Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 108181 times)

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Offline norma427

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Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« on: October 17, 2012, 10:41:36 AM »
This pizza was made with ideas from two different men named Bill.  Bill from Trenton had tried the Carmelina San Marzano tomatoes and sent me some.  Bill from Trenton, also told me to try his dough recipe he used with the Carmelina San Marzanos.  Bill/SFNM also provided a great video for using the Carmelina San Marzanos to make a great sauce, which I posted about at Reply 3 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21434.msg216282.html#msg216282  I used Bill/SFNM guidelines for making the tomato sauce using the Carmelina San Marzanos.  I used kosher salt, black pepper, sugar and wine vinegar and thought the tomato sauce turned out very tasty and fresh when tasted.  The sauce was made Monday evening. 

I used Billís from Trenton recipe for the dough for this pizza.  I really like to see bakerís percents for all the ingredients when trying to make dough in bakerís percents, but thought I will give Billís from Trenton a try just like he gave it to me.  Bill used a 13Ē steel pan and I knew I only had a 12Ē black buster steel pan to try, but thought that still would be okay and my pizza would just be a little thicker.  I also looked at the salt amount Bill gave me and thought that sounded like a lot of salt, even though I didnít really know the bakerís percent of the salt.  I used Kosher salt.  I also looked at the amount of water to the flour and thought this dough was going to be sticky.  I mixed the dough in my Kitchen Aid mixer and the dough was sticky.   I gave the dough some stretch and folds and it was still sticky, so I just balled and oil the dough ball.  The dough was mixed late Monday evening.  Bill said he uses the dough in the same day and he rolls out his dough with a rolling pin, then docks, lets it proof, then parbakes before adding the cheese and sauce.  I decided to just oil the steel pan with corn oil, then let the dough proof a little.  The dough was brushed with herb garlic olive oil while it was proofing.  The Carmelina San Marzano sauce was then applied.  Next AMPI mild cheddar and a blend of mozzarellas were applied (both Foremost Farms).  The top was dusted with Greek oregano and some drizzles of  Caremlina sauce.  Vermont smoked pepperoni was sliced and applied last.

The pizza turned out very tasty, with a good taste in the crust and also a very light crust.  The taste of the Carmelina San Marzano sauce went very well with this pizza. The Vermont smoked pepperoni was also a great addition in Steveís and my opinion.  Steve and I enjoyed this pizza very much.  I was surprised that the crust didnít taste salty at all.  The crispy caramelized edges was delicious.   :D

If anyone is interested, this is Bill from Trentonís dough recipe.  He said to use high gluten flour.  I used Kyrol flour.

8.8 ounces flour
6 ľ ounces water
Ĺ teaspoon IDY
1 teaspoon salt

Thanks to both Billís for the tasty pizza Steve and I enjoyed.   ;D

I would like to convert the recipe Bill gave me for my 12Ēx17Ē steel pan, but donít know how to go about doing those calculations.  Bill told me he found the formulation he used on the Buddyís or Shieldís thread, but I quickly looked though it and canít find the recipe Bill used. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 10:45:11 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 10:46:15 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 10:47:32 AM »
Norma
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Offline weemis

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 01:01:05 PM »
Nice! Now sell each slice for "2 Bills" and you're set!  :-D
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline Ev

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 02:14:16 PM »
Nice! Now sell each slice for "2 Bills" and you're set!  :-D

 :-D :-D

 It really was a good pizza, I must admit!  ;D

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 05:02:34 PM »
Nice! Now sell each slice for "2 Bills" and you're set!  :-D


 :-D :-D :-D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 05:04:36 PM »

 
It really was a good pizza, I must admit!  ;D


Steve,

Thanks!  :)  If I get the formulation figured out for a larger pizza in my bigger steel pans, maybe we will have a bigger one for next week.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2012, 08:44:23 PM »
I sure donít have any idea if this formulation figured out on the expanded dough calculation tool is right or not, for Billís pizza I made on Tuesday, because I am not sure how to do the calculations, but this is what I got to try for next Tuesday.  I used my standard Sicilian formulation as a base and just went from there.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2012, 08:54:17 PM »
Norma,

Are the flour and water quantities given in Bill's recipe by weight or by volume? And does he use regular or Kosher salt?

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2012, 09:41:16 PM »
Norma,

Are the flour and water quantities given in Bill's recipe by weight or by volume? And does he use regular or Kosher salt?

Peter

Peter,

The flour and water quantities Bill gave to me were in weight.  He used a 13" steel pan, but I used a 12" steel pan.  I want to use my 17"x12" steel pan for my next attempt and have my normal TF of 0.153 I usually use for my Sicilian pies. Bill said he used 8.8 ounces of high gluten flour and 6 1/4 ounces of water.  I found I had to add a little more flour to his recipe, to make it manageable.  I am not sure what the hydration was of Bill's recipe, but it seemed about 70% hydration to me, or a little higher.  I think Bill uses Kosher salt, or sea salt, but I am not sure.

I guess I messed everything up in doing the calculations.

Norma  
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 09:42:50 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2012, 09:59:34 PM »
I guess I messed everything up in doing the calculations.

Norma,

Don't worry about it. We will straighten things out.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 10:06:29 PM »
Norma,

Don't worry about it. We will straighten things out.

Peter



Thanks Peter!  :)  I just called Bill and he used regular salt.  I used kosher salt when I used his recipe.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2012, 10:01:41 AM »
Norma,

I did some calculations and used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the dough formulations set forth below:

Trenton Bill's Original Dough Recipe
High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Salt (2.2372%):
Total (173.86389%):
249.48 g  |  8.8 oz | 0.55 lbs
177.19 g  |  6.25 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.51 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
433.76 g | 15.3 oz | 0.96 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for a single 13" round pizza, with a corresponding thickness factor of 15.3/(3.14159 x 6.5 x 6.5) = 0.11527; no bowl residue compensation

Norma's Modification of Trenton Bill's Original Dough Recipe
Kyrol High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (1.924%):
Total (173.55069%):
249.47 g  |  8.8 oz | 0.55 lbs
177.18 g  |  6.25 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.51 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
4.8 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
432.96 g | 15.27 oz | 0.95 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for a single 12" round pizza, with a corresponding thickness factor of 15.27/(3.14159 x 6.5 x 6.5) = 0.13504; no bowl residue compensation

Norma's 12" x 17" Rectangular Pan Version of Trenton Bill's Original Dough Recipe
Kyrol High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2.2372%):
Total (173.86389%):
391.1 g  |  13.8 oz | 0.86 lbs
277.77 g  |  9.8 oz | 0.61 lbs
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
8.75 g | 0.31 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.82 tsp | 0.61 tbsp
679.99 g | 23.99 oz | 1.5 lbs | TF = 0.1175754
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.11527; bowl residue compensation = 2%

I will leave to you to make any further adjustments, such as using less salt (I assume Morton's Kosher salt).

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2012, 12:52:30 PM »
Norma,

I did some calculations and used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to come up with the dough formulations set forth below:

Trenton Bill's Original Dough Recipe
High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Salt (2.2372%):
Total (173.86389%):
249.48 g  |  8.8 oz | 0.55 lbs
177.19 g  |  6.25 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.51 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
5.58 g | 0.2 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
433.76 g | 15.3 oz | 0.96 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for a single 13" round pizza, with a corresponding thickness factor of 15.3/(3.14159 x 6.5 x 6.5) = 0.11527; no bowl residue compensation

Norma's Modification of Trenton Bill's Original Dough Recipe
Kyrol High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (1.924%):
Total (173.55069%):
249.47 g  |  8.8 oz | 0.55 lbs
177.18 g  |  6.25 oz | 0.39 lbs
1.51 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
4.8 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
432.96 g | 15.27 oz | 0.95 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: Dough is for a single 12" round pizza, with a corresponding thickness factor of 15.27/(3.14159 x 6.5 x 6.5) = 0.13504; no bowl residue compensation

Norma's 12" x 17" Rectangular Pan Version of Trenton Bill's Original Dough Recipe
Kyrol High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2.2372%):
Total (173.86389%):
391.1 g  |  13.8 oz | 0.86 lbs
277.77 g  |  9.8 oz | 0.61 lbs
2.36 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
8.75 g | 0.31 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.82 tsp | 0.61 tbsp
679.99 g | 23.99 oz | 1.5 lbs | TF = 0.1175754
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.11527; bowl residue compensation = 2%

I will leave to you to make any further adjustments, such as using less salt (I assume Morton's Kosher salt).

Peter



Peter,

Thanks so much for doing the calculations and using the expanded dough calculating tool for Trenton Billís Original Dough Recipe, Norma Modification of Trenton Billís Original Dough Recipe and Normaís 12Ēx17Ē Rectangular Pan Version of Trenton Billsís Original Dough Recipe.  I see I was far off I was when I tried to do a formulation. 

I will try the formulation you set-forth for me for my rectangular steel pan for this coming Tuesday, but will adjust the TF to my last attempt.  If I then want a higher TF it should be easy for me to change it now.

I appreciate all of your help!  :)

Norma 
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2012, 01:10:13 PM »
Norma,

Since you mentioned in the opening post that you wanted to make a 12" x 17" version of Trenton Bill's dough recipe, I went with his thickness factor. However, if you want to go with the thickness factor that you used, 0.13504, then the dough formulation looks like this:

Kyrol High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2.2372%):
Total (173.86389%):
458.18 g  |  16.16 oz | 1.01 lbs
325.41 g  |  11.48 oz | 0.72 lbs
2.77 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
10.25 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.14 tsp | 0.71 tbsp
796.61 g | 28.1 oz | 1.76 lbs | TF = 0.1377408
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.13504; bowl residue compensation = 2%

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2012, 01:26:38 PM »
Norma,

Since you mentioned in the opening post that you wanted to make a 12" x 17" version of Trenton Bill's dough recipe, I went with his thickness factor. However, if you want to go with the thickness factor that you used, 0.13504, then the dough formulation looks like this:

Kyrol High-Gluten Flour (100%):
Water (71.023%):
IDY (0.60369%):
Morton's Kosher Salt (2.2372%):
Total (173.86389%):
458.18 g  |  16.16 oz | 1.01 lbs
325.41 g  |  11.48 oz | 0.72 lbs
2.77 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.92 tsp | 0.31 tbsp
10.25 g | 0.36 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.14 tsp | 0.71 tbsp
796.61 g | 28.1 oz | 1.76 lbs | TF = 0.1377408
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.13504; bowl residue compensation = 2%

Peter


Wow, Peter!  You sure did that fast.  :o  I am not sure which one I will try now, but will think about it.

Thanks again!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2012, 11:13:01 AM »
I used the formulation Peter set-forth for Normaís 12Ēx17Ē Rectangular Pan Version of Trenton Billís Original Dough Recipe and mixed the dough this morning about an hour ago. 

I used a little different technique in mixing the dough so the dough might not be as sticky.  I had added the Mortonís Kosher salt to the water first, then slowly mixed the flour (with the IDY mixed in the flour) and rested the dough mixture a little before adding more flour.  It seemed like the dough mixed better that way and didnít seem as sticky as last week.  The final dough temperature was 75.0 degrees F.  I placed the poppy seeds on the dough ball to see how much it ferments until I try to make the pizza tomorrow.  I want to see if a higher hydration dough ferments faster than a lower hydration dough.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 08:25:51 PM »
The ďTwo BillísĒ pizza really turned out well this week.  I donít know if it was from having accurate weights to follow, or a combination of that and the mixing method I used.  I never knew Kyrol flour could make such a tender and moist pizza.  ;D The crumb just melted in my mouth and it reminded me of my best Pizzarium attempt, in that the crumb was springy and light.  Of course Billís method for preparing the Carmelina San Marzanoís tomatoes, also made this pizza very good.  The Vermont Smoked pepperoni didnít hurt either. 

For the ďTwo BillísĒ pizza the AMPI mild cheddar (mostly all cheddar) was used with a blend of my two regular mozzarellas.  Greek oregano was sprinkled on the top before the bake.  I think another thing that made the ďTwo BillísĒ pizza so good was when I baked the apple wood bacon, I used my blackbuster round steel pan to catch the drippings (fat) from the apple wood smoked bacon and then saved the fat drippings to grease the 12Ēx17Ē steel pan.  The fat drippings were clear. 

I like to watch how a dough ball ferments, and as can been seen after ďTwo BillísĒ dough ball fermented for two days how it changed in being a rough looking dough ball into a smooth looking dough ball. 

Peter,

Thanks for doing the formulation for me to follow. 

Maybe I should have posted these pizzas under the Sicilian thread, but didnít know what kind of pizza I was going to get when I first started this thread.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 08:28:46 PM »
Norma
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