Author Topic: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 245430 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #325 on: November 14, 2012, 07:32:56 PM »
Norma,
 
I believe I stated everything correctly but it is possible that I misstated something because I had to go to several of your posts to piecemeal everything together. However, if you look at the first photo that you posted in Reply 291 showing the two poppy seeds separated by 1 1/4", the dough had about doubled by that point. If you look at the second photo in that post showing the poppy seeds separated by a tad more than 1 1/4", the dough had increased in volume by about another 25%. If you are interested, I believe that this is the entire timeline:

9:05 AM to 9:20 AM, Monday: 15-min. room temperature rest before placing the dough in the deli case
9:20 AM Monday to 1:58 PM Tuesday: Dough cold ferments in the deli case
1:58 PM to 3:03 PM, Tuesday: Dough out of the deli case and tempers in its storage container at room temperature
3:03 PM to 4:35 PM, Tuesday: Dough out of its storage container and tempers at room temperature in pan (8" x 10")

The total elapsed time I mentioned was up to the point of the second photo you showed with the poppy seeds.
 
The reason why I was interested in a Buddy's 4-square cheese and pepperoni pizza based on using an emergency type dough, brick cheese, and baked in your deck oven at market is because that would be likely to produce the best loss information, especially since your bake temperature and time are similar to Buddy's. That loss information is what would be used with the Margherita pepperoni information and the information that dicepackage provided to try to close in on the amount of dough that Buddy's uses to make its square pizzas. Fo now, I plan to play around with the loss data we have accumulated to date to see what the variances are and whether they are material to the calculations.

Peter


Peter,

I believe you posted everything correctly, and believe it was me that was confused. 

Thanks for posting the timeline.  I was interested.

I can try an emergency dough if I get up early enough on Tuesday if you think that will be helpful since my bake time temperature and time are similar to Buddy’s in my deck oven. 

Norma


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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #326 on: November 14, 2012, 07:40:02 PM »
Norma,
As I previously mentioned, I was not particularly enamored of the Buddy's Nutrition information. However, I felt that analyzing the differences between a Buddy's cheese slice and a Buddy's cheese and pepperoni slice, on the assumption that a Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza is the same as a Buddy's cheese pizza but with pepperoni added, would be productive and perhaps tell me what Buddy's is using for pepperoni and in what amount. The math for doing this is very simple.
As long as you use 1.25 ounces (35 grams) of pepperoni slices, it shouldn't matter what brand of pepperoni you use. Use a brand that you personally enjoy.

Peter


Peter,

I know you were not particularly enamored of Buddy’s Nutrition information.  I think what you did with the Buddy’s cheese and pepperoni slice, on the assumption that a Buddy’s cheese and pepperoni pizza are the same as a Buddy’s cheese pizza, but without the pepperoni added was productive.  The math might be simple for you, but surely not for me. 

I think I will use the brand of pepperoni Steve brought for me to try.  I really like that pepperoni.  It is a curling pepperoni, but didn’t curl for me when place under the cheese at my moms.

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #327 on: November 14, 2012, 07:51:11 PM »
I can try an emergency dough if I get up early enough on Tuesday if you think that will be helpful since my bake time temperature and time are similar to Buddy’s in my deck oven. 

Norma,

We have plenty of time to address this matter. The range of losses of the Buddy's clones you have made to date run from about 5.28% to almost 11%. Maybe I can find the one that was closest to a Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza and use the weight loss for that clone for my calculations.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #328 on: November 14, 2012, 08:53:57 PM »
Norma,

We have plenty of time to address this matter. The range of losses of the Buddy's clones you have made to date run from about 5.28% to almost 11%. Maybe I can find the one that was closest to a Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza and use the weight loss for that clone for my calculations.

Peter


Peter,

The range of losses of the Buddy’s attempts I made were wide in my opinion.  Thanks for posting what the ranges were.  Let me if you change your mind in me trying an emergency Buddy’s clone with pepperoni for Tuesday.  It really doesn’t take that long to mix one dough ball.

I might try a larger batch of Buddy’s clone dough balls on Monday at market for customers to taste test or sell Tuesday, if I get my new steel pans until then.  So far, when customers, or potential customers saw the Buddy’s clone pizzas they were interested in them.  I will wait and see if the people are still interested when I start making the Buddy’s clone for sale. I just need to figured out how many dough balls that might be.  I know I usually need at least a 5 dough ball batch of NY style dough for my Hobart to mix properly, but it will be much more than a 5 dough ball batch with the low weight of what I have been using for the Buddy‘s clones.

I think I am going to purchase a 25 lb. bag of the bromated Occident flour on Friday.

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #329 on: November 14, 2012, 09:19:45 PM »
Norma, those are some beautiful pizzas.  I have never had a Buddy's, but I have had some Detroit style.  I like to put the sauce on a few minutes before it is done, then put it back in. 

I think a lot of the time disparity is oven difference and the fact that in a busy oven, times will expand with use, which is not an issue when cooking one or two

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #330 on: November 14, 2012, 09:40:24 PM »
Norma, those are some beautiful pizzas.  I have never had a Buddy's, but I have had some Detroit style.  I like to put the sauce on a few minutes before it is done, then put it back in. 

I think a lot of the time disparity is oven difference and the fact that in a busy oven, times will expand with use, which is not an issue when cooking one or two

Tom,

Thanks for your kind words.  :) I also never had a real Buddy’s pizza.  You are lucky that you had the opportunity to try some Detroit style pies.  I guess they were from Via 313.  Thanks for posting you like to put the sauce on a few minutes before the pizza is done.  That is a great tip!   ;D

I agree that how many times an oven door is opened and shut will make differences in how the pizzas are baked, or how long they take to bake.  I see that in my deck oven all the time.  I also saw that in my moms gas oven, because I kept opening the door on her gas oven because I wasn’t sure how her gas oven was going to bake in the first Buddy‘s clone I tried at her home.

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #331 on: November 15, 2012, 10:19:26 AM »
Peter,

I don’t know if you or other members saw this article from a blogger, but the article talks about Detroit Style Pizzas.  At Detroit Style Pizza they do use a deck oven to bake their Detroit Style pizzas.  A picture of the deck oven is shown in this bloggers article.
http://greatlakesbetterfood.blogspot.com/2012/08/an-extended-look-at-all-square-history.html

I wonder if the fermenting pans of dough at Detroit Style pizza are never covered.  I would think the skins would develop a dryness, or crust on top.  That was something like when I used my Hatco Unit last week and I even covered the pans, but somehow air must have gotten inside the pans and formed a dry skin, or crust on them.  The dry skins didn’t seem to do anything in my Buddy’s attempts in how the crust rose in the oven though.  The crumb was still moist too. 

The blogger also mentions Pizza Making with helping him find information.

The pans sitting out without a lid can also be seen at an article on Slice about Loui’s Pizza.  The pans are cross stacked like Detroit Style pizza pans.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/09/louis-pizza-hazel-park-michigan-mi-detroit-thick-crust.html?ref=search

I wonder if it even matters if covers or lids aren’t on the steel pan while they are tempering at room temperature.

For anyone that has a face book page it can be seen that Brown Dog Pizza, another pizzeria that offers Detroit style pizza, did bake their Detroit style pizzas in the American Pizza Championships on September 9, 2011 in a deck oven.  There are a lot of pictures on Brown Dog Pizza facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brown-Dog-Pizza/82497826397?ref=ts&sk=photos#!/media/set/?set=a.10150304492986398.336098.82497826397&type=3   Brown Dog Pizza Detroit style looks a little bit thicker to me.  Brown Dog Pizza won a championship for their Detroit style pizzas.

I copied a few pictures off of Brown Dogs Pizza facebook page incase members don’t have a facebook page to look at the pictures .  The one picture with the deck oven also shows a pan sitting on top of the oven with no cover on the steel pan.  I don’t know what make those deck oven are.

Did anyone ever post whether the pans are covered or not here on the forum at Buddy’s and do you think it would make any differences?

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #333 on: November 15, 2012, 10:47:53 AM »
Seems like Tony Gemignai’s also helped Smokeitch create his Detroit-style pizzas.

http://www.browndogpizza.net/UserFiles/File/BrownDog-watch-9-29-11.pdf

Norma


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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #334 on: November 15, 2012, 11:11:52 AM »
I received my 3 pre-seasoned steel pizza pans today from Detroit Style Pizza Co. 

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #335 on: November 15, 2012, 12:51:21 PM »
Norma - in the first picture of the second post of Brown Dog pics, do you know what he's putting along the edge of the crust with the pastry blade?  Looks like butter to me.

Here are some pics from Tuesday's dinner.  I did a 24-hour room-temp (low 70s) rise and didn't want to over-proof, so I used 15g of sourdough starter (2%) for two 350g crusts, 70% hydration, KASL, with minimal kneading up front and two ballings (one after ~12 hours of bulk rise, the second about six hours later, just before panning), then let the dough rise in the pans for five hours before pressing and stretching, followed by about an hour proofing in a warm oven.  Used the convection-bake option set at 500F to get the bottom stone to 550F, then shut off the fan and set the temp to 475 for a 15-minute bake.

The first pic is of the just-balled dough in the pan, the second following the 5-hr rise.  The other two made me hungry for lunch, but I wanted to show the bottom crust in particular - you can see a little more browning than usual, probably because I started the pizzas on the hotter stone.  The lower hydration with the KASL made the dough easier to handle but it was still nice and soft on the interior with a crispy bottom and edge - got excellent scores from the happy family!

« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 02:03:29 PM by Skee »

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #336 on: November 15, 2012, 02:37:17 PM »
Did anyone ever post whether the pans are covered or not here on the forum at Buddy’s and do you think it would make any differences?

Norma,

According to the former employee of Buddy's, "lufty", Buddy's cross stacked its pans, as noted in Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795. I do not recall that the top of the dough in the pan is coated with oil but some workers at Buddy's apparently oiled their fingers when they spread the dough in the pan, as noted at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436. BTW, I have been editing Reply 126 recently so that, together with the many links referenced therein, it contains just about everything I know about the Buddy's dough and procedures.

The only company that I am aware of that covers its pans for its square style pizzas is Jet's.

I noted from the blog report you referenced at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436 that mention is made that Buddy's adds Parmesan cheese to its pizzas. I believe that that is for the Detroiter specialty pizza mentioned and shown in the report. That pizza has the pepperoni on top and is described on the Buddy's menu as follows: Cheese, pepperoni on top, tomato basil sauce, topped with shaved parmesan cheese and Buddy’s spice blend.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #337 on: November 15, 2012, 05:06:39 PM »
Norma - in the first picture of the second post of Brown Dog pics, do you know what he's putting along the edge of the crust with the pastry blade?  Looks like butter to me.

Here are some pics from Tuesday's dinner.  I did a 24-hour room-temp (low 70s) rise and didn't want to over-proof, so I used 15g of sourdough starter (2%) for two 350g crusts, 70% hydration, KASL, with minimal kneading up front and two ballings (one after ~12 hours of bulk rise, the second about six hours later, just before panning), then let the dough rise in the pans for five hours before pressing and stretching, followed by about an hour proofing in a warm oven.  Used the convection-bake option set at 500F to get the bottom stone to 550F, then shut off the fan and set the temp to 475 for a 15-minute bake.

The first pic is of the just-balled dough in the pan, the second following the 5-hr rise.  The other two made me hungry for lunch, but I wanted to show the bottom crust in particular - you can see a little more browning than usual, probably because I started the pizzas on the hotter stone.  The lower hydration with the KASL made the dough easier to handle but it was still nice and soft on the interior with a crispy bottom and edge - got excellent scores from the happy family!



Skee,

In the first photo at Reply 332 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg223644.html#msg223644  this is what it says.
Applying the whipped New York ricotta and pressed garlic, so I don’t think it was butter that was applied, but don’t really know.  If you look at the some of these photos, it looks like the crust in the pan might have been par-baked, but I sure can’t make out if it was or not. 

In the first picture below, I am not sure if the crust is par-baked either and also am not sure what is applied as a dressing.

The second picture says this.  Me and Shawn Randazzo (owner of Cloverleaf Pizza in Detroit, MI)

In the third picture it says this.  Whole Milk Mozzarella

In the fourth pictures it says this.  Did the bottom bake?  Lol, that sounds like me.

In the fifth picture, I can’t be sure, but that dough in the pan might also be par-baked.

Wow, your sourdough starter Detroit-style pies look fantastic.  ;D I can see why you got excellent scores from your family.  How did you decide on using 350 grams for a Detroit style pizza?  Do you think you need a 5 hr. temper with the dough ball in the pan?  It that was has given you the best results?   The bottom of the crust looks nice and crispy.  What did you used as the oil?

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #338 on: November 15, 2012, 05:25:23 PM »
Norma,

According to the former employee of Buddy's, "lufty", Buddy's cross stacked its pans, as noted in Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795. I do not recall that the top of the dough in the pan is coated with oil but some workers at Buddy's apparently oiled their fingers when they spread the dough in the pan, as noted at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436. BTW, I have been editing Reply 126 recently so that, together with the many links referenced therein, it contains just about everything I know about the Buddy's dough and procedures.

The only company that I am aware of that covers its pans for its square style pizzas is Jet's.

I noted from the blog report you referenced at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436 that mention is made that Buddy's adds Parmesan cheese to its pizzas. I believe that that is for the Detroiter specialty pizza mentioned and shown in the report. That pizza has the pepperoni on top and is described on the Buddy's menu as follows: Cheese, pepperoni on top, tomato basil sauce, topped with shaved parmesan cheese and Buddy’s spice blend.

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for the link where you quoted what lufty said about Buddy’s cross stacking its pans. I do recall that some workers at Buddy’s apparently oiled their finger when they spread the dough in the pan.  I guess that would help with the skin not drying out, if no lids are used.  It is still confusing to me if oiling (oiling with fingers dipped in oil), or not oiling the skins any would hurt the rise in the pans or not, but I guess it doesn’t really matter.

Thanks for updating Reply 126 at the Buddy’s thread.  I have a hard time remembering all that has gone on in the Buddy’s thread, but can go back and read Reply 126 to refresh my memory. 

Thanks for straightening out about why the Parmesan cheese was mentioned in the blog report.

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #339 on: November 15, 2012, 05:28:47 PM »
I just wanted to note that my new seasoned steel pizza pans really aren’t 10”x14” if they are measured with a metal measuring tape on the top edges.  I guess it doesn’t really matter.

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #340 on: November 15, 2012, 05:37:09 PM »
Applying the whipped New York ricotta and pressed garlic, so I don’t think it was butter that was applied, but don’t really know....How did you decide on using 350 grams for a Detroit style pizza?  Do you think you need a 5 hr. temper with the dough ball in the pan?  It that was has given you the best results?   The bottom of the crust looks nice and crispy.  What did you used as the oil?
OK, ricotta and garlic makes sense after looking at the picture a little closer - you can see that it's spread all over the top, too.  

I'm sticking with 350g for now because it lets me judge the various hydrations and when it works as planned, the height of the crust seems to balance really well with the amount of sauce and cheese I'm using.  Again, I've never had a Buddy's, so can't compare, but I think mine is a little taller than what I've seen in pics and definitely taller than Via 313's and I think I'm lighter on the cheese, too.  

Probably could have gotten away with a little less time rising in the pan but that's how it worked on a weekday - I snuck home at lunch to do the balling and panning and then got home again around 6:00.  That was the first time I've had a dough that would actually ball for this style, usually go higher in hydration and it's too sticky.  

Went back to peanut oil in the pan with a little crisco in the corners again since I wasn't sure about the drier dough.  Pizzas slid out with no prying at all and likely could have skipped the Crisco.

The Detroit Style pans get better every time I use them, so if you're not going to do some pre-use oiling and baking I think you should use a little extra oil and the Crisco to make sure the first couple of pizzas don't stick.

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #341 on: November 15, 2012, 05:42:26 PM »
I do recall that some workers at Buddy’s apparently oiled their finger when they spread the dough in the pan.  I guess that would help with the skin not drying out, if no lids are used.  It is still confusing to me if oiling (oiling with fingers dipped in oil), or not oiling the skins any would hurt the rise in the pans or not, but I guess it doesn’t really matter.
If you don't use any bench flour, or just minimal flour, oiling your fingers for stretching really helps with these higher-hydration doughs.  I use just enough to coat the fingers and keep them from sticking and this leaves a very thin layer on the dough with no impact to the rising.


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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #342 on: November 15, 2012, 05:51:49 PM »

I'm sticking with 350g for now because it lets me judge the various hydrations and when it works as planned, the height of the crust seems to balance really well with the amount of sauce and cheese I'm using.  Again, I've never had a Buddy's, so can't compare, but I think mine is a little taller than what I've seen in pics and definitely taller than Via 313's and I think I'm lighter on the cheese, too.  

Probably could have gotten away with a little less time rising in the pan but that's how it worked on a weekday - I snuck home at lunch to do the balling and panning and then got home again around 6:00.  That was the first time I've had a dough that would actually ball for this style, usually go higher in hydration and it's too sticky.  


Skee,

Thanks for explaining why you like 350 grams of dough for your Detroit pies.  It makes sense in what you posted.  If I ever really make a Buddy’s clone at market, I am going to go down on the cheese amount too. 

Thanks also for explaining about you rise in the pan.  Good to hear you could get the dough to ball.  Your dough balls look nice. 

If you don't use any bench flour, or just minimal flour, oiling your fingers for stretching really helps with these higher-hydration doughs.  I use just enough to coat the fingers and keep them from sticking and this leaves a very thin layer on the dough with no impact to the rising.

Thanks for explaining about the oiling too!

Norma


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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #343 on: November 15, 2012, 06:15:53 PM »
Thanks for the link where you quoted what lufty said about Buddy’s cross stacking its pans. I do recall that some workers at Buddy’s apparently oiled their finger when they spread the dough in the pan.  I guess that would help with the skin not drying out, if no lids are used.  It is still confusing to me if oiling (oiling with fingers dipped in oil), or not oiling the skins any would hurt the rise in the pans or not, but I guess it doesn’t really matter.

Norma,

If what was reported in Reply 126 is correct, Buddy's pizza dough at the time lufty worked for Buddy's was a 1-2 hour dough that was made several times a day, with the earliest dough being used for lunch service. Assuming that the dough was a high hydration dough, it is possible that a "skin" might have formed on the surface of the dough but it may have been a minor and inconsequential one, just as I have observed with high hydration preferments (like a poolish or sponge). The "skin" might also have largely disappeared once the blob of dough was spread into the pan. I personally wouldn't want a lot of oil on the surface of the dough as it is formed in the pan because I wouldn't want the cheese to slide off of the oil on the finished pizza. The oil also wouldn't be needed to keep the sauce from migrating into the dough because it is added on top of the cheese. I think a simple experimental emergency dough formulation along the lines that Buddy's was said to use would answer all of your questions.

In the case of Jet's, which uses covers for their pans, I understand that some (but not all) Jet's franchisees hold unused dough (a dough made similarly to Buddy's) over to the next day, in their coolers. However, the Jet's dough has a considerably lower hydration value that perhaps is amenable to a drier "skin" being formed on the surface of the dough.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 06:36:40 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #344 on: November 15, 2012, 06:23:49 PM »
I just wanted to note that my new seasoned steel pizza pans really aren’t 10”x14” if they are measured with a metal measuring tape on the top edges.  I guess it doesn’t really matter.

Norma,

What were the dimensions of the pan? The 10" x 14" pans that were originally available from Northern Pizza Supply (and I believe P.A. Products) were a true 10" x 14" across the top. The dimensions do matter since the amount of dough has to conform to the pan size. That shouldn't be a problem once we are able to determine the thickness factor, since that value can be used in the expanded dough calculating tool for any size pan, rectangular or round.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #345 on: November 15, 2012, 08:21:45 PM »
Norma,

If what was reported in Reply 126 is correct, Buddy's pizza dough at the time lufty worked for Buddy's was a 1-2 hour dough that was made several times a day, with the earliest dough being used for lunch service. Assuming that the dough was a high hydration dough, it is possible that a "skin" might have formed on the surface of the dough but it may have been a minor and inconsequential one, just as I have observed with high hydration preferments (like a poolish or sponge). The "skin" might also have largely disappeared once the blob of dough was spread into the pan. I personally wouldn't want a lot of oil on the surface of the dough as it is formed in the pan because I wouldn't want the cheese to slide off of the oil on the finished pizza. The oil also wouldn't be needed to keep the sauce from migrating into the dough because it is added on top of the cheese. I think a simple experimental emergency dough formulation along the lines that Buddy's was said to use would answer all of your questions.

In the case of Jet's, which uses covers for their pans, I understand that some (but not all) Jet's franchisees hold unused dough (a dough made similarly to Buddy's) over to the next day, in their coolers. However, the Jet's dough has a considerably lower hydration value that perhaps is amenable to a drier "skin" being formed on the surface of the dough.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for explaining about how a skin could have formed on the surface of the dough.  I thought Buddy’s did make dough balls and didn’t just place a blob of dough into the pans to ferment and then press them out.  I could be wrong on that though.  I think I was thinking along the lines of the dough forming a skin when the dough sits in the cross stacked pans, while the dough is fermenting.  I think I did see where Via 313 might place blobs of dough in their pans though. 

I can understand about not wanting a lot of oil on the surface of the dough, because of the cheese falling off and more oil on the pizza. 

What kind of simple experimental emergency dough do you have in mind for me to try in the timeline of what lufty reported?  Do you want me try it at home, or at market?  I would like my questions answered, so am willing to do whatever you want me to do.

I know I tried some Jet’s formulations and do know what I tried was lower in hydration than a Buddy’s clone.  I like the Buddy’ clone pizzas better.  I would think it Jet’s wouldn’t cover their pans, there might be problems with dryness of the skin.

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #346 on: November 15, 2012, 08:23:47 PM »
Norma,

What were the dimensions of the pan? The 10" x 14" pans that were originally available from Northern Pizza Supply (and I believe P.A. Products) were a true 10" x 14" across the top. The dimensions do matter since the amount of dough has to conform to the pan size. That shouldn't be a problem once we are able to determine the thickness factor, since that value can be used in the expanded dough calculating tool for any size pan, rectangular or round.

Peter

Peter,

These are pictures of what my 10”x14” pans look like from Detroit Style Pizza Co.  It can be seen by the measurements with my metal measuring tape, the 14” measurement isn’t off by much, but the 10” measurement is off a little more.  My one pan I received today doesn’t have as much seasoning (one picture) on the one spot, but the other two steel pans look fine as far seasoning.

I can understand if the dimensions are not really true, it won’t really matter once you are able to determine the TF for a Buddy’s clone.  I know the expanded dough calculating tool can be used for any size pan.

I just talked to Trenton Bill and he said he received his pans yesterday from the Detroit Style Pizza Co. and his one pan was dented and both pans weren’t seasoned right.  He threw the one pan away.  :o I told him he could have used something like a grill, or something else to burn off the rest of the seasoning off and start over.

Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #347 on: November 15, 2012, 09:16:36 PM »
Norma,

Thanks for explaining about how a skin could have formed on the surface of the dough.  I thought Buddy’s did make dough balls and didn’t just place a blob of dough into the pans to ferment and then press them out.  I could be wrong on that though.  I think I was thinking along the lines of the dough forming a skin when the dough sits in the cross stacked pans, while the dough is fermenting.
You can read how former employee lufty at Buddy's described how he formed the dough for the Buddy's square pizzas in the italicized part of Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795
 
What kind of simple experimental emergency dough do you have in mind for me to try in the timeline of what lufty reported?  Do you want me try it at home, or at market?  I would like my questions answered, so am willing to do whatever you want me to do.
Since the sole purpose of the experiment is to see if a Buddy's emergency clone dough develops a "skin" on its surface during its brief fermentation period (1-2 hours), it does not matter whether you conduct the experiment at home or at market. However, if you are to use a 1-2 hour room temperature fermentation period as a target, you may want to use 0.80% IDY and water warm enough to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 90 degrees F. The actual fermentation time will be influenced by the room temperature where the dough is to be fermented.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #348 on: November 15, 2012, 09:28:10 PM »
These are pictures of what my 10”x14” pans look like from Detroit Style Pizza Co.  It can be seen by the measurements with my metal measuring tape, the 14” measurement isn’t off by much, but the 10” measurement is off a little more.  My one pan I received today doesn’t have as much seasoning (one picture) on the one spot, but the other two steel pans look fine as far seasoning.
Norma,

According to the Detroit Style Pizza Co. website at http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/, the large pan is given as 10" x 14". From the photos you provided, I would say that any variances look to be slight and, in my opinion, should not affect the results you get using your Buddy's clone doughs. Remember, also, that Buddy's pizzas will vary in weight from one pizza to another, both unbaked and baked, because the cheese is measured out volumetrically (see http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg) and the amount of sauce is largely a guess. Variations for the pepperoni slices should be fairly minor from one pizza to another so long as the correct number of slices are used.

Peter

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #349 on: November 15, 2012, 10:06:33 PM »
Norma,
You can read how former employee lufty at Buddy's described how he formed the dough for the Buddy's square pizzas in the italicized part of Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795
 Since the sole purpose of the experiment is to see if a Buddy's emergency clone dough develops a "skin" on its surface during its brief fermentation period (1-2 hours), it does not matter whether you conduct the experiment at home or at market. However, if you are to use a 1-2 hour room temperature fermentation period as a target, you may want to use 0.80% IDY and water warm enough to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 90 degrees F. The actual fermentation time will be influenced by the room temperature where the dough is to be fermented.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the link again about what lufty said about how he formed the dough for Buddy’s square pan.   

I see lufty said:  The balls are weighed and placed in the pans loosely stretched and stacked up criss-cross to rise. A few hours later they are stretched out properly, using your thumb to press the corners into the pan a midway up the edge.

I will perform the experiment on Saturday to see if a Buddy’s emergency clone dough develops a skin on the surface in the 1-2 hr. fermentation period.  I already have a print out of the emergency Buddy’s formulation from the expanded dough calculation tool with 0.80% IDY.  I will strive for a finished dough temperature of around 90 degrees F.  I know the actual fermentation time will be influenced by the room temperature of where the dough is to be fermented.  My kitchen is quite cool at this time of the year, so I might use my little disc heater that I usually keep in the bathroom to help make my kitchen warmer.

Norma