Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 169567 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #640 on: December 04, 2012, 09:58:09 PM »
Norma,

I was going mainly by the color of the cheeses after baking rather than on the caramelization of the cheeses.

Were you happy with the results and did you have a favorite among the five pizzas?

Happy Birthday!!

Peter

Peter,

The second pizza was made only with mozzarellas.  I didnít know you were going by the color of the cheeses after baking rather than the caramelization of the cheeses on the sides.  Did you think the mozzarellas would caramelize the sides about the same as the brick cheese or the AMPI mild white cheddar and mozzarellas?   

I was very happy with the results today.  All the pizzas were really good, but I am still stumped on a few things.  I think my favorite of all five pie made today was the one made with the applewood smoked bacon.

Thanks for the Happy Birthday wish.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #641 on: December 04, 2012, 10:02:10 PM »
I was recently looking at the menu at Tony's Pizza Napoletana, at http://www.tonyspizzanapoletana.com/includes/menu/Fall%20Winter%202012%20proof%206-1.pdf, and was confused about the cheeses used on their Detroit style pizza. The menu says "Wisconsin brick mozzarella, white cheddar". I couldn't tell whether there was an error in the menu that made it unclear on the number of cheeses used (two or three?). So, I sent an email asking for clarification. Tonight I received a response that said that the cheeses used for Tony's Detroit style pizza are Wisconsin brick and white cheddar. The woman who sent me the response admitted that the menu wasn't entirely clear and could be confusing, and thanked me for bringing that to their attention.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 10:33:32 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #642 on: December 04, 2012, 10:03:33 PM »
I don't know about Norma, but my fave was the bacon topped pie. The bacon was so good it completely compensated for the fact that both Norma and myself forgot to put any sauce on the pizza! It really was that good!

Steve,

That was my favorite too!   ;D  You are right that we forgot to add the sauce, but maybe sometimes mistakes can lead to something good.

Steve also brought me a new device to get my pans out of the oven today.  Thanks Steve!  ;D

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #643 on: December 04, 2012, 10:10:31 PM »
I was recently looking at the menu at Tony's Pizza Napoletana, at http://www.tonyspizzanapoletana.com/includes/menu/Fall%20Winter%202012%20proof%206-1.pdf, and was Confused about the cheeses used on their Detroit style pizza. The menu says "Wisconsin brick mozzarella, white cheddar". I couldn't tell whether there was an error in the menu that made it unclear on the number of cheeses used (two or three?). So, I sent an email asking for clarification. Tonight I received a response that said that the cheeses used for Tony's Detroit style pizza are Wisconsin brick and white cheddar. The woman who sent me the response admitted that the menu wasn't entirely clear and could be confusing, and thanked me for bringing that to their attention,

Peter


Peter,

Thanks for the link to Tonyís Pizza Napolentana.  Thanks also for emailing and asking for clarification if they use Wisconsin brick and white cheddar.

Although the Buddyís clone pizza today that was made with all mozzarellas was good, the brick cheese or the AMPI mild cheddar and mozzarellas are better.   I still think Steve and I are too used to using cheddars on some pies though.

Norma  
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #644 on: December 04, 2012, 10:18:21 PM »
Peter,

I wonder what size those Detroit style pies are from Tonyís Pizza Napolentana.  They sure are expensive.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #645 on: December 04, 2012, 10:21:12 PM »
The second pizza was made only with mozzarellas.  I didnít know you were going by the color of the cheeses after baking rather than the caramelization of the cheeses on the sides.  Did you think the mozzarellas would caramelize the sides about the same as the brick cheese or the AMPI mild white cheddar and mozzarellas?    

Norma,

The mozzarella cheeses I use are supermarket low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheeses and if I am not careful in my home oven, the cheeses can brown too much and look like the two pizzas that I mentioned. I couldn't tell from the photos which of your pizzas had the greatest degree of caramelization. I was looking for a balance of the coloration of the cheeses and the caramelization of the cheeses at the perimeters of the pizzas. My reference is the photos of the Buddy's pizzas that I have seen and that show the distinct caramelization of the cheese but where the rest of the cheese is fairly light in color. Of course, Buddy's uses an infrared conveyor and a bake temperature that is around 495 degrees F. Do you recall what bake temperature you used?

Peter
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 11:35:35 AM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #646 on: December 04, 2012, 10:31:42 PM »
I wonder what size those Detroit style pies are from Tonyís Pizza Napolentana.  They sure are expensive.

Norma,

I would guess that the size is 10"x14". I believe that that is the size that is shown in the article at http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/04/25/oh-yes-tonys-pizza-has-detroit-style-pie/. The article was about Tony's slice shop, not his larger restaurant. You will note that the cheese description is correctly given in the photo in the article.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #647 on: December 04, 2012, 10:38:46 PM »
Steve also brought me a new device to get my pans out of the oven today.  Thanks Steve!  ;D

Norma,

FYI, the Detroit Style Pizza Co sells a gripping tool at their website at http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/. However, the gripper that Steve gave you looks to be considerably more durable. I think you can also use it to pull teeth in your spare time.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #648 on: December 04, 2012, 10:43:37 PM »
Norma,

The mozzarella cheeses I use are supermarket low-moisture part-skim mozzarella cheeses and if I am not careful in my home oven, the cheeses can brown too much and look like the two pizzas that I mentioned. I couldn't tell from the photos which of your pizzas had the greatest degree of caramelization. I was looking for a balance of the coloration of the cheeses and the caramelization of the cheeses at the perimeters of the pizzas. My reference is the photos of the Buddy's pizzas that I have seen and that show the distinct caramelization of the cheese but where the rest of the cheese is fairly light in color. Of course, Buddy's uses an infrared conveyor and a bake temperature that is around 475 degrees F. Do you recall what bake temperature you used?

Peter

Peter,

All the Buddyís clone pizzas today had about the same amount of caramelization, except the one that wasnít the same in height.  The one that wasnít the same in height (was a lot less in height) was from the one Steve and I forgot to add the sauce (not the applewood smoked bacon one) and took it out of the oven to add the sauce.  I said to Steve what if all the yeast cells havenít been killed yet and will the pizza still rise if we take it out of the oven and put the sauce on. We both didnít know what would happen.  I saw then when the pizza was finished baking that it was a lot lower in height and didnít figure out why until much later and then used another dough ball that rose the same as the others.  I guess somehow we really messed-up on that one, but at least I know now not to take a Detroit style pizza out of the oven to add sauce.  :-D  It was learning experience.  The crumb on that pizza was very light though and had a nice texture.  The pizza that didnít rise as much I did use AMPI mild cheddar and two mozzarellas as the cheeses.

I think the mozzarellas I use are good mozzarellas because they are foodservice mozzarellas and donĎt brown too much too fast. 

I will post the other pictures tomorrow and do a report on all that happened.  I still donít know, but what has me stumped is that the Buddyís clones that were fermented the longest in the steel pans had the nicest bottom crusts and were the crispest.  I used Canola oil to oil all my pans today, but those results were a little confusing. 

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #649 on: December 04, 2012, 10:47:35 PM »
Norma,

FYI, the Detroit Style Pizza Co sells a gripping tool at their website at http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/. However, the gripper that Steve gave you looks to be considerably more durable. I think you can also use it to pull teeth in your spare time.

Peter

Peter,

I think I have a gripping tool like Detroit Style Pizza Co sells on their website, but I didn't have time to look for it today.  The gripper Steve gave me sure is study.  I don't think Steve and I want to get into a new career anytime soon.  :-D  We are too busy trying to figure out different pizzas.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #650 on: December 04, 2012, 10:51:05 PM »
Norma,

I would guess that the size is 10"x14". I believe that that is the size that is shown in the article at http://insidescoopsf.sfgate.com/blog/2011/04/25/oh-yes-tonys-pizza-has-detroit-style-pie/. The article was about Tony's slice shop, not his larger restaurant. You will note that the cheese description is correctly given in the photo in the article.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the link to the article about the size of the pizzas at Tony's slice shop.  I did note that the cheese description is correctly given in the article.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #651 on: December 04, 2012, 11:20:57 PM »
Mmmm....Bacon....

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #652 on: December 04, 2012, 11:26:33 PM »
Mmmm....Bacon....

Tom,

That is the same thing Steve and I said.  :-D  We both love bacon too, but with this type of pizza it sure adds fats.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #653 on: December 05, 2012, 09:19:29 AM »
This post is to explain more about what happened with the Buddyís clone dough balls and 5 pizza attempts with the Buddyís clone dough balls. 

The emergency dough ball that was made yesterday morning with 0.80% IDY was left at room temperature to ferment.  I am not exactly sure of the ambient room temperature, but it was warm inside market yesterday and would guess the ambient room temperature was around 75 degrees F.  I had looked at the poppy seeds spacing at about 10:20 AM and the poppy seeds spacing at more than doubled.  As can be seen in the second picture I had dropped a couple of small poppy seeds when trying to place the poppy seeds on the dough. 

I tried yesterday on the first four dough balls to just put them in the oiled (Canola oil) steel pans and not flour the dough ball at all to see what would happen.  I had done that at home and at market before, but wanted to see which way the dough would press out easier.  I know I did flour the dough ball some before and it seemed like that was the best way to get the skin to stick to the corner edges.  Steve kept telling me to flour the dough ball first, but I kept telling him I wanted to see which method worked best.  When the dough ball is just placed in the steel pan sometimes the dough sure doesnít press out as well and wants to slip and slide some in the steel pan.  I also wanted to see if the crumb texture, or final baked height would be different. 

The last dough ball was floured a little and was started to be opened on the bench.  That method seems to work the best in keeping the skin from sliding and also makes it much easier to make the edges stick to the steel pan.  There doesnít seem to make any difference in how the skin ferments, or what the texture of the final crumb is though in using either method.

My top deck oven temperature was running around 538 degrees F on some spots when the pizzas were baked, but I didnít take the oven temperatures for all of the bakes.  I only took the amount of minutes the first and last pizza took to bake.  The other ones were just watched to see when I thought they were finished baking.  The bake time for the first pizza was 12 minutes 38 seconds and for the last pizza the bake time was 12 minutes 50 seconds. 

As I posted before 8 ounces of diced brick cheese was used on the first pizza and 5 ounces of AMPI mild white cheddar and 3 ounces of my mozzarellas were used on my last pizza.  Both pizzas had 4 ounces of sauce and 1.25 ounces of pepperoni put under the sauce.   The first pizza weighed 587 grams right out of the oven and the last pizza weighed 578 grams right out of the oven.

I had wanted to bake the first emergency Buddyís clone pizza before I did, but was too busy.  It was baked at about 1:00 PM.  The last Buddyís clone pizza was baked at about 6:30 PM.

All the dough balls I used yesterday were scaled down to 9 ounces.

I had posted before I had signed-up for Buddyís email club for specials and last week received an email that wished me a Happy Birthday and if I would have lived in the Detroit area would have been able to receive a 4 Square Cheese Pizza for my birthday free, or would have been able to receive a 10% discount on any Dine-in, All-You-Can-Eat Dinner Party Package when a birthday is celebrated at Buddy Pizza.  That offer would have been valid until December 26 and had a certificate number to print out.  I liked the picture of what Buddyís sent me so I copied it. 

I had also talked to Tom Kiefer yesterday morning and he said he had called about the brick cheese for me, but didnít still know who the producer was.  Tom said he should have that information next Tuesday. 

Jim, the manager of the Old Mill antique and flea market tried a slice of the one Buddyí clone pizza yesterday.  Jim has tried many of my experimental pizzas and my regular pizzas.  Jim said the Detroit-style pizza is the best I have made yet.

Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #654 on: December 05, 2012, 09:23:50 AM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #655 on: December 05, 2012, 09:25:32 AM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #656 on: December 05, 2012, 09:26:50 AM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #657 on: December 05, 2012, 09:28:31 AM »
Norma
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #658 on: December 05, 2012, 09:30:24 AM »
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #659 on: December 05, 2012, 09:33:00 AM »
The second Buddyís clone dough ball wasnít left to ferment until the poppy seeds spacing had doubled, but the dough when looking at it in the container did look like it had doubled, at least to my eyes.  I had placed that dough ball in a smaller container so really donít know how accurate the poppy seeds spacing is in a smaller container.  The rest of the ferment was done in the steel pan.  For the second Buddyís clone attempt I had wanted to see if my regular mozzarellas would caramelize about the same as brick cheese, or AMPI mild white cheddar and mozzarellas.  I had thought they would, but wasnít really sure.  I thought my regular mozzarellas did caramelize the edges well and made crispy edges too.  I almost always have to see what works and what doesnít.  The second pizza was made with pepperoni on the top, instead of under the cheese.  That way seems to work well too.  Dave, the man that does drawings for me also said he likes the Detroit-style pizzas the best.  He also had a slice yesterday.  

Norma
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