Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 218376 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #350 on: November 15, 2012, 10:14:54 PM »
Norma,

According to the Detroit Style Pizza Co. website at http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/, the large pan is given as 10" x 14". From the photos you provided, I would say that any variances look to be slight and, in my opinion, should not affect the results you get using your Buddy's clone doughs. Remember, also, that Buddy's pizzas will vary in weight from one pizza to another, both unbaked and baked, because the cheese is measured out volumetrically (see http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg) and the amount of sauce is largely a guess. Variations for the pepperoni slices should be fairly minor from one pizza to another so long as the correct number of slices are used.

Peter

Peter,

I agree that my steel pans measurements are slight, but I just wanted to note that they werenít exactly 10Ēx14Ē. 

I forgot about Buddyís weighing their cheese out volumetrically and that also affecting the weight of the final pizzas.  I do know that the sauce is largely a guess.

I can understand now the variances in my steel pans really wonít make any difference. 

Norma 
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #351 on: November 15, 2012, 11:42:57 PM »
I got (5) 8x10 pans from them last week, and they all looked basically OK. I went ahead and put another coat of seasoning on them anyway.
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #352 on: November 16, 2012, 07:40:19 AM »
I got (5) 8x10 pans from them last week, and they all looked basically OK. I went ahead and put another coat of seasoning on them anyway.

Craig,

Great to hear you got 5 (8Ēx10Ē) steel pan from Detroit Style Pizza Co.  Sounds like you are gearing up to make a lot of Detroit style pizzas.  ;D I remember in NY when you told Steve and me your love was only for Neapolitan pies.  Glad you found another style of pie that you also like.   8)

How did you put on another coat of seasoning?  You can see my 8Ēx10Ē steel pans arenít seasoned right.
They do work okay now and the pies slip right out most of the time, but at first the Jetís pizzas I tried wanted to stick.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #353 on: November 16, 2012, 09:23:57 AM »
Craig,

Great to hear you got 5 (8Ēx10Ē) steel pan from Detroit Style Pizza Co.  Sounds like you are gearing up to make a lot of Detroit style pizzas.  ;D I remember in NY when you told Steve and me your love was only for Neapolitan pies.  Glad you found another style of pie that you also like.   8)

How did you put on another coat of seasoning?  You can see my 8Ēx10Ē steel pans arenít seasoned right.
They do work okay now and the pies slip right out most of the time, but at first the Jetís pizzas I tried wanted to stick.

Norma

NP is still my only true love. Detroit is more of a flirty affair.  8) I figured I'd need 5 if we ever invited any people over to try it as the number of pans dictates how many pies you can make in an evening. I went with 8x10 so there would be a higher edge crust/middle ratio (.45" of edge crust per in2 of pie vs .34" for 10x14).

To season the pans, I wiped the insides down with a thin coat of Crisco (MFB would be fine) and put them in a 500F oven for an hour and a half or so - until they stopped smoking. A couple thin coats (baked on between) are better than a single thick coat.

The more you use them the more non-stick they will get. No water ever for washing.
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #354 on: November 16, 2012, 09:48:49 AM »
NP is still my only true love. Detroit is more of a flirty affair.  8) I figured I'd need 5 if we ever invited any people over to try it as the number of pans dictates how many pies you can make in an evening. I went with 8x10 so there would be a higher edge crust/middle ratio (.45" of edge crust per in2 of pie vs .34" for 10x14).

To season the pans, I wiped the insides down with a thin coat of Crisco (MFB would be fine) and put them in a 500F oven for an hour and a half or so - until they stopped smoking. A couple thin coats (baked on between) are better than a single thick coat.

The more you use them the more non-stick they will get. No water ever for washing.

Craig,

I had thought NP was still your true love.  I find it amusing that the Detroit-style is more of a flirty affair for you.  I understand now why you purchased 5 steel pans.  I donít understand how you did those calculations, but how much dough in grams do you use for a 8Ēx10Ē square pan?

Thanks for explaining to me how you seasoned your steel pans.  I will season my new steel pans some more before I try them.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #355 on: November 16, 2012, 11:08:57 AM »
I donít understand how you did those calculations, but how much dough in grams do you use for a 8Ēx10Ē square pan?

I used 325g for an 8x10 last time, but I think that is a little too much. I'll try 300g next.

The other calculations were to show that you get proportionally more of the crispy cheese edge crust (my favorite part) on an 8x10 pies than on a 10x14.

An 8x10 pie has 80in2 or pizza (8x10) and a 36" parameter (8+8+10+10). Therefore, you have .45" of edge crust for every square inch of pizza (36/80). A 10x14 pie has 140in2 of pizza and a 48" parameter so you only get 0.34" of edge crust per square inch of pie (48/140).

If you like the crispy edge, 8x10 is the way to go.

Craig
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #356 on: November 16, 2012, 12:41:00 PM »
I used 325g for an 8x10 last time, but I think that is a little too much. I'll try 300g next.

The other calculations were to show that you get proportionally more of the crispy cheese edge crust (my favorite part) on an 8x10 pies than on a 10x14.

An 8x10 pie has 80in2 or pizza (8x10) and a 36" parameter (8+8+10+10). Therefore, you have .45" of edge crust for every square inch of pizza (36/80). A 10x14 pie has 140in2 of pizza and a 48" parameter so you only get 0.34" of edge crust per square inch of pie (48/140).

If you like the crispy edge, 8x10 is the way to go.

Craig


Craig,

Thanks for posting how much dough you used in grams and how much dough in grams you plan to use the next time.

It is interesting you could calculate to show how much extra crispy edge crust you can get with using a 8Ēx10Ē steel pan. 

I can see by your explaining that there is more extra crispy edge with using the smaller pan, but sure donít understand the calculations.  You sure have a good brain and a knack for doing anything well.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #357 on: November 16, 2012, 12:49:34 PM »
If anyone might be interested, I contacted Great Lakes Cheese to see if there are any distributors in my area for their brick cheese.  I told them I was located in SE Pa.  I also received a xls. about the Great Lakes brick cheese, but canít open that document.  I sent another email to see if Great Lakes does have distributors for their brick cheese in my area.

This is what the email said.

Hello Norma,

Great Lakes Cheese does produce the Brick cheese, and can be purchased by a number of distributors in western Pennsylvania:

0000010173   CLOVERHILL FOOD PRODUCTS   110057   BRICK 2/6 LB GLC
0000015039   MCANENY BROTHERS   110057   BRICK 2/6 LB GLC
0000010098   BLACKBURN & RUSSELL   110057   BRICK 2/6 LB GLC
0000014138   REINHART PITTSBURGH   110057   BRICK 2/6 LB GLC

Please confirm which one you buy from, as they each currently carry this item form us.

They would then quote you.

Item information is below, along with my contact information.

Item #   SAP#   Product Description   Pack/Size   Quote/   Ti/Hi   Pallet
24210   110057   Brick Loaf   2/6   BLK +   20/5   100

Thank you,

Tim Holden

Tim Holden sent me a follow-up email when I explained again what region of Pa. I was from.  I had asked for a pdf. document about the Great Lakes brick cheese, since I canít open the xls., but didnít get a pdf. document.

Norma,
The 2 distributors that currently purchase this item are:
0000010633   SCHIFF'S FDSRV   110057   BRICK 2/6 LB GLC
0000010754   US FD 2J ALLENTOWN   110057   BRICK 2/6 LB GLC

Craig: please confirm where Schiffs is located for Norma.
Item #   SAP#   Product Description   Pack/Size   Quote/   Ti/Hi   Pallet
24210   110057   Brick Loaf   2/6   BLK +   20/5   100

Thank you,
Tim Holden

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #358 on: November 16, 2012, 06:43:34 PM »
Craig, that is a cheese broker for Great Lakes, (both retail and foodservice) called me today and said that Schiffs is located in Scranton, Pa.  Craig was trying to find me a supplier that does carry the Great Lakes brick cheese and will call me back next week, but it doesnít look like any distributors near me carry the Great Lakes brick cheese.  Feesers (in Harrisburg, Pa.) and Sysco Foods (also in Harrisburg, Pa.) do carry Great Lake cheeses, but not the brick cheese.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #359 on: November 16, 2012, 06:46:23 PM »
I purchased a 25 lb. bag of bromated Occident flour at my supplier today.  I also brought the CARANDO pepperoni home from market (CARANDO was the pepperoni I had wanted to slice on Tuesday and use on a BuddyĎs clone, but didnĎt have time to slice it).  The CARANDO pepperoni does taste very similar to the Vermont Smoked pepperoni.  This was the same pepperoni I put under the cheese when I baked two of the Buddyís clones in my moms gas oven. 

What I would like to know is if I should slice the pepperoni and use it on the emergency Buddyís clone pizza tomorrow?  I donít know how helpful the final bake weight would be if I baked the Buddyís clone in my home oven though.  I do plan to use my pizza stone.  I do also plan on using all brick cheese. 

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #360 on: November 16, 2012, 07:37:27 PM »
What I would like to know is if I should slice the pepperoni and use it on the emergency Buddyís clone pizza tomorrow?  I donít know how helpful the final bake weight would be if I baked the Buddyís clone in my home oven though.  I do plan to use my pizza stone.  I do also plan on using all brick cheese.  

Norma,

I don't see any problem with using the Carando pepperoni. It might be difficult to slice 1.25 ounces of that product into 20 slices so I would do the best you can under the circumstances, even if the final count isn't 20 slices. Just distribute the slices across the pizza as evenly as you can.

At this point, I will take whatever weights you end up with. In addition to seeing if a "skin" develops on the dough in the pan as the dough ferments, I'd like to get the unbaked and baked weights to see what the losses are. Also, the closer you can come to the Buddy's bake temperature and time, the better. If you can, I would also like to have the weight of the sauce. You might even use the photo at http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110227-138848-United-States-of-Pizza-Michigan-Buddys.jpg as a rough guide on the amount of sauce to use.

I look forward to your results ;D.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 07:57:39 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #361 on: November 16, 2012, 09:27:10 PM »
Norma,

I don't see any problem with using the Carando pepperoni. It might be difficult to slice 1.25 ounces of that product into 20 slices so I would do the best you can under the circumstances, even if the final count isn't 20 slices. Just distribute the slices across the pizza as evenly as you can.

At this point, I will take whatever weights you end up with. In addition to seeing if a "skin" develops on the dough in the pan as the dough ferments, I'd like to get the unbaked and baked weights to see what the losses are. Also, the closer you can come to the Buddy's bake temperature and time, the better. If you can, I would also like to have the weight of the sauce. You might even use the photo at http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110227-138848-United-States-of-Pizza-Michigan-Buddys.jpg as a rough guide on the amount of sauce to use.

Peter



Peter,

I know if might be difficult to slice 1.25 ounces of the Carando pepperoni into 20 slices, but will do the best I can.  I will weigh the dough, sauce, brick cheese, and pepperoni slices.  I will also time the bake and take the weight of the final baked pizza.  I might do better in my moms gas oven, but will have to see if she will let me bake the Buddyís clone there.  Thanks for the link and picture on Slice to use as a rough guide, but I have no idea of how much sauce that is.  The sauce does look thicker though, at least to my eyes.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #362 on: November 16, 2012, 09:48:14 PM »
Norma,
Maybe if you take a 3-4 in. long piece of that pepperoni that has been frozen you will more easily be able to slice off in your slicer the 1.25 oz. portion you need. Just trying to help.
I know your mom said those last M &M pizza's you made in her gas oven were now all that would be allowed to be baked at her house(they were beauties indeed) but I'll bet you know how to talk her into allowing your new/latest experiment to be tried out in her"mom you have such a good oven"   8)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 09:50:05 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #363 on: November 16, 2012, 10:09:55 PM »
Norma,
Maybe if you take a 3-4 in. long piece of that pepperoni that has been frozen you will more easily be able to slice off in your slicer the 1.25 oz. portion you need. Just trying to help.
I know your mom said those last M &M pizza's you made in her gas oven were now all that would be allowed to be baked at her house(they were beauties indeed) but I'll bet you know how to talk her into allowing your new/latest experiment to be tried out in her"mom you have such a good oven"   8)

Bob,

The pepperoni hasnít ever been frozen and really I donít plan on trying to freeze it, but your idea is good that it might slice better frozen.  I have a electric slicer in my shed, but it isnít the best and I hate to clean it.  I know you are trying to help and I do appreciate that.

I did make the Buddyís clone in her gas oven last week, but she is fussy if I get anything on her counters or table.  She is always trying to clean up after me even before I even put the pizza in the oven.  I always clean my own messes up though.  She does really like the Buddyís clones so I might try her gas oven.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #364 on: November 16, 2012, 10:32:04 PM »
Bob,

The pepperoni hasnít ever been frozen and really I donít plan on trying to freeze it, but your idea is good that it might slice better frozen.  I have a electric slicer in my shed, but it isnít the best and I hate to clean it.  I know you are trying to help and I do appreciate that.

I did make the Buddyís clone in her gas oven last week, but she is fussy if I get anything on her counters or table.  She is always trying to clean up after me even before I even put the pizza in the oven.  I always clean my own messes up though.  She does really like the Buddyís clones so I might try her gas oven.

Norma
Ha!   I hear that Norma!!  I cook most of the meals here....I'll set a stirring spoon or spatula down....go check on the score in the TV room and when I return to my cooking pots I'm like..where's my spoons?!   ;D  Norma...this happens prolly 3 or 4 times during the course of preparing just a 1-2 hr. meal. Neat freaks can get a 'lil freaky on your nerves boy....sheeeesh!  :-D
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #365 on: November 17, 2012, 10:05:33 AM »
I tried the best I could to slice the pepperoni using different knifes.  The pepperoni slices look like a mangled up mess, but there are 20 slices and the pepperoni slices do weigh 1.25 ounces.  I used my regular scale and my small scale to weigh the pepperoni slices.  I could get nice slices of pepperoni if I cut bigger slices, but when trying to cut smaller slices it wasnít meant to be.  I also took a quarter to show how much bigger in diameter the pepperoni is than a quarter.  I also took my paper measuring tape and measured the pepperoni in cm, but that isnít mm.  I also grated 8 ounces of the brick cheese. 

I am going to soon start the Buddyís clone dough because I want to get finished with this experiment fairly early, because I have leaves to rake.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #366 on: November 17, 2012, 11:11:00 AM »
The Buddyís clone dough ball was finished mixing at 10:50 AM.  The final dough temperature was 90.4 degrees F.  I had to heat my warm tap water up in the microwave to get that final dough temperature, because my tap water doesnít really get that high in temperature.  The dough was mixed only with the flat beater on my Kitchen Aid mixer, because there isnít enough dough to use the dough hook.  I used my spatula to mix the dough a little more, until I thought it could be balled, but it really didnít take long to mix.  The dough balled easily.  The dough ball wasnít oiled at all so I can see if the skin will become dry while sitting at room temperature.  The ambient room temperature in my kitchen is still 71 degrees F.  I am not going to do anything to make my ambient room temperature higher.  The 8Ēx10Ē steel pan was oiled with Canola oil.  In a few minutes I wanted to see if the dough ball would press out at all.  It did, but now I am letting it go for a little.  The final dough weight was 274 grams.  I am not sure why it is less than was I was using before (277 grams), but there was some dough on my spoon, spatula, mixing bowl and on the flat beater.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #367 on: November 17, 2012, 02:17:56 PM »
At 11:17 AM the dough was pressed a little more in the steel pan and at 11:40 PM the dough in the steel pan was pressed the whole way and then was left to temper on the counter beside the oven I had just turned on at that time.  The dough was very easy to press out. 

I checked on the dough tempering in the steel pan at 12:50 PM and it looked like it was ready to bake.  I had thought maybe a crust will form on the skin in the steel pan, (because I know other dough balls left out without a cover do develop a crust).  I hadnít checked on the skin in the steel pan since it was stretched the whole way since I had been outside.  The skin did develop a light crust on the skin, but did still ferment.  I donít know how good the picture I took outside shows the crust on the skin, but it was soft underneath the crust.

The pizza was then dressed and put into the oven.  My baking stone was on the second to last bottom rack and the temperature of my baking stone was 500 degrees F.  The bake time was 12 minutes 11 seconds.  The final bake weight of the pizza was 1 lb. 5.7 ounces or 614 grams.  In the one picture the bake final weight just fell a little.     

I used 4.7 ounces of my regular market sauce on this pizza.  I also tore the 1.25 ounces of pepperoni up more, so it would be more evenly distributed over the whole skin.  I wasnít satisfied how I sliced the pepperoni.

I have to also thank lufty now, because he also did a great job in explaining what Buddyís does.  I really donít know, but think the small delicate crust that forms on the skin does help so when the ingredients are added the skin doesnít get weighted down from the weight of the ingredients.  The crumb also stays moist in the bake.  At least that is what I think now.   

If this is anywhere near the way Buddyís makes their dough, tempers the dough in the steel pan, then does the final bake so fast after mixing the dough I think they really came up with a great pizza for such a short time dough.  Right now I think Buddyís is very clever.  This experiment made a lickety-split pizza.

The Buddyís clone pizza was very good in my opinion. 

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #368 on: November 17, 2012, 02:18:49 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #369 on: November 17, 2012, 02:20:00 PM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #370 on: November 17, 2012, 02:21:40 PM »
The only reason I took a picture of the steel pan after the pizza was removed in the second picture was to show that there is still oil in the pan after the bake.

Norma
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 02:26:10 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #371 on: November 17, 2012, 02:23:10 PM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #372 on: November 17, 2012, 02:24:29 PM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #373 on: November 17, 2012, 02:28:07 PM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #374 on: November 17, 2012, 02:39:41 PM »
Wow!  Tasty, tasty looking pizza right there. I'll bet that pie is real good cold too...beautiful Norma, thanks!  :chef:
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