Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 134378 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #660 on: December 05, 2012, 09:34:51 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #661 on: December 05, 2012, 09:36:13 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #662 on: December 05, 2012, 09:38:53 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #663 on: December 05, 2012, 09:47:07 AM »
As I posted last evening the third Buddyís clone attempt didnít rise in height like the others did yesterday.  For awhile I wondered what happened with that pizza did not rise as much in the bake.  As I also posted I think now why that pizza didnít get the same in height was because Steve and I forgot to add the sauce.  I really donít know, but guess somehow the yeast might have been killed, or partly killed when I removed that pan from the oven to add the sauce.  It can be seen on the first picture of how the cheese had started to melt when the pizza really wasnít in the oven for that long.  AMPI mild white cheddar and mozzarellas were used as the cheese on this pizza.  The texture and crumb were good and moist though.  I would have thought that the yeast would activated somehow when the pizza was placed in the oven again, but guess I wonít really understand that part, but it was a learning experience.  The cheeses didnít caramelize as much on that pizza either.  When I mess-up it makes me wonder more what really happened that the cheeses didnĎt caramelize as much either.  :-\ The dough in the pan had risen nicely, but I didnít take any picture of that.

Norma 
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #664 on: December 05, 2012, 09:52:24 AM »
The fourth Buddyís clone attempt was made using the same AMPI mild white cheddar and mozzarellas, but Steve and I baked applewood smoked bacon in the oven first for that pizza.  We also forgot to add sauce to that pizza, but it really didnít need it.  I sure donít know why, but this pizza and the last pizza I made for the day had a much crisper bottom, although it still was very easy to bite.  The dough fermented in the steel pans longer for those last two bakes, so I wonder if somehow the longer ferments make the bottom crisper and a little bit browner.  I am still trying to figure that out and it has me stumped.  The texture of the crumb was better too on the last two bakes. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #665 on: December 05, 2012, 09:54:06 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #666 on: December 05, 2012, 09:55:41 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #667 on: December 05, 2012, 09:56:42 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #668 on: December 05, 2012, 09:59:28 AM »
These reports are getting too long and might confuse other members on what was done, but if there are any questions just ask. 

The final 5th pizza was baked and turned out well.  Steve and I liked the whole 4th and 5th pizzas the best of the day.  I never thought trying to make Detroit-style pizzas would be such a learning process.  :o

Crazy Dave sure was eying up that last pizza..lol.

My granddaughter and her family brought me a pizza gift yesterday to market.  It is a tiny pizza cast iron pan with ingredients to make a pizza.  Guess I will be experimenting more with that tiny pizza cast iron pan and ingredients.  :-D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #669 on: December 05, 2012, 10:02:05 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #670 on: December 05, 2012, 10:04:48 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #671 on: December 05, 2012, 10:07:31 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #672 on: December 05, 2012, 10:09:34 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #673 on: December 05, 2012, 10:11:52 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #674 on: December 05, 2012, 11:14:08 AM »
If anyone is interested, I saw this article on facebook today about Buddyís Half-Baked Pizza Review & Giveaway.

http://www.detroitmommies.com/2012/12/buddys-half-baked-pizza-review-giveaway/

Norma
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Offline jeff v

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #675 on: December 05, 2012, 11:34:42 AM »
Wow Norma! Are you doing this style in addition to others at the market, or do you alternate? I can't imagine there are many places that put out the quality pizza you do on any scale. The market is lucky to have you!

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #676 on: December 05, 2012, 11:41:05 AM »
The Normamachine Market!!!
Save A Cow, Eat A Vegan....Totally Organic And Hormone Free!!

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #677 on: December 05, 2012, 12:20:08 PM »
Wow Norma! Are you doing this style in addition to others at the market, or do you alternate? I can't imagine there are many places that put out the quality pizza you do on any scale. The market is lucky to have you!

Jeff,

Thanks for you kind comments!   :)

I am not doing Detroit style pizzas at market at full speed yet.  I still am on testing waters.  After yesterday, I need to understand more why my last two pizzas got better than the others.  I think I might give up the Greek style pizzas if customers like the Detroit style pizzas.  They are similar, but surely not the same.  If customers like the Detroit style pizzas I would like to offer them with more toppings than my regular NY style pizzas.  If it works out okay, then I would only be making two styles of pizzas.  I don't think I would be able to handle more types of pizza with only Steve and me working and doing everything.

Norma   
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #678 on: December 05, 2012, 12:23:32 PM »
The Normamachine Market!!!

Jon,

I sure am not a machine, but do like to see what customers would really like in our area.  I thought customers might like the Mellow Mushroom clones I was trying to sell, but that wasn't the case.  I did learn a lot on the MM thread though.

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #679 on: December 05, 2012, 12:50:07 PM »
Norma,

Thank you for the comprehensive report and for Steve's input also. It looks like you covered a lot of ground for this style.

After studying the report, I have the following thoughts and comments:

1. For the two pizzas that you weighed after baking (the first and fifth pizzas), the weight losses were 6.92% (for the first pizza) and 8.36% (the last pizza). The weights of those pizzas before baking was 22.25 ounces. The baked weights of the two pizzas, at 587 grams (20.71 ounces) and 578 grams (20.39 ounces), were both more than the final baked weight of the Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza that you recently purchased. However, if we use the average slice weight of 145 grams for the slices that dicepackage purchased from Buddy's, which was also from a cheese and pepperoni pizza, the total baked weight is 4 x 145 = 580 grams. So, your baked weights of 587 grams and 578 grams were very close to the dicepackage calculated weight. I have no good explanation for why the Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza you purchased weighed less than the ones you made or even the total calculated weight based on dicepackage's number. Maybe Buddy's uses less cheese and possibly less sauce (by weight).

2. Of all the pizzas you made, I thought that the third pizza that you prebaked and then added the sauce (which you had forgotten to add at the outset) looked most like the Buddy's cheese and pepperoni pizza that you recently purchased, including what appears to be a comparable height. The third pizza had the blend of the AMPI white cheddar and the mozzarella cheeses. You mentioned the death of the yeast a couple of times in respect of the third pizza but it is the moisture content of the dough that predominantly governs the oven spring of the dough. The yeast will be completely dead when the internal temperature of the crust is 145 degrees. The starches start to gelatinize at 140 degrees F, and be completely gelatinized (but still swelling) at 153 degrees F. If you pulled the pizza out of the oven after the starches had completely gelatinized and set, I don't think that you could have gotten the crust to rise anymore after you put the sauce on the pizza and returned it to the oven. Maybe it was serendipitous that you forgot to add the sauce because maybe that helps explain why the cheese and pepperoni pizza you recently purchased from Buddy's did not seem to have a great deal of height. That pizza was also a parbaked (partially baked) pizza. If you'd like to read how a pizza changes during the course of its bake, you might take a look at page 16 of the Pendleton Flour booklet at http://www.pfmills.com/filebin/pdf/technical_informational_booklet_v1-opt.pdf.

3. It appears that a 9-ounce dough ball was not too small for a 4-square pizza. Of course, we can't say with any certainty that that is the weight of dough ball that Buddy's uses for its small square pizzas. For example, if Buddy's actually uses less cheese than 8 ounces and/or a small amount of sauce, because the cheese and sauce are not weighed, then the dough ball could weigh more and you can end up with the same pre-baked pizza weight.

4. It seems that the brick cheese can brown if the temperature of the oven is high enough. In fact, your mozzarella based pizzas seemed to do better than the brick cheese in that regard. That is what threw me off when I tried to guess which pizza had only the mozzarella cheese. You indicated that your oven temperature at one point was 538 degrees F. Buddy's apparently uses a bake temperature of around 495 degrees F. The cheese color standard that I have used for a Buddy's pizza is essentially the one shown in the photo of http://bp0.blogger.com/__XShj91sMpw/RlJCGZFbuCI/AAAAAAAAAk4/jIeRhr1ub-U/s1600-h/redwings_5.JPG. There are many other photos of Buddy's pizzas that appear to be consistent with that photo.

5. It appears that there are many possible cheese options for the Detroit style pizza, although it appears from your tests that mozzarella cheese only is not the best choice. However, mozzarella cheese with another cheese, such as cheddar or brick, look to be reasonable choices.

6. I do not sense that dicing the cheeses affected the pizzas you made. Buddy's uses a diced cheese (brick) but that may be because they believe, as Grande often says, that a diced cheese is easier to put on a pizza and it may actually require less cheese for the same coverage when compared with shredded cheese. I might add that there are some pizza operators who do not agree with Grande on this point.

7. Canola oil looks to be a good choice to achieve a crispy bottom crust. As previously noted, Buddy's uses oil in its pans. The two oils that I have identified for this purpose are soybean oil and canola oil.

Peter



 

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