-day cold fermented dough.    The market management announced over the loudspeakers yesterday if stand holders need to get into market over the weekend to prepare for Monday special arrangements will be needed.  I called the manager at the market this morning and he said since I have a key I can get into market Sunday to make my doughs.  That will save me from trying to have to change my dough formulation for the Buddy’s clone dough and my regular NY style dough.  I might try out one dough ball made with 0.90% IDY to see what happens Monday.  

4.   I think I will still add the sauce before the bake, because when the pizzas are cut if the sauce is added after the bake the sauce wants to spread more and then my sauce wouldn’t be really hot, unless there is a reheat, or I would used warmed sauce.  I have a container that I could use to warm sauce, but that is one more added thing to the electric bill, because it would need to be turned on all day.  Do you think I should mix 7/11 and some of my Saporito Extra Heavy Pizza Sauce for Tuesday with some added ingredients?  Steve has family things planned for Monday so I will be the one that will be doing everything on Monday at market.  I might come home Monday and crash or at least have a few drinks.

5.   You are correct that I am still awaiting for the samples of the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni.  It is supposed to be here tomorrow, and I called Keith again this morning and he said it is still scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. I also called Land ‘O Lakes foodservice division this morning and from what they told me they don’t carry any brick cheese.  I also called Fritz and from Kraft this morning and he said he did work on finding out if Kraft still sells the brick cheese, but hasn’t given it a lot of work yet.  Fritz said he will work on finding out if Kraft still has brick cheese today.  Fritz said he has my email and the notes from me.  

Any more instructions if I receive the Margherita coarse pepperoni tomorrow?

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #837 on: December 19, 2012, 01:19:34 PM »
Norma,

I think I will still add the sauce before the bake, because when the pizzas are cut if the sauce is added after the bake the sauce wants to spread more and then my sauce wouldn’t be really hot, unless there is a reheat, or I would used warmed sauce.  I have a container that I could use to warm sauce, but that is one more added thing to the electric bill, because it would need to be turned on all day.  Do you think I should mix 7/11 and some of my Saporito Extra Heavy Pizza Sauce for Tuesday with some added ingredients?
Since you have both the Stanislaus 7/11s and the Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce w/Fresh Basil, I think it would be a great idea to try out a combination of those two products. I was playing around with Nick Sasso's sauce recipe but it is not clear whether his combination will produce the sodium numbers I am after based on the Buddy's Nutrition information. I'd also like to play around with the Foremost Farms sodium numbers for its brick cheese to see if I can come up with a plausible combination of the two Stanislaus tomato products sodium-wise when combined with water. If I come up with something of merit, I will let you know.

Any more instructions if I receive the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni tomorrow?
One of the things that would interest me is how much 20 slices of the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni weighs. That is the number of slices that I took away from the photo at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg. There is no rush to do the weighing. It can wait until you plan to use the Margherita pepperoni slices to make an actual pizza.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22150
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #838 on: December 19, 2012, 04:15:16 PM »
Norma,
Since you have both the Stanislaus 7/11s and the Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce w/Fresh Basil, I think it would be a great idea to try out a combination of those two products. I was playing around with Nick Sasso's sauce recipe but it is not clear whether his combination will produce the sodium numbers I am after based on the Buddy's Nutrition information. I'd also like to play around with the Foremost Farms sodium numbers for its brick cheese to see if I can come up with a plausible combination of the two Stanislaus tomato products sodium-wise when combined with water. If I come up with something of merit, I will let you know.
One of the things that would interest me is how much 20 slices of the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni weighs. That is the number of slices that I took away from the photo at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg. There is no rush to do the weighing. It can wait until you plan to use the Margherita pepperoni slices to make an actual pizza.

Peter

Peter,

It is interesting that you were playing around with the sodium numbers based on Buddy’s Nutrition information in combination with Nick Sasso’s sauce recipe and you would like to play around with the Foremost Farms sodium number for its brick cheese to see if you can come up with a plausible combination of the two Stanislaus tomato products sodium-wise when combined with water.  I just wanted to tell you that Steve and I did taste salt, or some other ingredient that tasted like salt in the extra Buddy sauce.  I don’t know how many times I can keep freezing the extra Buddy’s sauce, but I will keep freezing it until it tastes bad.

If I receive the Marherita coarse grind pepperoni tomorrow, I will play around with it some and will weigh 20 slices out and also weigh different slices. I am anxious to taste it without it being baked some.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22125
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #839 on: December 20, 2012, 10:11:02 AM »
It is interesting that you were playing around with the sodium numbers based on Buddy’s Nutrition information in combination with Nick Sasso’s sauce recipe and you would like to play around with the Foremost Farms sodium number for its brick cheese to see if you can come up with a plausible combination of the two Stanislaus tomato products sodium-wise when combined with water.  I just wanted to tell you that Steve and I did taste salt, or some other ingredient that tasted like salt in the extra Buddy sauce.  I don’t know how many times I can keep freezing the extra Buddy’s sauce, but I will keep freezing it until it tastes bad.
 
Norma,

The different Stanislaus products that are of interest to us in this thread have different amounts of salt but they are quite comparable. For example, the Stanislaus 7/11 product has about 75mg sodium per ounce. The Stanislaus Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce with Fresh Basil has about 64mg sodium per ounce. Those amounts of sodium for four ounces of sauce would be equivalent to about 1/8 teaspoon of salt or maybe a bit less. The Stanislaus Full Red Tomato Paste has no added salt but it does have a small amount of natural sodium. That product is not a candidate for our purposes because it contains no basil leaves. I might add here that another possible candidate for your purposes is the Stanislaus Super Dolce Super Sweet Heavy Pizza Sauce (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Super-Dolce-Pizza-Sauce.pdf). It has slightly more salt (about 71mg sodium per ounce) than the Saporito Heavy Pizza Sauce with Fresh Basil but it is sweeter. It also has basil leaves. Sweetness might be something to pay attention to when comparing your next sauce with the sample you have from Buddy's.

Since my last post, I have been playing around with the numbers for Nick Sasso's sauce using the Stanislaus 7/11 and Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce with Fresh Basil. From Nick's numbers, it appears that he is using around 36% water to dilute the mixture of the two types of tomato products. Using 4 ounces for the amount of sauce based on his recipe does appear to come close to the sodium numbers given in the Buddy's Nutrition information on a single-slice basis (one ounce of sauce on average). However, I found that I could get closer to the Buddy's sodium numbers by going to 50% water. For your purposes, you might try the 36% version, as follows:

7/11: 125 grams
Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce with Fresh Basil: 125 grams
Water: 90 grams

The above combination will produce about 12 ounces of sauce, or enough for about 3 Buddy's clone pizzas with 4 ounces of sauce each. Since it is quite possible that Nick's recipe produces a thicker sauce than what Buddy's might be using, you might start with 90 grams of water and, if necessary, gradually add more water until the sauce has about the same consistency as the Buddy's sauce sample. If possible, you should note the amount of additional water. FYI, at 50% water, you are talking about 125 grams of water. That amount of water will increase the total sauce weight to 13.22 ounces.

In addition to coming up with sodium numbers that are in the ballpark in relation to the sodium numbers in the Buddy's Nutrition information, the carbohydrate numbers and fiber numbers for the abovementioned sauce combinations also seem to be in the ballpark with the Buddy's Nutrition information. For all of my calculations, I assumed that Buddy's is using the Foremost Farms brick cheese with 360mg of sodium for two ounces of that cheese.

I also tested the carbohydrate numbers when using a 10-ounce dough ball as opposed to a 9-ounce dough ball (both without salt) and it appears that the numbers support the 9-ounce dough ball weight better than the 10-ounce dough ball weight. It didn't matter whether I used the 36% or 50% water numbers. So, until we come up with better intelligence on Buddy's dough ball weights, I would stick with the 9-ounce dough ball for the Buddy's 4-square pizza.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 10:29:30 AM by Pete-zza »