Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 131836 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2012, 10:18:10 AM »
Norma,

A lean dough is one that has little or no oil or fat in it. The 2"-3" thickness number mentioned in the article you referenced most likely refers to the height of the dough in the pan rather than the height of the finished crust. If that is correct, that would suggest that the pan rises to the full height of the pan and maybe a bit higher and may be a case where the dough should be punched down. But, in general, the procedure that Wes Pikula describes in the article seems to be consistent with the methods described by the former Buddy's worker in Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795. As for applying cheese to the unbaked dough as it proofs, as the article mentions, it is hard to say if that is the standard procedure at Buddy's. If so, that would mean that for a pepperoni pizza, the pepperoni slices would have to go onto the dough before the cheese since Buddy's puts the pepperoni under the cheese. I would imagine that the Buddy pizzas are dressed in the standard manner although it is possible that they put the cheese down on top of a proofing dough during peak times for basic cheese pizzas. Even that seems inefficient.

You might want to reference the blog article at the Buddy's thread in case it was not found in the course of that thread.

I forgot to ask earlier but did you prefer one of the recent Trenton Bill's pizzas over the other?

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for confirming what I thought a lean dough was.  I had wondered about the 2Ē-3Ē thickness number in the article.  If what it referenced in the article is correct my dough isnít even right, because when the dough was tempered, it wasnít 2Ē-3Ē before the bake, or I am not letting the dough proof enough.  Do you think I should let my dough rise until it reaches that height and then punch it down. 

I will reference the blog article over at the Buddyís thread in case it was not found in the course of that thread and also what you posted.  I would post what I am doing over at the Buddyís thread, but donít want to hog-up that thread in case I am not doing something right.  If you think I should be posting what I am experimenting with at the Buddyís thread instead of this thread, I can change threads.  That is up to you.   

I donít know why, but think I preferred the Trenton Billís pizza yesterday with PizzaHogís TF.  I donít know if I like the cheese blend (or brand of cheddar better), the way my oven baked the pizza, or the TF better.  I might change my mind again though.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2012, 10:22:10 AM »
This picture shows how much the spacing of the poppys seeds changed in a little over 3 hrs. The picture was taken at 9:51 AM.  I was surprised that the dough ball has fermented this much in that short amount of time.  It is still 71 degrees ambient room temperature in my kitchen. 

Donít even ask if I noticed when the poppy seeds spacing showed when the dough had doubled, because I was so tired with the storm and the dogs getting me up early this morning that I took a nap.  :-D I might be able to note when the dough has doubled in the future. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2012, 10:25:17 AM »
A picture that tells more about Detroit style pizzas and how Buddyís started.  I am posting this incase anyone doesnít know about it.  I didnít know the history of Detroit style pizzas before and donít even know if this is all of it.

I hope the picture can be read when it is posted.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2012, 11:02:34 AM »
Norma,

I wouldn't worry about how fast the dough has risen. Actually, 0.60% IDY is a lot for a room temperature fermentation at around 71 degrees F. The roughly 71% hydration and the finished dough temperature of 75.4 degrees F no doubt also helped speed up the fermentation. But I view all of this as good news because it suggests that Buddy's may be using a similar set of values for its commercial operation. If the fermentation time is indeed as short as 1-2 hours, then it is possible that even more yeast is used at Buddy's. And they may rely on coolers to hold the dough for use throughout the day. Othewise, the dough balls would overferment.

In your case, I would fit the dough to the pan and let the dough continue to rise and monitor its progress. You don't want the dough to rise to the point where it starts to collapse. If the dough approaches the top of the pan, then you might punch it down. From that point, you can let the dough rise again before using. The final height of the dough in the pan might be as shown in the photos in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62851.html#msg62851. If you are not in a position to bake the pizza today, you might cover the pan and refrigerate the dough. Then, when you are ready to use the dough, let it temper at room temperature until it rises to the same point as shown in Reply 26.

FYI, based on the spacing of the poppy seeds shown in your photo, the dough more than tripled in volume from the time you made the dough to the time where the spacing of the poppy seeds went from 1" to 1.5".

Peter
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 11:05:25 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2012, 11:21:54 AM »
Norma,

I wouldn't worry about how fast the dough has risen. Actually, 0.60% IDY is a lot for a room temperature fermentation at around 71 degrees F. The roughly 71% hydration and the finished dough temperature of 75.4 degrees F no doubt also helped speed up the fermentation. But I view all of this as good news because it suggests that Buddy's may be using a similar set of values for its commercial operation. If the fermentation time is indeed as short as 1-2 hours, then it is possible that even more yeast is used at Buddy's. And they may rely on coolers to hold the dough for use throughout the day. Othewise, the dough balls would overferment.

In your case, I would fit the dough to the pan and let the dough continue to rise and monitor its progress. You don't want the dough to rise to the point where it starts to collapse. If the dough approaches the top of the pan, then you might punch it down. From that point, you can let the dough rise again before using. The final height of the dough in the pan might be as shown in the photos in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg62851.html#msg62851. If you are not in a position to bake the pizza today, you might cover the pan and refrigerate the dough. Then, when you are ready to use the dough, let it temper at room temperature until it rises to the same point as shown in Reply 26.

FYI, based on the spacing of the poppy seeds shown in your photo, the dough more than tripled in volume from the time you made the dough to the time where the spacing of the poppy seeds went from 1" to 1.5".

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for posting that I should not worry about how fast the dough has risen.  I donít think I have done any room temperature fermented doughs before with 0.60 % IDY, so I didnít know what to expect.  Also the higher hydration dough would ferment faster I would think.  At least I am glad you view this as good news.

I will fit the dough into the pan and will continue to monitor its progress.  Thanks for explaining what to do. 

I plan on making the pizza today.

Thanks also for telling me that the dough more than tripled in volume from the time I made the dough until a little over 3 hrs. passed.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2012, 11:49:14 AM »
I measured the poppy seeds spacing again at 11:30 AM, then removed the poppy seeds and lightly floured the top of the dough ball and also floured my table a little.  The dough was soft and bubbly and it easily stretched and also was easy to put in the steel pan.  The dough was placed into the 10Ē x 8Ē steel pan at 11:38 PM.  I will continue to monitor the dough in the steel pan.

I must have mistakenly dropped a couple of poppy seeds in the bottom of the plastic container, because I found a couple when I went to open the dough ball. 

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2012, 11:49:49 AM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #67 on: October 30, 2012, 02:19:38 PM »
This is what the dough looks like in the steel pan after two hours of proofing at the ambient temperature of 71 degrees F.  I has tempered some, but not a lot.  I measured how tall the dough has proofed and it has only proofed one inch.  After thinking about it, I would think when I did the balling of the dough (and then letting it ferment at room temperature) that might have been like one kneading if my thinking is right.  The time the dough has been in the pan I would guess would be like double kneading.  If my thinking isnít right, let me know.  I sure donít want to punch the dough down in the pan again since it isnít proofing very fast.  I would venture to guess that Buddyís has this all figured out right and I might need to do some experimenting to see what works for me when making a one day room temperature fermented dough to be baked the same day.  I think it might take a long while for my dough to ferment enough in my steel pan, unless I use my oven with the light on, or my Styrofoam proofing box.   

I also called Mandi Foods, Inc. http://www.mandifoods.com/shop/search.aspx this morning to see when my brick cheese would be shipped, since the weather isnít that bad in my area from Sandy.  I know the brick cheese was supposed to be shipped though FedEx and saw a FedEx truck go by on my street this morning, so I knew they are delivering to my area.  Kayla told me the FedEx location was closed in my area, but I told her I saw them making deliveries this morning.  Kayla then called my local FedEx location and called me back to say they are delivering in my area, if there arenít downed trees, or power lines.  Kayla said she would have my brick cheese shipped out today and I should receive it by tomorrow.  Trenton Bill had also purchased brick cheese from Mandi Foods, Inc. and said he got his brick cheese in one day of ordering it and it also was packaged very well.  Hopefully, I will received the brick cheese tomorrow and maybe be able to make another dough for Thursday to try the brick cheese.  Trenton Bill said he mixed the brick cheese with some white cheddar when he made his Detroit Buddyís style pie.  I also asked Kayla for the Nutrition Facts for their brick cheese.  Kayla said she would either send the Nutrition Facts to me with the brick cheese, or email the Nutrition Facts to me.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #68 on: October 30, 2012, 02:22:58 PM »
This is what the brick cheese looks like, that I ordered from Mandi Foods, Inc.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #69 on: October 30, 2012, 02:57:10 PM »
This is what the dough looks like in the steel pan after two hours of proofing at the ambient temperature of 71 degrees F.  I has tempered some, but not a lot.  I measured how tall the dough has proofed and it has only proofed one inch.  After thinking about it, I would think when I did the balling of the dough (and then letting it ferment at room temperature) that might have been like one kneading if my thinking is right.  The time the dough has been in the pan I would guess would be like double kneading.  If my thinking isnít right, let me know.  I sure donít want to punch the dough down in the pan again since it isnít proofing very fast.  I would venture to guess that Buddyís has this all figured out right and I might need to do some experimenting to see what works for me when making a one day room temperature fermented dough to be baked the same day.  I think it might take a long while for my dough to ferment enough in my steel pan, unless I use my oven with the light on, or my Styrofoam proofing box.   

Norma,

It is possible that if you had generally stretched and flattened the dough ball into the pan at the outset, the rise in the pan would have been higher. Maybe that is the way to do it next time. Also, we really don't know what amount of dough Buddy's uses for the 8" x 10" pan size, and we don't know the ambient temperature where the Buddy's dough rises.

Peter


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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #70 on: October 30, 2012, 03:09:31 PM »
Norma,

It is possible that if you had generally stretched and flattened the dough ball into the pan at the outset, the rise in the pan would have been higher. Maybe that is the way to do it next time. Also, we really don't know what amount of dough Buddy's uses for the 8" x 10" pan size, and we don't know the ambient temperature where the Buddy's dough rises.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for telling me if I had generally stretched and flattened the dough ball into the pan at the outset, the rise in the pan would have been higher.  I didnít think of trying that, but will the next time. 

I know we donít know how much dough Buddyís uses for the 8Ēx10Ē pan size and also donít know the ambient temperature of where Buddyís dough rises.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2012, 03:19:32 PM »
This what the dough looks like after 3 hrs. of proofing at the same ambient room temperature.  There is now a bubble on top of the dough at one spot.  I also used a ruler to measure the dough and it isnít even one inch in height.

I wonder how long I should let this dough proof.  I don't want to let the dough overferment.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2012, 03:21:38 PM »

I received a PDF document for the Eddieís brick cheese and am posting it if anyone is interested.  Kayla said in an email they did shop out the brick cheese I ordered this afternoon and it was shipped out via FedEx One Day.  Kayla also said in the email if I have any other questions about the Nutrition Facts to let her know.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2012, 04:05:02 PM »
I wonder how long I should let this dough proof.  I don't want to let the dough overferment.

Norma,

If the dough isn't rising much anymore, you might want to use the dough to make a pizza.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2012, 04:55:48 PM »
Norma,

If the dough isn't rising much anymore, you might want to use the dough to make a pizza.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks, the dough wasn't rising a lot, so I did make the pizza.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2012, 04:59:45 PM »

I decided to proceed and make the pizza after the dough proofed for 4 hrs.  First picture is of the dough in the steel pan at 4 hrs.  The dough did smell very good and yeasty.  

The dough was dressed with Nasonville one year old aged white cheddar and Nasonville pizza cheese.  The same amount of the cheese blend was used as in my last attempt.  I used Novemberís sauce again.

I turned my oven up the whole way this time, (probably was about 515 degrees F) and baked for 18 minutes on the bottom shelf of my home oven.

The pizza was easy to take out of the steel pan, even though my steel pan isnít seasoned right.  I can be seen on the wooden ruler how thick the pizza was.  

There is a gum line on part of this pizza, but I sure didnít mind it.  The taste of the crust was really good and the cheese blend did taste very good too.  Novemberís sauce also tasted very good on this pizza.  The caramelized edges and bottom crust were just delicious.  :P I sure donít know if the pizza I made is anything like Buddyís, but I did enjoy two slices of the pizza.  I have saved one slice for my mom and one slice for my daughter, but I think I could have eaten the whole pie.  

Norma  
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 05:05:49 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2012, 05:00:33 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2012, 05:01:20 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2012, 05:02:10 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2012, 05:03:14 PM »
Norma
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