Author Topic: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 131745 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #900 on: December 28, 2012, 08:45:31 AM »
These are two pictures of the Buddy’s clone dough ball without salt after the dough ball was fermenting in the fridge for about 11 hrs.  The dough ball has smoothed out nicely.  There was a lot of condensation on the Glad wrap, so I flipped the Glad cling wrap over.  I usually have a tiny hole in the lids of my plastic containers so condensation doesn’t build up as much, but don’t really think the condensation matters.  I know if I would have dough balls in plastic bags like I store my dough balls at market, there is no way for the condensation to escape some, but then I don’t usually have such a high final dough temperature, so I would guess that the higher final dough temperature would form more condensation when the dough ball goes into the cold fridge.  The rubber band was place over the Glad cling wrap again to keep the cling wrap taut. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Online Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9573
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #901 on: December 28, 2012, 09:32:25 AM »
Norma,
Here's a little tool tip that I have recently started using and thought you might like for your steel pans. Beauty shops use a real inexpensive clear plastic hair cap/cover that has an elastic band on it and they work great for irregular shaped pans or just plain old bowls instead of cling wrap (that never really clings). I use them a lot for watermelon and cantaloupe too that goes back into the fridge. You can tie a knot it it to adjust for a smaller size if needed.

http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-13000169-100pcs_disposable_clear_shower_hair_caps_for_spa_salon.html
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21676
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #902 on: December 28, 2012, 09:47:22 AM »
Norma,

Actually, you want to preserve the moisture of condensation and let it fall back onto the dough. Member November discussed this matter at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12531.msg119861/topicseen.html#msg119861, among other places.

Bob's suggestion reminded me of those hotel shower caps that are sometimes given to guests for free. I have used them in the past to cover round storage bowls during the fermentation of dough within the bowls but I don't know if they will stretch enough to cover a rectangular 8" x 10" storage container.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #903 on: December 28, 2012, 10:20:45 AM »
Norma,
Here's a little tool tip that I have recently started using and thought you might like for your steel pans. Beauty shops use a real inexpensive clear plastic hair cap/cover that has an elastic band on it and they work great for irregular shaped pans or just plain old bowls instead of cling wrap (that never really clings). I use them a lot for watermelon and cantaloupe too that goes back into the fridge. You can tie a knot it it to adjust for a smaller size if needed.

http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-13000169-100pcs_disposable_clear_shower_hair_caps_for_spa_salon.html


Bob,

Thanks for the tip about using plastic caps/covers.  I go to Sally’s different times and will look for them.  I think they are called processing caps.  http://www.sallybeauty.com/processing-caps/SLNCAR27,default,pd.html?cm_vc=SEARCH

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #904 on: December 28, 2012, 11:04:47 AM »
Norma,

Actually, you want to preserve the moisture of condensation and let it fall back onto the dough. Member November discussed this matter at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12531.msg119861/topicseen.html#msg119861, among other places.

Bob's suggestion reminded me of those hotel shower caps that are sometimes given to guests for free. I have used them in the past to cover round storage bowls during the fermentation of dough within the bowls but I don't know if they will stretch enough to cover a rectangular 8" x 10" storage container.

Peter


Peter,

I recall you posting about you using shower caps from hotels. 

November is sure smart and I know he knows what he is talking about. I do remember that post from November about the apparatus .   I had to Google what pragmatism meant.  I soon have to start taking memory supplements because I didn’t recall that the condensation should fall back on the dough.  :-D

I have to figure out when to get the dough ball out in the steel pan to start pressing it out.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #905 on: December 28, 2012, 06:03:02 PM »
I had lots of errands to run this afternoon because it is supposed to snow tomorrow and I also had to clean at market, so I took the pan of dough out of the refrigerator at 1:18 PM and had the dough pressed out in the steel pan at 1:22 PM and it went back in the fridge.  When I arrived home at 5:38 PM the dough sure didn’t look like it has risen in the steel pan, if at all.  I wonder why that was when the dough ball did look like it had been fermenting pretty much by looking at the spacing of the poppy seeds.  My guess is since the dough is thinner it doesn’t ferment as much, even when it is at the same temperature in the fridge, but I could be wrong about that.  Somehow using a thinner dough almost stops the fermenting process while in the fridge, or at least that is the way it appears to me.  I then turned on my oven light and am going to wait and see when I think the dough has risen enough to be made into a pizza.  I didn’t plan on trying to make this pizza later tonight, but that is what might happen, because my oven light sure isn’t like my Hatco Unit that I can up in temperature. 

I went to Sally’s today to see if they carried the processing caps.  I asked the saleslady how big the processing caps were but she didn’t know.  I did ask the saleslady if the processing caps are bigger than shower caps that Sally’s also carried, but she didn’t know that either. Because the processing caps are in sealed bags I couldn’t look at them.  I purchased a smaller package of the processing caps (30), but they did have bigger packages of the processing caps for less money.  The processing caps were 2.69 for 30.  I should have taken one of the processing caps out when I went to market, to see if they would also fit my larger steel pans, but didn’t think about that at the time.  I think the processing hats will fit my larger steel pans, but am not sure.  I don’t even know if the processing caps would be food safe.  I would have to ask my food inspector about that.  If those caps aren’t allowed I could also use food safe plastic bags for my steel pans.  I didn’t think about that before.  I did put a processing cap on the steel pan when I put it into the oven to temper.  There still was lots of condensation on the Glad cling wrap when I took the steel pan out of the fridge at 5:38 PM.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #906 on: December 28, 2012, 08:26:41 PM »
Peter,

I want to thank you so much for helping me getting a better height in the final pizza for a Buddy’s clone dough without salt with your list of methods to try.

I kind of was doubting maybe one the methods would not work in my last post, but the dough in the steel pan, (only in my oven with the light on) did ferment very fast with the higher amount of yeast and no salt in the dough.

At 6:25 PM the dough was rising nicely in the steel pan and I left it in the oven until 6:46 PM, then took the pan out of the oven and put it on top of one of my burners on the stove.  I thought the pie then was ready to be dressed.  It was dressed at 7:07 PM after I got a few other things together and my oven heated up some.  I dressed the Buddy’s clone dough with 1.402 ounces of the coarse grind pepperoni, or 20 slices.  I used the blend of Nasonville 1 year old aged white cheddar and Nasonville Pizza Cheese (5 ounces of the one year old aged white cheddar and 3 ounces of the Pizza Cheese).  4 ounces of sauce was place on top before the bake.  I only let my pizza stone heat up for a lot less than an hour on the bottom rack of my oven.  The skin of the dough even stayed moist and didn’t dry out at all like some of my doughs that I have tempered in the Hatco Unit.  I don’t know, but think that since you gave me 1% IDY as a suggestion to use, that is why the dough tempered so fast at a lower temperature.  It might even be that since no salt was used in the dough that could have helped too.  I don’t know what your opinions are on how the dough tempered so nicely in such a short time.

I took a picture at 7:15 seconds into the bake to show how the sides start to brown in that amount of time.  I also took a picture at 9 minutes into the bake to show how the edges and top cheese brown in that amount of time.  The final Buddy’s clone pizza weighed 602 grams right after the bake.

The Buddy’s clone emergency dough pizza sure turned out great in the height, the moistness of the crumb, good caramelization of the edges and a nice crispy bottom crust.  It was delicious in everyway. 

I also took pictures with my cell phone (time included) so it could be seen what the timeline was.  The first picture of the dough in the steel pan on top of the stove was taken at 6:25 PM and the second picture of the dough in the steel pan on top of the stove was taken at 6:46 PM.  The bake time was 12:40 minutes.

The cheese blend also tasted very good on the baked pizza.  I already ate two slices and sure might go back for more.

Hopefully I can get the same results at market.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #907 on: December 28, 2012, 08:28:33 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #908 on: December 28, 2012, 08:29:51 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #909 on: December 28, 2012, 08:31:23 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #910 on: December 28, 2012, 08:34:44 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 382
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #911 on: December 29, 2012, 01:34:49 AM »
Gene,

Since you are from Detroit and have eaten at Buddy’s would you describe the brick cheese on Buddy’s regular pizzas as mild tasting?

Norma

Hi, Norma,

I'm afraid that I can't give you a reliable answer because I left Detroit in 1977 and have been living in NYC ever since.  I do remember (and my memory seems to be confirmed by my own Detroit style pizzas attempts) as a certain "pungency"; however, having learned, from reading this thread, that Buddy's uses sharp white cheddar for the crust, I can't honestly say whether the "pungency" I remember comes from the crust (cheddar) or the cheese in the middle (mozzarella).

My main memory is that, unlike "ordinary" pizza, where you can taste distinct layers - sauce, cheese, pepperoni, etc., with the ability to "pick off" the toppings - with the Detroit-style pizzas, the ingredients and flavors all sort of "melded" and I seem to remember some "creaminess" to the dough.  But again, it's been more than 30 years since I was last in Detroit and tasted the real thing.

I don't know if they're on this thread or the "'Detroit Style' - Buddy's or Shield's" thread (2:30 a.m. here, too tired to search), but there are some posters who ordered Buddy's Pizza from the source, online.  Of course, things could have changed over 30 years, but if you contact one of them and asked them your cheese question, they probably could give you a better answer.

And now, maybe you can help me!  In the ingredients lists on some recent recipes, I have seen the initials "HR" where I would expect to see "water."  What does "HR" stand for?

Thanks.

Gene

« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 01:36:27 AM by gschwim »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #912 on: December 29, 2012, 08:32:35 AM »
Hi, Norma,

I'm afraid that I can't give you a reliable answer because I left Detroit in 1977 and have been living in NYC ever since.  I do remember (and my memory seems to be confirmed by my own Detroit style pizzas attempts) as a certain "pungency"; however, having learned, from reading this thread, that Buddy's uses sharp white cheddar for the crust, I can't honestly say whether the "pungency" I remember comes from the crust (cheddar) or the cheese in the middle (mozzarella).

My main memory is that, unlike "ordinary" pizza, where you can taste distinct layers - sauce, cheese, pepperoni, etc., with the ability to "pick off" the toppings - with the Detroit-style pizzas, the ingredients and flavors all sort of "melded" and I seem to remember some "creaminess" to the dough.  But again, it's been more than 30 years since I was last in Detroit and tasted the real thing.

I don't know if they're on this thread or the "'Detroit Style' - Buddy's or Shield's" thread (2:30 a.m. here, too tired to search), but there are some posters who ordered Buddy's Pizza from the source, online.  Of course, things could have changed over 30 years, but if you contact one of them and asked them your cheese question, they probably could give you a better answer.

And now, maybe you can help me!  In the ingredients lists on some recent recipes, I have seen the initials "HR" where I would expect to see "water."  What does "HR" stand for?

Thanks.

Gene



Gene,

Thanks for telling me what you recall about Buddy’s cheese taste.  I don’t think Buddy’s uses sharp white cheddar now, but only uses brick cheese for their regular non specialty pizzas.  I have used some cheddars in combination with mozzarellas in this thread for Buddy’s clone attempts.  I did also make some attempts with only brick cheese. 

I agree with you that in Buddy’s clone pizza and a real Buddy’s pizza all the flavors are “melded” together and you really can’t tasted each topping like in other styles of pizza.  When you say “creaminess” in the crumb, do you mean it had a light texture if you can recall.  I did read online somewhere in the last few days that Buddy’s did change the recipe from when they started to make their pizzas.  Maybe what you tasted 30 years ago isn’t what a Buddy’s pizza tastes like now.  Do you recall Buddy’s baking in deck ovens back that many years ago?

I did order a real Buddy’s pizza online and it was half-baked.  I just wanted to confirm what other members might have thought of the cheese on a real Buddy’s pizza.

I would like to help you with what “HR” stands for, but don’t recall posting that.  Maybe someone posted on this thread what hydration ratio was.  It is a percent of water used in making a dough.  If you need any other help understanding something on this thread let me know. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21676
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #913 on: December 29, 2012, 09:53:53 AM »
Norma,

I'm glad that your latest cold fermented version of the Buddy's clone dough worked out so well for you. I hope you can achieve comparable results at market.

Since we changed so many variables at one time, it is hard to say which ones had the greatest impact. However, I would say that increasing the amount of yeast and using higher temperatures overall had a material affect on the results, especially when accompanied by the absence of salt in the dough. I am less certain about the effects of using more dough and the preliminary brief (20 minute) rest at room temperature before refrigerating the dough. You would have to repeat the experiment using the 9-ounce dough ball weight and skip the initial rest at room temperature to test those two variables. As it turned out, the total unbaked weight of your latest pizza was 22.90 ounces. The total baked weigh was 21.24 ounces. That was a loss during baking of 7.3%. I would say that your pizza weighed more than a typical Buddy's 4-square cheese and pepperoni pizza. However, that is of no consequence if it turns out that you need the larger dough ball size to get the desired height in the finished crust.

Peter

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21676
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #914 on: December 29, 2012, 10:00:09 AM »
And now, maybe you can help me!  In the ingredients lists on some recent recipes, I have seen the initials "HR" where I would expect to see "water."  What does "HR" stand for?


Gene,

Since you were last on the forum, I put together a list of common pizza-related abbreviations used on the forum. I gradually add to it as new abbreviations are used by members in their posts and are not defined in the such posts. The list is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20056.0.html.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #915 on: December 29, 2012, 11:35:12 AM »
Norma,

Since we changed so many variables at one time, it is hard to say which ones had the greatest impact. However, I would say that increasing the amount of yeast and using higher temperatures overall had a material affect on the results, especially when accompanied by the absence of salt in the dough. I am less certain about the effects of using more dough and the preliminary brief (20 minute) rest at room temperature before refrigerating the dough. You would have to repeat the experiment using the 9-ounce dough ball weight and skip the initial rest at room temperature to test those two variables. As it turned out, the total unbaked weight of your latest pizza was 22.90 ounces. The total baked weigh was 21.24 ounces. That was a loss during baking of 7.3%. I would say that your pizza weighed more than a typical Buddy's 4-square cheese and pepperoni pizza. However, that is of no consequence if it turns out that you need the larger dough ball size to get the desired height in the finished crust.

Peter

Peter,

I know we changed many different variables at one time.  Thanks for telling me which ones you think impacted the final pizza height the most.  At some point in time I will drop the dough ball weight back to 9 ounces and skip the 20 minute rest period before placing the dough in the pan at home to see if that makes any difference.

I will try to repeat what I did tomorrow when I make a bigger batch of Buddy’ clone dough for market.

Norma

Always working and looking for new information!

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 382
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #916 on: December 29, 2012, 06:25:36 PM »
Gene,

Since you were last on the forum, I put together a list of common pizza-related abbreviations used on the forum. I gradually add to it as new abbreviations are used by members in their posts and are not defined in the such posts. The list is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20056.0.html.

Peter


Thanks, Pete.

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 382
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #917 on: December 29, 2012, 07:28:07 PM »
Gene,

Thanks for telling me what you recall about Buddy’s cheese taste.  I don’t think Buddy’s uses sharp white cheddar now, but only uses brick cheese for their regular non specialty pizzas.  I have used some cheddars in combination with mozzarellas in this thread for Buddy’s clone attempts.  I did also make some attempts with only brick cheese. 

I agree with you that in Buddy’s clone pizza and a real Buddy’s pizza all the flavors are “melded” together and you really can’t tasted each topping like in other styles of pizza.  When you say “creaminess” in the crumb, do you mean it had a light texture if you can recall.  I did read online somewhere in the last few days that Buddy’s did change the recipe from when they started to make their pizzas.  Maybe what you tasted 30 years ago isn’t what a Buddy’s pizza tastes like now.  Do you recall Buddy’s baking in deck ovens back that many years ago?

I did order a real Buddy’s pizza online and it was half-baked.  I just wanted to confirm what other members might have thought of the cheese on a real Buddy’s pizza.

I would like to help you with what “HR” stands for, but don’t recall posting that.  Maybe someone posted on this thread what hydration ratio was.  It is a percent of water used in making a dough.  If you need any other help understanding something on this thread let me know. 

Norma

Norma,

Peter helpfully pointed me to an "abbreviations section" he created, so now I know that "HR" means "hydration ratio."  Now I just need to know what brick cheese is.  I've been assuming that it's regular mozzarella, but sold in a block that one shreds oneself, as opposed to buying it already shredded.  But maybe I'm wrong and it's also a variety of cheese - i.e., not mozzarella or maybe mozzarella combined with another kind of cheese?

By "creaminess," I mean that the dough kind of melts in my mouth.  On one of my Detroit pizza attempts, I took it out of the oven a tad too soon and got that kind of mouth feel, so I'm now wondering if Buddy's pizzas are slightly underbaked - maybe a short bake at a high temperature, so that the outside is crisp, but the inside not cooked enough to dry out?  Same idea of a good steak at a steakhouse, where they have grills that, I read, can get up to 1,000 degrees, so you get a steak that's charred on the outside, but rare or even raw on the inside.  I'm gonna try to bake one that way on purpose and see what happens.

Regarding the oven, I always went to the original Buddy's, on Six Mile Road, and though I don't remember exactly, I'm guessing that the door to the kitchen must have been closed because I don't recall seeing the oven.

Peter has spoken with Buddy's personnel in the past.  If you're reading this, Pete, maybe you could call Buddy's and ask what kind of oven they use?  Maybe you can even get bake time and temperature.

Norma, I understand that you sell pizzas commercially, so maybe you can enlighten me on what you think would be the best way to prepare Detroit-style pizzas for large quantity commercial sale.  Should I order, say 100 steel pans, coat them with oil, mix a bulk dough, immediately divide it, put measured portions in the pans and leave them to rise?  Should I let the bulk dough rise, keep it all together and only when someone orders a pizza, pull off a piece, oil a pan, put the dough in the pan, top it and bake it?  Or something in between or something completely different?  What's the best way?  I know the best way for "non-pan" pizzas where one takes a dough ball, stretches it, puts it on a peel, etc., but not for pizzas where one puts the dough in a pan and then into the oven.  In NYC, where I live, pizzerias sell Sicilian pizzas, of course, but people generally order just slices and they order so few of them that it's not unusual for a pizzeria to have to make just one pizza in a large pan for the entire day, so the issue of efficiency never arises.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21133
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #918 on: December 29, 2012, 08:46:09 PM »
Norma,

Peter helpfully pointed me to an "abbreviations section" he created, so now I know that "HR" means "hydration ratio."  Now I just need to know what brick cheese is.  I've been assuming that it's regular mozzarella, but sold in a block that one shreds oneself, as opposed to buying it already shredded.  But maybe I'm wrong and it's also a variety of cheese - i.e., not mozzarella or maybe mozzarella combined with another kind of cheese?

By "creaminess," I mean that the dough kind of melts in my mouth.  On one of my Detroit pizza attempts, I took it out of the oven a tad too soon and got that kind of mouth feel, so I'm now wondering if Buddy's pizzas are slightly underbaked - maybe a short bake at a high temperature, so that the outside is crisp, but the inside not cooked enough to dry out?  Same idea of a good steak at a steakhouse, where they have grills that, I read, can get up to 1,000 degrees, so you get a steak that's charred on the outside, but rare or even raw on the inside.  I'm gonna try to bake one that way on purpose and see what happens.

Regarding the oven, I always went to the original Buddy's, on Six Mile Road, and though I don't remember exactly, I'm guessing that the door to the kitchen must have been closed because I don't recall seeing the oven.

Peter has spoken with Buddy's personnel in the past.  If you're reading this, Pete, maybe you could call Buddy's and ask what kind of oven they use?  Maybe you can even get bake time and temperature.

Norma, I understand that you sell pizzas commercially, so maybe you can enlighten me on what you think would be the best way to prepare Detroit-style pizzas for large quantity commercial sale.  Should I order, say 100 steel pans, coat them with oil, mix a bulk dough, immediately divide it, put measured portions in the pans and leave them to rise?  Should I let the bulk dough rise, keep it all together and only when someone orders a pizza, pull off a piece, oil a pan, put the dough in the pan, top it and bake it?  Or something in between or something completely different?  What's the best way?  I know the best way for "non-pan" pizzas where one takes a dough ball, stretches it, puts it on a peel, etc., but not for pizzas where one puts the dough in a pan and then into the oven.  In NYC, where I live, pizzerias sell Sicilian pizzas, of course, but people generally order just slices and they order so few of them that it's not unusual for a pizzeria to have to make just one pizza in a large pan for the entire day, so the issue of efficiency never arises.



Gene,

This is what Wikipedia says Brick cheese is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_cheese  It is different than mozzarellas, or cheddars.  When I purchased the real Buddy’s pizza the cheese was very mild, but yet is buttery.  You can see what Peter posted about brick cheeses at Reply 724 and the links within that post. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg227440.html#msg227440

I also posted about brick cheeses at Reply 205 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg222298.html#msg222298

I posted the pictures of the Eddie’s brick cheese I purchased from Mandi Cheese Shop at Reply 92 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220599.html#msg220599

Brick cheese is very hard to find in different areas of the country though in a foodservice product.  I have been using some mild cheddar and some mozzarellas on some of my Buddy’s attempts, and to me the Buddy’s attempts taste very good that way if I can’t find brick cheese from a foodservice provider near me. I don’t think I will be able to find a distributor in my area for brick cheese.

In my opinion this kind of crumb does melt in your mouth.  I really don’t think Buddy’s pizzas are underbaked, but the timing, the hydration, amount of IDY, the temper in the steel pan, the right baking of the top and bottom crust, caramelization of the edges, etc. do have to be right to make a decent Buddy‘s clone pizza.

As far as I know Buddy’s have changed to all conveyor ovens now and don’t bake in a deck ovens anymore. If you read the Buddy’s thread that is on there.  

Detroit Style Pizza Company sells already seasoned pans. http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/ As of 1/1/2013 their prices are going up though.  I just purchased more pans from them last week and still got the original price.

If I were younger and had more space at my small pizza stand I would make emergency Buddy’s doughs and make the dough a few times a day.  That is what I have done at home different times.  That is also what we believe Buddy’s is doing.  I really have no ideas how many pans you should order if you plan on doing a Buddy’s clone pizza commercially.  There are also other places that sell the steel pans.  If you use the search function on the main page and put in steel pans, you can read about that.  I do believe you would make the dough, divide, scale and then put the dough balls in the steel pans to temper.  No, I don’t think you should bulk rise the dough and then only pull off a piece and then bake and dress it.  The dough needs to temper in the steel pan until it rises enough.  I am still learning on this thread with Peter’s help what is best methods for me to try.  That is why I did the experiment yesterday, because I want to try and cold ferment my dough in steel pans.  I then might need to use a proofing unit to get my dough to temper enough in the steel pan for my earlier customers.  I still don’t have all of this right in my methods after experimenting for awhile. Buddy’s has all this figured out from the history of their sales and from making their pizzas for many years.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 08:52:20 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21676
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #919 on: December 29, 2012, 11:16:56 PM »
Gene,

Now I just need to know what brick cheese is.  I've been assuming that it's regular mozzarella, but sold in a block that one shreds oneself, as opposed to buying it already shredded.  But maybe I'm wrong and it's also a variety of cheese - i.e., not mozzarella or maybe mozzarella combined with another kind of cheese?


You aren't the only one to be confused about the brick cheese. As an example of this confusion read the paragraph on brick cheese that is just below the fourth photo in the article at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/09/behind-the-slice-klausies-pizza-truck.html. As you will see there, even cheese professionals don't really understand brick cheese.

Peter has spoken with Buddy's personnel in the past.  If you're reading this, Pete, maybe you could call Buddy's and ask what kind of oven they use?  Maybe you can even get bake time and temperature.


There is nary a single thing about Buddy's pizza that has gone undetected by the members of this forum and especially what Norma and I have been doing in this thread over the past two months or so. That includes the ovens that Buddy's uses and the bake temperatures and times plus a hundred and one other things. To help get you up to speed on this subject, you might take a look at Reply 126 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436, including the links referenced therein. Since you were last on the forum, I have updated Reply 126 several times through the use of edits to make that post the master post on the subject of Buddy's pizzas. But to really capture the essence of the Buddy's pizza in its full glory, one has to read this thread in its entirety.

Peter