Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 134144 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #360 on: November 16, 2012, 07:37:27 PM »
What I would like to know is if I should slice the pepperoni and use it on the emergency Buddyís clone pizza tomorrow?  I donít know how helpful the final bake weight would be if I baked the Buddyís clone in my home oven though.  I do plan to use my pizza stone.  I do also plan on using all brick cheese.  


Norma,

I don't see any problem with using the Carando pepperoni. It might be difficult to slice 1.25 ounces of that product into 20 slices so I would do the best you can under the circumstances, even if the final count isn't 20 slices. Just distribute the slices across the pizza as evenly as you can.

At this point, I will take whatever weights you end up with. In addition to seeing if a "skin" develops on the dough in the pan as the dough ferments, I'd like to get the unbaked and baked weights to see what the losses are. Also, the closer you can come to the Buddy's bake temperature and time, the better. If you can, I would also like to have the weight of the sauce. You might even use the photo at http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110227-138848-United-States-of-Pizza-Michigan-Buddys.jpg as a rough guide on the amount of sauce to use.

I look forward to your results ;D.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 07:57:39 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #361 on: November 16, 2012, 09:27:10 PM »
Norma,

I don't see any problem with using the Carando pepperoni. It might be difficult to slice 1.25 ounces of that product into 20 slices so I would do the best you can under the circumstances, even if the final count isn't 20 slices. Just distribute the slices across the pizza as evenly as you can.

At this point, I will take whatever weights you end up with. In addition to seeing if a "skin" develops on the dough in the pan as the dough ferments, I'd like to get the unbaked and baked weights to see what the losses are. Also, the closer you can come to the Buddy's bake temperature and time, the better. If you can, I would also like to have the weight of the sauce. You might even use the photo at http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110227-138848-United-States-of-Pizza-Michigan-Buddys.jpg as a rough guide on the amount of sauce to use.

Peter




Peter,

I know if might be difficult to slice 1.25 ounces of the Carando pepperoni into 20 slices, but will do the best I can.  I will weigh the dough, sauce, brick cheese, and pepperoni slices.  I will also time the bake and take the weight of the final baked pizza.  I might do better in my moms gas oven, but will have to see if she will let me bake the Buddyís clone there.  Thanks for the link and picture on Slice to use as a rough guide, but I have no idea of how much sauce that is.  The sauce does look thicker though, at least to my eyes.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #362 on: November 16, 2012, 09:48:14 PM »
Norma,
Maybe if you take a 3-4 in. long piece of that pepperoni that has been frozen you will more easily be able to slice off in your slicer the 1.25 oz. portion you need. Just trying to help.
I know your mom said those last M &M pizza's you made in her gas oven were now all that would be allowed to be baked at her house(they were beauties indeed) but I'll bet you know how to talk her into allowing your new/latest experiment to be tried out in her"mom you have such a good oven"   8)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 09:50:05 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #363 on: November 16, 2012, 10:09:55 PM »
Norma,
Maybe if you take a 3-4 in. long piece of that pepperoni that has been frozen you will more easily be able to slice off in your slicer the 1.25 oz. portion you need. Just trying to help.
I know your mom said those last M &M pizza's you made in her gas oven were now all that would be allowed to be baked at her house(they were beauties indeed) but I'll bet you know how to talk her into allowing your new/latest experiment to be tried out in her"mom you have such a good oven"   8)

Bob,

The pepperoni hasnít ever been frozen and really I donít plan on trying to freeze it, but your idea is good that it might slice better frozen.  I have a electric slicer in my shed, but it isnít the best and I hate to clean it.  I know you are trying to help and I do appreciate that.

I did make the Buddyís clone in her gas oven last week, but she is fussy if I get anything on her counters or table.  She is always trying to clean up after me even before I even put the pizza in the oven.  I always clean my own messes up though.  She does really like the Buddyís clones so I might try her gas oven.

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #364 on: November 16, 2012, 10:32:04 PM »
Bob,

The pepperoni hasnít ever been frozen and really I donít plan on trying to freeze it, but your idea is good that it might slice better frozen.  I have a electric slicer in my shed, but it isnít the best and I hate to clean it.  I know you are trying to help and I do appreciate that.

I did make the Buddyís clone in her gas oven last week, but she is fussy if I get anything on her counters or table.  She is always trying to clean up after me even before I even put the pizza in the oven.  I always clean my own messes up though.  She does really like the Buddyís clones so I might try her gas oven.

Norma
Ha!   I hear that Norma!!  I cook most of the meals here....I'll set a stirring spoon or spatula down....go check on the score in the TV room and when I return to my cooking pots I'm like..where's my spoons?!   ;D  Norma...this happens prolly 3 or 4 times during the course of preparing just a 1-2 hr. meal. Neat freaks can get a 'lil freaky on your nerves boy....sheeeesh!  :-D
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #365 on: November 17, 2012, 10:05:33 AM »
I tried the best I could to slice the pepperoni using different knifes.  The pepperoni slices look like a mangled up mess, but there are 20 slices and the pepperoni slices do weigh 1.25 ounces.  I used my regular scale and my small scale to weigh the pepperoni slices.  I could get nice slices of pepperoni if I cut bigger slices, but when trying to cut smaller slices it wasnít meant to be.  I also took a quarter to show how much bigger in diameter the pepperoni is than a quarter.  I also took my paper measuring tape and measured the pepperoni in cm, but that isnít mm.  I also grated 8 ounces of the brick cheese. 

I am going to soon start the Buddyís clone dough because I want to get finished with this experiment fairly early, because I have leaves to rake.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #366 on: November 17, 2012, 11:11:00 AM »
The Buddyís clone dough ball was finished mixing at 10:50 AM.  The final dough temperature was 90.4 degrees F.  I had to heat my warm tap water up in the microwave to get that final dough temperature, because my tap water doesnít really get that high in temperature.  The dough was mixed only with the flat beater on my Kitchen Aid mixer, because there isnít enough dough to use the dough hook.  I used my spatula to mix the dough a little more, until I thought it could be balled, but it really didnít take long to mix.  The dough balled easily.  The dough ball wasnít oiled at all so I can see if the skin will become dry while sitting at room temperature.  The ambient room temperature in my kitchen is still 71 degrees F.  I am not going to do anything to make my ambient room temperature higher.  The 8Ēx10Ē steel pan was oiled with Canola oil.  In a few minutes I wanted to see if the dough ball would press out at all.  It did, but now I am letting it go for a little.  The final dough weight was 274 grams.  I am not sure why it is less than was I was using before (277 grams), but there was some dough on my spoon, spatula, mixing bowl and on the flat beater.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #367 on: November 17, 2012, 02:17:56 PM »
At 11:17 AM the dough was pressed a little more in the steel pan and at 11:40 PM the dough in the steel pan was pressed the whole way and then was left to temper on the counter beside the oven I had just turned on at that time.  The dough was very easy to press out. 

I checked on the dough tempering in the steel pan at 12:50 PM and it looked like it was ready to bake.  I had thought maybe a crust will form on the skin in the steel pan, (because I know other dough balls left out without a cover do develop a crust).  I hadnít checked on the skin in the steel pan since it was stretched the whole way since I had been outside.  The skin did develop a light crust on the skin, but did still ferment.  I donít know how good the picture I took outside shows the crust on the skin, but it was soft underneath the crust.

The pizza was then dressed and put into the oven.  My baking stone was on the second to last bottom rack and the temperature of my baking stone was 500 degrees F.  The bake time was 12 minutes 11 seconds.  The final bake weight of the pizza was 1 lb. 5.7 ounces or 614 grams.  In the one picture the bake final weight just fell a little.     

I used 4.7 ounces of my regular market sauce on this pizza.  I also tore the 1.25 ounces of pepperoni up more, so it would be more evenly distributed over the whole skin.  I wasnít satisfied how I sliced the pepperoni.

I have to also thank lufty now, because he also did a great job in explaining what Buddyís does.  I really donít know, but think the small delicate crust that forms on the skin does help so when the ingredients are added the skin doesnít get weighted down from the weight of the ingredients.  The crumb also stays moist in the bake.  At least that is what I think now.   

If this is anywhere near the way Buddyís makes their dough, tempers the dough in the steel pan, then does the final bake so fast after mixing the dough I think they really came up with a great pizza for such a short time dough.  Right now I think Buddyís is very clever.  This experiment made a lickety-split pizza.

The Buddyís clone pizza was very good in my opinion. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #368 on: November 17, 2012, 02:18:49 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #369 on: November 17, 2012, 02:20:00 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #370 on: November 17, 2012, 02:21:40 PM »
The only reason I took a picture of the steel pan after the pizza was removed in the second picture was to show that there is still oil in the pan after the bake.

Norma
« Last Edit: November 17, 2012, 02:26:10 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #371 on: November 17, 2012, 02:23:10 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #372 on: November 17, 2012, 02:24:29 PM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #373 on: November 17, 2012, 02:28:07 PM »
Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #374 on: November 17, 2012, 02:39:41 PM »
Wow!  Tasty, tasty looking pizza right there. I'll bet that pie is real good cold too...beautiful Norma, thanks!  :chef:
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #375 on: November 17, 2012, 03:06:38 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for posting your results. The pizza does look very tasty, especially when one considers how quickly the pizza was created.

Sometime this weekend I want to check all of the weight losses for your Buddy's cheese and pepperoni clone pizzas to see if there is consistency of the data. One way or the other, I'd like to see if I can take the slice weight data that dicepackage gave us and work backwards to a dough ball weight. I already know that this will not be an accurate analysis because the cheese and sauce are measured out and dispensed volumetrically and that can easily swing the numbers an ounce or so either direction. Since the pepperoni slices were under the cheese, I will assume that they retained their original weight even though the slices may have released fat during baking.

I assume that you used 8 ounces of the brick cheese. If so, the unbaked weight of the pizza was 9.67 ounces (dough) + 8 ounces (brick cheese) + 4.7 ounces (sauce) + 1.25 ounces (pepperoni slices) = 23.62 ounces. Based on a baked weight of 21.7 ounces, the weight loss was 1.92 ounces, or 8.13%.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #376 on: November 17, 2012, 03:52:02 PM »
Wow!  Tasty, tasty looking pizza right there. I'll bet that pie is real good cold too...beautiful Norma, thanks!  :chef:

Bob,

Thanks!  :)  I don't know how a slice of this kind of pizza tastes cold.  I always ate any slices that were leftover reheated.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #377 on: November 17, 2012, 04:09:07 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for posting your results. The pizza does look very tasty, especially when one considers how quickly the pizza was created.

Sometime this weekend I want to check all of the weight losses for your Buddy's cheese and pepperoni clone pizzas to see if there is consistency of the data. One way or the other, I'd like to see if I can take the slice weight data that dicepackage gave us and work backwards to a dough ball weight. I already know that this will not be an accurate analysis because the cheese and sauce are measured out and dispensed volumetrically and that can easily swing the numbers an ounce or so either direction. Since the pepperoni slices were under the cheese, I will assume that they retained their original weight even though the slices may have released fat during baking.

I assume that you used 8 ounces of the brick cheese. If so, the unbaked weight of the pizza was 9.67 ounces (dough) + 8 ounces (brick cheese) + 4.7 ounces (sauce) + 1.25 ounces (pepperoni slices) = 23.62 ounces. Based on a baked weight of 21.7 ounces, the weight loss was 1.92 ounces, or 8.13%.

Peter


Peter,

The pizza crust was tasty even with how quickly the pizza was created.  I saw that before when I also used 0.80% IDY, but that time the dough was left out at room temperature longer.  I guess the higher dough temperature had something to do with how fast the dough fermented.  Maybe the crusty edges and cheese also make this style of pizza taste better and hide somewhat how the crust tastes.  

I really donít think there will be much of any consistency of all the weight losses for my Buddyís cheese and pepperoni clone pizzas.  They were made differently in amounts of time, different ovens and other different variables.  I hope you have some luck with the slice weight data that dicepackage gave us and can work backwards to a dough ball weight.  I know Buddyís sauce and cheese are all dispensed volumetrically, so that is another problem.  

I found it strange, but the pepperoni couldnít even be tasted much.  I didnít see any fat, or greasiness in the crumb.  Do you think the crust on skin prevented any seepage of fat into the crumb?  I wouldnít think that is possible, but just wondered what you thought.

I did use 8 ounces of the Eddieís brick cheese on this Buddyís clone.  When I see you post those baked weight loss numbers it always amazes me how different they are.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #378 on: November 17, 2012, 06:35:02 PM »
I found it strange, but the pepperoni couldnít even be tasted much.  I didnít see any fat, or greasiness in the crumb.  Do you think the crust on skin prevented any seepage of fat into the crumb?  I wouldnít think that is possible, but just wondered what you thought.

Norma,

I would say that a thin, dry "skin" on the surface of the Buddy's clone dough that was spread in the pan could help prevent or at least minimize seepage of the fat rendered out of the pepperoni during baking into the dough. It could also be that the Carando pepperoni does not lose much fat to its surroundings during baking. As you know, some brands of pepperoni lose more fat during baking than other brands.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #379 on: November 17, 2012, 08:07:38 PM »
Norma,

I spent a good part of the afternoon combing through this thread to find all of the reports you prepared on all of your Buddy's clone pizzas. You are correct. The results were all over the place. I was especially looking for the results of your Buddy's clone cheese and pepperoni pizzas since it was slices of Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizzas that dicepackage purchased and described at Reply 127 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81715.html#msg81715. I identified three such pizzas that you made. Two were baked in your mother's home gas oven but you did not weigh one of those pizzas so I had no usable data for that pizza. The third Buddy's clone cheese and pepperoni pizza was the most recent one that you baked in your home electric oven on a stone, as you described starting with Reply 366 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg224063.html#msg224063. Actually, I thought that your last Buddy's clone pizza was perhaps the best clone to examine because it was a cheese and pepperoni pizza, it used only brick cheese, and it was baked at a temperature and for a time that was similar to what Buddy's is using based on all of our research to date.

After weighing and balancing everything, I decided to ignore the results that you got using your mother's gas oven and the results of your last three-batch Buddy's clone pizzas that had so many variations and where you didn't weigh two of the three pizzas (see posts starting at Reply 275 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg223013.html#msg223013). That left the results that you got with your Buddy's cheese clone pizzas that you baked in your home oven, with and without a stone, and the three-batch Buddy's clone cheese pizzas that you baked at market and described starting at Reply 175 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222024.html#msg222024.

When the dust settled, I concluded that the numbers suggested a typical weight loss value of around 8%.

I then returned to dicepackage's numbers as he set them out at Reply 127 referenced above. I recall when I first saw those numbers and how they stopped me dead in my tracks. After doing some quick analysis, it seemed to me that the amount of dough for a Buddy's 4-square pizza based on dicepackage's numbers was too low. That is the reason why I did not comment on his results. Even now, I have some reservations about dicepackage's data. For example, dicepackage purchased three cheese and pepperoni slices from Buddy's. He did not purchase a whole 4-square cheese and pepperoni pizza. I might add at this point that it is true that Buddy's sells slices of its cheese and pepperoni pizzas (there are two slice options listed on Buddy's menus), but it is not clear whether the slices are reheated. If so, that could cause the weight of a fresh slice to drop even further. Also, you will note that the photo of one of the slices that dicepackage purchased does not show much sauce.

After doing some number crunching based on the information that dicepackage provided, and assuming 8 ounces of brick cheese, 1.25 ounces of pepperoni slices, and 4 ounces of sauce, I concluded that the numbers suggested a dough ball weight of around 9 ounces for a Buddy's 4-square pizza. That would compare with the 9.77 ounces that you have been largely using and corresponds to a thickness factor of 0.112364. That value compares with a thickness factor value of 0.12213 for your 277-gram (9.77 ounces) Buddy's clone dough balls and the 0.1218 thickness factor that PizzaHog used. As you might imagine, a heavy or light hand on the cheese and/or sauce can swing the numbers in such a way as to make it difficult to accurately calculate the amount of dough that Buddy's uses to make its square pizzas.

I can't say that I have a great deal of confidence in the 9-ounce dough ball weight, for the reasons discussed above. A better example to work from would be a fresh Buddy's cheese and pepperoni 4-square pizza that is weighed as soon as possible after coming out of the oven. However, until such time as we are provided with better data, it may be worth making a Buddy's cheese and pepperoni 4-square pizza using 9 ounces of dough if only to see if that number is even workable. I believe the best venue for such a pizza would be your oven at market. I would use the same dough formulation and methods as were last used but with a 9-ounce dough ball.

Peter


 

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