Author Topic: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 232322 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #525 on: November 28, 2012, 04:55:20 PM »
Sorta like a massive Pizza Brain!!  8)
I knew you guys would handle it... :chef:

Bob,

Lol, Steve and I aren't pizza brains, but do learn from each experiment.   :-D

Norma


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #526 on: November 28, 2012, 06:29:43 PM »
Buddy’s pizza was very good.  ;D The crumb was nice and soft and had a great texture.  The bottom crust was tender but crispy.  The one thing that I thought that appeared to be different was although the pizza edges were about the same height as I have been trying on my Buddy’s clones the crumb wasn’t as airy.  There also was a gum line on the pizza (but in a good way and great tasting).  The pepperoni was very good in taste, but like the Buddy’s pizzas I had made with pepperoni the pepperoni can’t really be tasted a lot under the cheese.  Only if Steve and I really tried to notice the pepperoni could it be tasted.  I thought that was a bit odd, as I also thought on my Buddy’s clone pizzas made with two kinds of pepperoni.  I don’t know why, but I expected the bottom crust of Buddy’s pizza not to have air bubbles and be more flat.  It was more like the last pizza I had made in there were some air bubbles under the crust, even before the final bake. Steve and I do think that only brick cheese was used on the Buddy’s pizza.  We couldn’t taste any other cheeses.  The cheese had a buttery taste, but was even milder than the Eddie’s brick cheese that I had tried on some of my attempts.  There was no “tang” at all in the cheese taste of a real Buddy’s pizza.  Steve and I talked it over and think Buddy’s came up with a really good combination of dough, sauce with some spices, brick cheese and baking a pizza in a pan that turns out great. 

Steve and I never really tasted a hot Buddy’s pizza right out of the oven, but really don’t think the hydration of their dough is much above 70% because of the texture of the crumb.  We could be wrong on that though. 

The sauce was thinner than I thought it would be.  There was basil pieces and what tasted like a little sugar, oregano and maybe some pepper in the sauce.  I don’t think there Buddy’s uses the same amount of extra sauce they sent me.  It would seem to Steve and me that not as much sauce is used on their pizza.  When the pizza was sitting there until the final bake, there really didn’t look like much sauce at all, but after the final bake, there appeared to be more sauce.  There are tiny bits of tomatoes in the sauce and Steve and I couldn’t tell if Buddy’s might put the sauce though something to make those tiny bits of what appears to be tomato skins or not.  I took a video of Buddy’s sauce to show what it really looks like, in addition to the pictures of Buddy’s sauce.  This is the video of Buddy‘s sauce.



The Buddy’s pepperoni is a little spicy if tasted plain and is very good.

Steve and I decided after talking that we would oil a steel pan with Canola oil a little so the Buddy’s pizza wouldn’t dry out in the oven. 

I had what I thought was exactly the same container that Buddy’s used for the sauce and got a new container out of my shed.  It weighed exactly the same as Buddy’s container at 8 grams.  There was exactly 8 ounces of sauce in the plastic container. 

We weighed 3 slices of pepperoni and they weighed what is shown in the pictures.  The diameter on one slice was 1 5/16”.  The second slice of pepperoni was a possible difference of 1/32” in diameter being it was a little smaller.

I really don’t know, but really don’t think Buddy’s is using 8 ounces of brick cheese on their pizzas.  At least it sure didn’t appear that way to Steve and me.  I think there might be less brick cheese used on their pizzas, or maybe they do send half-baked pizza out differently.  The cheese also had a hard time melting on the final bake.  After 14 minutes of baking in the steel pan at between 380 degrees F to about 410 degrees F the cheese still had some problems melting.  The broiler was turned and the oven was turned off to get the cheese melted.  It took 15 minutes 39 seconds to finish baking Buddy’s pizza.  Steve and I looked at each other and wondered why it took the cheese so long to melt.  The cheese was a little stretchy as can be seen.  My oven was preheated with the pizza stone for over one hour.

The weight of Buddy’s pizza before it was baked was 539 grams, or 1 lb. 3.0 ounces.  The weight of Buddy’s pizza after it was baked was 521 grams, or 1 lb. 2.4 ounces.  I sure was surprised at the weight of Buddy’s cheese and pepperoni pizza before the bake and after the bake. 

Steve and I both agreed that if Buddy’s had a location in our area we would purchase their pizzas.  We got a little attitude at the end with Pete’s-A-Pizza.

Some of the pictures of Buddy’s pizza were taken outside before the plastic wrapping was removed.

Any questions, just ask.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #527 on: November 28, 2012, 06:31:34 PM »
Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #528 on: November 28, 2012, 06:33:27 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #529 on: November 28, 2012, 06:35:11 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #530 on: November 28, 2012, 06:36:48 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #531 on: November 28, 2012, 06:38:49 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #532 on: November 28, 2012, 06:40:41 PM »
Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #533 on: November 28, 2012, 06:42:59 PM »
Norma


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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #534 on: November 28, 2012, 06:46:36 PM »
I forgot to post that a screen was place under the steel pan while the broiler was on.  I also baked on the second to bottom rack in my home oven on the pizza stone.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #535 on: November 28, 2012, 06:49:14 PM »
Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #536 on: November 28, 2012, 06:52:11 PM »
Norma

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #537 on: November 28, 2012, 06:55:11 PM »
Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #538 on: November 28, 2012, 08:41:22 PM »
Norma,

Thanks to you and Steve for collecting all of the data on your Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza and giving us your assessment and opinions on the pizza. I will confess that I am often skeptical of claims that pizza operators make about the quality of their mail order pizzas. As I was awaiting your report, I was reminded of the experience that member DKM once had when he ordered and baked two frozen deep-dish pizzas that he had purchased from Malnati's. It took me a while to find his report but it is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,571.0.html. It looks like you had better results than DKM had with his frozen Malnati's pizzas. Yet your pizza did not appear to be identical to a freshly baked cheese and pepperoni pizza as sold in Buddy's store based on the photos I have seen of Buddy's pizzas. I don't mean this as a criticism. It is what it is.

I agree with you that Buddy's sent you more of the sauce than they use in their stores for the 4-square pizza. It might fit their 8-square pizza better. However, you at least have a sample in case you want to analyze it or conduct tests on it at some future date. My understanding has always been that Buddy's uses a Stanislaus tomato product of some sort. That aside, I have not found much in my searches on the makeup of the Buddy's sauce but I do recall that tasters mentioned oregano and a hint of garlic. Seeing the basil leaves in the sauce in the YouTube video you prepared, I might add that the Stanislaus tomato products that include basil leaves include the Full Red with Fresh Basil (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Full-Red-Pizza-Sauce-w-Fresh-Basil.pdf), the Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Saporito-Pizza-Sauce-w-Fresh-Basil.pdf), and the SuperDolce (http://www.stanislausfoodproducts.com/_pdfs/Super-Dolce-Pizza-Sauce.pdf). I do not recall that the Buddy's sauce is super sweet, which might rule out the SuperDolce. My recollection is that Buddy's has an herb/spice blend for its sauce and, according to lufty, the former Buddy's employee, the Buddy's pizza sauce is a watered down sauce (Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795). By any chance, did you see any basil leaves in the sauce on the pizza itself?

With respect to the cheese, I can't say that I am surprised that it did not appear that there was 8 ounces on the pizza you received. It's not clear whether all of the pizza assemblers at Buddy's use portioning cups or just free throw the cheese onto the pizza, but in either case, the amount of cheese can vary from one pizza to another. You might also remember that in one of the exchanges that I had with Buddy's I was told that there are variations on the items that go on their pizzas because they are using volume measurements rather than weights. From the photos, it also looks like the Buddy's cheese is diced rather than shredded. Was that your observation also?

It is also good that you were able to confirm that, to the best of your knowledge, there was only one type of cheese used on the pizza you received. To the extent there was a mystery on that point, it appears that it has been resolved. If that is in fact so, then I think it is safe to say that the cheese is brick cheese.

The pepperoni slices appear to be in the ballpark in terms of diameter but a bit light in the weight department when compared with the data you previously received on the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni. No doubt there were some losses in weight due to oiling off during baking and maybe a small amount of shrinkage. In any event, I can't say that we can rule out the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni as the product that Buddy's uses on its pizzas with pepperoni. By any chance, were you able to determine how many pepperoni slices were used in the pizza you received?

Like you, I noticed that the difference between the "before" and "after" weighs of the pizza was not large. However, it should be remembered that there would have been some losses during the partial baking of the pizza. We will never know what those losses were.

On the matter of the crumb and its relationship to the hydration of the dough, it is hard to know what to make of the tighter crumb of the Buddy's pizza you received since the pizza was partially baked and then frozen, making it hard to say whether those two steps had an effect on the crumb.

When I read your comment on the air bubbles at the bottom crust and that the bottom crust was not especially flat, I was reminded that Tom Lehmann was once asked about that over at the PMQ Think Tank. I did a search of that forum and found two questions on that point, one at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=75816#p75816 and the other at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=49630#p49630. I don't believe that Tom ever responded to the first questioner but he did answer the second questioner at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=49641#p49641. Interestingly, Tom blamed shortening for the cratering problem, not oil, which is what the first questioner used. I was also intrigued by the first questioner's post (at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=75816#p75816) since it described a Detroit style dough that has similarities to the Detroit style doughs we have been studying and researching for some time. It was also the first time that I read of someone using the Lloyd anodized pans (most likely a Sicilian pan rather than one of their Detroit style pans, based on the size) to make the questioner's Detroit style pizza.

I'm glad that both you and Steve enjoyed the pizza. But what I'd really like to know is how you (and Steve, if he wishes to opine on the matter) would compare the Buddy's clone pizzas you have been making with the Buddy's pizza you and Steve ate. And did you learn anything from the Buddy'a pizza that would give you cause to change anything you have been doing to arrive at a credible Buddy's clone dough or pizza?

Peter
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 10:02:39 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #539 on: November 28, 2012, 08:57:20 PM »
In the pictures, it looks like the sauce has some oil in it?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #540 on: November 28, 2012, 09:28:32 PM »
In the pictures, it looks like the sauce has some oil in it?
Most marinara sauces do...no?
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #541 on: November 28, 2012, 09:36:05 PM »
Most marinara sauces do...no?

I don't know. Maybe. I was just asking. It's not something I normally do.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #542 on: November 28, 2012, 10:03:55 PM »
All marinara sauces I've had/seen at restaurants here in the States have oil in them....gives it the characteristic red/orange color(depending how much oil is used). It is my understanding that a Detroit Style, traditionally, uses a marinara sauce.

What is the difference between marinara sauce and pomodoro sauce?.....

"Ask several people this question and you'll get several different answers. My answer is based on my background. I'm first born generation here in the states and grew up on my mom's and nonna's Italian cooking. My dad is from Campania and my mom is from Calabria. Growing up, we spent many summers with our relatives in Italy and I was schooled in southern Italy for a year. I think a lot of Italians consider the two sauces the same thing. I have a feeling that's what my mom would say if I asked her ("pomodoro" means tomato).
Marinara sauce is a meatless tomato sauce made with fresh tomatoes, olive oil, garlic and fresh (never dried) basil and salt, that's it. It simmers for only about 20 minutes. The texture is liquidy but with chunks of tomatoes. Since it simmers for a short period of time it retains a lot of it's bright red/orange color as opposed to a deeper red on sauces that simmer for hours. While some of the olive oil blends with the tomatoes, some of it does not. So the olive oil lends a shimmery orange color to the pasta and maybe even adds a tad velvety texture.
A pomodoro sauce, is a lot like the marinara sauce only it's thicker, but still liquidy. It feels a lot like minced tomatoes in your mouth rather than the chuncks you get with marinara sauce. It's cooked a little longer so it's darker in color but not much. "
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #543 on: November 28, 2012, 10:16:47 PM »
No oil in my marinaras, the orange color comes from fresh tomatoes.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #544 on: November 28, 2012, 10:28:41 PM »
What is the difference between marinara sauce and pomodoro sauce?.....


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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #545 on: November 28, 2012, 10:39:57 PM »
Who are you quoting in your quote Bob?
Just some guy on the web that I thought expressed the dominant thought/site topic quite well...search the topic if you prefer but remember , the first sentence was..."Ask several people this question and you'll get several different answers."
So your mileage may vary...heck, even PH's marinara has oil in it.... ;)
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #546 on: November 28, 2012, 10:56:22 PM »
even PH's marinara has oil in it.... ;)

Oil is often a way to make nasty food taste better...
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #547 on: November 28, 2012, 11:09:29 PM »
Oil is often a way to make nasty food taste better...
I don't eat PH(using that as a commonality) but I have had some nasty 'que where I guess they thought by adding oil it made it better...Chinese take out follows suit too.
Just trying to repeat what I have come across in researching marinara and what I have always seen ITRW.  ;)  By all means, leave out the oil if you prefer.....I just don't think Buddy is....
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 11:11:23 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #548 on: November 28, 2012, 11:21:36 PM »
Like I said. I was just asking.
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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #549 on: November 28, 2012, 11:24:44 PM »
I have never had a Buddy's, but I can guarantee you that the only DS I have had is not marinara and contains no oil.

Not that I consider Wiki to be more than half-ass reliable, but it makes no mention of oil and follows pretty much along with my recipe(s):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinara_sauce


 

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