Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 243631 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #925 on: December 30, 2012, 06:08:51 PM »

I'd be curious to know if there is any Buddy's location, such as the original one, that is still using the original deck oven or replacement deck oven.

Peter

Peter,

I will email Buddy's to see if they will answer what you are curious about.  They might not answer me though, because I have already asked many questions.

Norma


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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #926 on: December 30, 2012, 06:10:42 PM »
Well, the roads were sure slippery in some places going over to market today where the snow was drifting from it being so windy.  Some stretches of the road were dry and other stretches of the road for a long distance were slippery and had a lot of snow on them.  My van did slip a few times.  I am not crazy about driving on snow covered roads, even if it is only to market.

There was some good news though today.  The processing caps do fit on my larger steel pans, in addition to the smaller steel pans, the Buddyís clone dough was easy to mix and it was warmer at market today while I was working.  Last week two stand holders had taken a saw blade and put the thermostat up, by sticking it in a small spot in the locked box.  I guess market people didnít see how hot it was back in our area and didnít turn it down since last week and neither did the two stand holders that had turned the thermostat up.  Thankfully I wasnít involved in doing that.  It was 72 degrees F at market today without me even having to turn my small heater on.

I tried for a final dough temperature of about 90 degrees F with 1% IDY and no salt, and a hydration of 72% today.  I did use really warm water, but still am not sure what my final dough temperature was because now my digital thermometer is broken.  I had to use my one other thermometer I had at market and really couldnít tell what final dough temperature I had, but it looked to be a little over 90 degrees F.  I have no idea what will happen with that.

The Buddyís clone dough mixed easily on speeds 1, 2 and 3 with only the flat beater.  The dough really wasnít sticky and I didnít need to do any stretches and folds.  The mix in the Hobart is very fast for a Buddyís clone dough using this method.  At home my Kitchen Aid mixer does also mix fast with the flat beater, but not as fast and or good as when using the Hobart mixer.  Until I divided, scaled, and formed dough balls the dough was starting to get dry.  The one picture of the dough right after the picture of one dough ball with the poppy seeds on it, it can be seen on that picture of how fast the dough wanted to get dry.  It had some cracks on it until I formed more dough balls.  Of course included also in this time frame was when I oiled the steel pans with Canola oil.  I donít know if I will have to oil the pans first before I mix the dough or not in the future.  The poppy seeds were placed on the one small dough ball to watch how it ferments until tomorrow.  One large dough ball was just oiled and put into the pizza prep fridge so I could also see what happens with that one dough ball and maybe compare how these two methods might work.  The rest of the dough balls were place into the steel pans and put into the deli case.  I would have room for more pans in the deli case if these methods work out.  Hopefully tomorrow things will work out okay.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #927 on: December 30, 2012, 06:13:00 PM »
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #928 on: December 30, 2012, 06:14:19 PM »
Norma

Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #929 on: December 30, 2012, 08:22:18 PM »
Gene,

I am still experimenting with how much time the dough needs to rise in the steel pans using different methods, including using my Hatco Unit to temper some doughs, so I am not really sure of what answer to give you.  I can set the Hatco Unit (basically a pizza holding cabinet that can have heat and humidity) to different temperatures, but I still havenít figured out what temperature to do that at either. 

At home with the last experiment I did with 1% IDY and a higher final dough temperature it took a shorter amount of time than I thought it would for the dough to temper in the steel pan.  I still have a lot of experimenting to do at home and at market.  I sure donít have all of this figured out yet.

I agree with you if you can get your dough to rise in the steel pan in an hour, you are doing very well.  I also agree with you that it is more efficient using an emergency dough like Buddyís does, than trying to cold ferment a dough like I am trying to do for market.  To answer your question about if an overnight dough tastes much better when it is baked, I canít say it does, but for me that might be the way I need to go, instead of trying to make emergency doughs.  I am not sure what I am going to do yet.  For me the flavors of the melted cheese, or cheeses, caramelized edges, soft and airy texture of the crumb, caramelized edges and crispy bottom crust is what I really like about the Buddyís clone pizzas that turn out right for me.

To answer your question if pizzerias used brick cheese instead of mozzarella for the taste, I would say yes.  As I posted before a mild white cheddar and mozzarella blend also give the Buddyís clone pizza almost the same taste as using brick cheese alone.  The mild white cheddar does have a higher fat content like brick cheese.  I am not sure if the brick cheese purchased though a foodservice is cheaper or not.  I am wondering about cheese prices since I saw on the news about milk prices might really be going up.  I really donít know what the prices of brick cheese are from a foodservice distributor.  I havenít found one yet in my area.

What I am really trying to do is produce an ďold schoolĒ Buddyís pizza like when they baked in a deck oven, but I really donít know how they tasted back then, so really I might not achieve what I want.

Are you planning on selling Buddyís clone pizzas commercially in your area?

Norma

I'm a commercial real estate broker in NYC.  A couple of my customers expressed interest in starting a business with me.  For me, it's decide what I want to do and then find a suitable location, but one of my partners owns/operates multiple concepts, so for him it's find a good location and then decide on a menu.  He, like me, is from Detroit, so I'm sure he's open to offering Detroit style pizzas, but it depends on the location.  The other two are the "money guys" (and have great experience and track records as food operators; I'm really a real estate guy), so they have the most say.  If we find a great store that happens to be next to a pizza stand, then we probably wouldn't want to do pizza, too, but would offer something different, such as burgers or espresso.  And so on.  Not so easy finding a great space that three people will agree on!

I showed what I think is a great cafe spot and showed it to another potential partner, who agreed with me, but I have to work with him on his own needs first and then the landlord is not eager to have a food use in the space (currently, it's a hair salon), so we have to convince the landlord, and even then, we might have to bid against other potential tenants.  And then I have to bake a Detroit style pizza for my potential partner and see if he likes it...

But if all the pieces fall into place, I would love to introduce Detroit style pizza to NYC.  But I would be just as happy to introduce a Detroit style Coney Island hot dog, too:  http://www.hollyeats.com/LafayetteConeyIsland.htm.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #930 on: December 30, 2012, 08:33:47 PM »
I agree with you if you can get your dough to rise in the steel pan in an hour, you are doing very well.  I also agree with you that it is more efficient using an emergency dough like Buddyís does, than trying to cold ferment a dough like I am trying to do for market.  To answer your question about if an overnight dough tastes much better when it is baked, I canít say it does, but for me that might be the way I need to go, instead of trying to make emergency doughs.  I am not sure what I am going to do yet.  For me the flavors of the melted cheese, or cheeses, caramelized edges, soft and airy texture of the crumb, caramelized edges and crispy bottom crust is what I really like about the Buddyís clone pizzas that turn out right for me.

I think it's important to keep in mind that a Buddy's dough cannot produce much flavor by itself. Remember that a Buddy's dough comprises only flour, water and yeast. There is no sugar or oil (by their admission) and, I contend, no salt or an imperceptible amount of salt. The flour itself has a protein content of 12.2%, which offers only a modest amount of flavor. Moreover, after only 1-2 hours of room temperature fermentation, there aren't going to be a lot of byproducts of fermentation to contribute to crust flavor. So, the predominant crust flavors will be those of natural wheat and yeast and any flavors attributable to the baking process itself (mostly the effects of the Maillard reactions).

Where the flavors of the pizza come into play are the flavors due to the brick cheese, especially the crispy cheese edges, and the flavors contributed by the sauce and toppings. They will provide the saltiness and other flavors. To its credit, Buddy's has chosen to use high quality ingredients, from the flour, to the cheese (brick cheese), to the Stanislaus tomato products, and to toppings like the Margherita coarse grind pepperoni.

It seems to me to be axiomatic that using a prolonged cold fermentation will add considerably more flavor to the crust itself than will a brief room temperature fermentation. That apparently is what the Hunt boys at Via 313 do. Norma may discover the same benefits.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #931 on: December 30, 2012, 09:34:21 PM »
I'm a commercial real estate broker in NYC.  A couple of my customers expressed interest in starting a business with me.  For me, it's decide what I want to do and then find a suitable location, but one of my partners owns/operates multiple concepts, so for him it's find a good location and then decide on a menu.  He, like me, is from Detroit, so I'm sure he's open to offering Detroit style pizzas, but it depends on the location.  The other two are the "money guys" (and have great experience and track records as food operators; I'm really a real estate guy), so they have the most say.  If we find a great store that happens to be next to a pizza stand, then we probably wouldn't want to do pizza, too, but would offer something different, such as burgers or espresso.  And so on.  Not so easy finding a great space that three people will agree on!

I showed what I think is a great cafe spot and showed it to another potential partner, who agreed with me, but I have to work with him on his own needs first and then the landlord is not eager to have a food use in the space (currently, it's a hair salon), so we have to convince the landlord, and even then, we might have to bid against other potential tenants.  And then I have to bake a Detroit style pizza for my potential partner and see if he likes it...

But if all the pieces fall into place, I would love to introduce Detroit style pizza to NYC.  But I would be just as happy to introduce a Detroit style Coney Island hot dog, too:  http://www.hollyeats.com/LafayetteConeyIsland.htm.

Gene,

Thanks for telling me what all would be involved if you and your friends decide to maybe try some kind of food concept in NYC.  I agree that it wonít be easy to find a great space that three people would agree on.  It would be interesting if you and your partners decided to open a Detroit style pizzeria in NYC.  I wonder how people in NYC would like that style of pizza.  It sounds like Detroit style pizza businesses have taken off in other areas of the US though.  I have been to NYC many different times and tasted different pizzas there. 

Lol, I never heard of a Detroit style Coney Island hot dog, but did eat at Nathanís at Coney Island different times.  Thanks for the link!

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #932 on: December 30, 2012, 09:50:34 PM »
Peter,

What worries me about my dough balls in the steel pans is that I wonder if they might over ferment and rise too much until tomorrow morning.  While I was cutting, scaling and balling before I put the dough balls in the steel pans, the dough did feel like it was fermenting already.  When I balled the dough balls, I could see and feel bubbles in the dough.  Until I got everything together to oil the steel pans and then cut, scaled, balled and oiled the dough balls it was probably about 45 minutes until they got into the steel pans and got their processing caps on.  It was then straight into the deli case, but after just a little while the whole tops of the processing caps were full of moisture and cloudy on the top of the processing caps.

I guess I could punch down the dough balls, then let them temper again and hope for the best tomorrow if the dough balls ferment too much.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #933 on: December 30, 2012, 10:08:37 PM »
Norma,
Those processing caps are a hoot, eh? Hypo allergenic too!  ;D
Bob
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #934 on: December 30, 2012, 10:19:16 PM »
Norma,
Those processing caps are a hoot, eh? Hypo allergenic too!  ;D
Bob

Yep Bob, I also think those processing hats covering the pans are a hoot!  8) Thanks for the idea.  ;D  No stinging my fingers with rubber bands anymore.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #935 on: December 31, 2012, 12:04:22 AM »
Yep Bob, I also think those processing hats covering the pans are a hoot!  8) Thanks for the idea.  ;D  No stinging my fingers with rubber bands anymore.

Norma

Do I cover the pans before or after I take the shower?

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #936 on: December 31, 2012, 06:16:26 AM »
Do I cover the pans before or after I take the shower?

Gene,

Whenever you like.   :)

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #937 on: December 31, 2012, 06:45:58 AM »

I wonder if anyone has heard of Singa's Famous Pizza (http://goo.gl/D5X1I), a popular chain in the area, though mostly outside Manhattan.  What's unique about them, at least at the location I visited, is that they bake their pizzas in round cake pans and bake them in a deck oven.  As I recall, they had only one size pizza.


Gene,

I never heard of Singaís Famous Pizza, but many pizzas are baked in pans in a deck oven.

I do make Greek style pizzas at market with some pictures being at Reply 462 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg208300.html#msg208300 and other pictures of mine scattered throughout that thread and they are something like Detroit style pizzas. being they are made in a steel pan and the edges are caramelized and the bottom crust is crispy, but the texture of crumb from the same recipe I use for my NY style Lehmann dough doesnít get the same as the Buddyís clone doughs.  Another Reply 448 of mine was at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg196025.html#msg196025  That dough is also proofed in a pan.  I use a round heavier steel pan for the Greek style pizzas.  I really also like different recipes for Greek style pizzas in that thread, even though I donít use those recipes for my Greek style pizzas, because it is just easier to use my same Lehmann dough for those Greek style pizzas.

I am not sure, but when I went to the House of Pizza, (near where I live) their pizzas might have been baked in a steel pan.  A few pictures at Reply 1 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17816.msg172578.html#msg172578

I think there are many kinds of pizzas that are made in steel pans.  I also made Sicilian pizzas in a steel pan like I posted at Reply 448  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg206200.html#msg206200 and other places on that thread.  Those Sicilian pizzas almost look like Detroit-style pizzas, but are also not as light in the texture of the crumb.  I think the Sicilian pizzas I made are more like a Jetís pizza, but donít really know since there was never a final dough formulation for a Jetís pizza on the Jetís thread. 

Norma

Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #938 on: December 31, 2012, 11:48:37 AM »
Gene,

I never heard of Singaís Famous Pizza, but many pizzas are baked in pans in a deck oven.

I do make Greek style pizzas at market with some pictures being at Reply 462 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg208300.html#msg208300 and other pictures of mine scattered throughout that thread and they are something like Detroit style pizzas. being they are made in a steel pan and the edges are caramelized and the bottom crust is crispy, but the texture of crumb from the same recipe I use for my NY style Lehmann dough doesnít get the same as the Buddyís clone doughs.  Another Reply 448 of mine was at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,691.msg196025.html#msg196025  That dough is also proofed in a pan.  I use a round heavier steel pan for the Greek style pizzas.  I really also like different recipes for Greek style pizzas in that thread, even though I donít use those recipes for my Greek style pizzas, because it is just easier to use my same Lehmann dough for those Greek style pizzas.

I am not sure, but when I went to the House of Pizza, (near where I live) their pizzas might have been baked in a steel pan.  A few pictures at Reply 1 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17816.msg172578.html#msg172578

I think there are many kinds of pizzas that are made in steel pans.  I also made Sicilian pizzas in a steel pan like I posted at Reply 448  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg206200.html#msg206200 and other places on that thread.  Those Sicilian pizzas almost look like Detroit-style pizzas, but are also not as light in the texture of the crumb.  I think the Sicilian pizzas I made are more like a Jetís pizza, but donít really know since there was never a final dough formulation for a Jetís pizza on the Jetís thread. 

Norma

Singa's is owned by Indians, so maybe there's an Indian pizza?  The one time I went was with an Indian guy, who raved about the cheese and jalapeno pie.  Anyway, it's interesting that cake-pan-in-deck-oven style is popular, or at least known, in so many places.  To my knowledge, Singa's are the only ones who do it that way in the NYC area and I think they have only one location in Manhattan, with the rest in the boroughs, New Jersey, etc.

Definitely a difference in crumb between Sicilian and Detroit style.  Sicilian, at least those I've had in NYC and Detroit, are heavy and "bready."  Detroit style definitely lighter; I'm guessing it's because of the higher hydration?  And then there's the crust.

My impression/understanding is that NYC Sicilian pizza is just the the regular round-pizza dough, spread out in a pan and given time to rise in the pan; certainly, that's the case with all the other bread-based items, again, at least in NYC.  Garlic knots, stromboli, calzones - all made with the same dough they use for the pizzas.

Gene

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #939 on: December 31, 2012, 11:49:44 AM »
Gene,

Whenever you like.   :)

Norma

That's good, because I can fit only so many pans into the shower at one time.

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #940 on: December 31, 2012, 04:30:04 PM »

I'm guessing it's because of the higher hydration?  And then there's the crust.

Gene


Gene,

When I was attempting to make Jetís pizzas, I thought they were also very good along with the Sicilian pies I had made with a somewhat higher hydration.  The crumb of the Jetís and Sicilian pizzas were light, but not as light as the Buddyís clone attempts I have been attempting.

It could be from the higher hydrations that a Detroit style pizza is lighter in the crumb, but probably there are other variables I donít understand.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #941 on: December 31, 2012, 04:32:25 PM »
I did send an email to Buddyís Pizza last evening.

This is what I wrote in an email and what Buddyís Pizza replied this morning.

Hi Buddyís Pizza,

I would like to ask a question about when you changed from deck ovens to conveyor ovens (what years). I see you have been in the business of making pizzas for 66 years and that was before conveyor ovens were used. I wondered if you could also tell me if there are any of your pizza businesses locations that still use a deck oven to make your pizzas, and if they do, if it is a replacement or an original deck oven.

Thanks,

Norma

Thank you for your inquiry. We have been using conveyor ovens for over 30 years.

Have a Safe and Happy New Year!


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #942 on: December 31, 2012, 09:34:30 PM »
Jeff (jeff v) was kind enough to send me some Weyauwega brick cheeses to try on some Buddyís clone pizzas.  I received the Weyauwega mild brick cheese and the Weyauwega aged brick cheese today when I returned from market.  Jeff had the Weyauwega brick cheese packaged very well and the brick cheeses arrived in very good shape.

Thanks so much Jeff for sending me the Weyauwega brick cheeses to try on my Buddyís clone attempts.  I appreciate it very much what you did. 

I am looking forward to trying the Weyauwega brick cheeses on some Buddyís clone attempts next Tuesday.  ;D

The Nutrition Facts for the Weyauwega brick cheese are posted in the second picture.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #943 on: December 31, 2012, 09:37:54 PM »
I just wanted to post that all the Buddyís clone pizzas that were made today did have more height using the Buddyís clone formulation with 72% hydration, no salt and 1% IDY and a higher dough temperature.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #944 on: December 31, 2012, 09:48:49 PM »
Jeff (jeff v) was kind enough to send me some Weyauwega brick cheeses to try on some Buddyís clone pizzas.  I received the Weyauwega mild brick cheese and the Weyauwega aged brick cheese today when I returned from market.  Jeff had the Weyauwega brick cheese packaged very well and the brick cheeses arrived in very good shape.

Thanks so much Jeff for sending me the Weyauwega brick cheeses to try on my Buddyís clone attempts.  I appreciate it very much what you did. 

I am looking forward to trying the Weyauwega brick cheeses on some Buddyís clone attempts next Tuesday.  ;D

The Nutrition Facts for the Weyauwega brick cheese are posted in the second picture.

Norma
I wonder how long they age the one that costs twice as much.....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #945 on: December 31, 2012, 10:13:57 PM »
I wonder how long they age the one that costs twice as much.....

Bob,

I really don't know.  Maybe Jeff will let us know more about the aging process.  I am anxious to taste the differences since I haven't tasted aged brick cheese before.

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #946 on: December 31, 2012, 10:45:38 PM »
OK, sounds good. I would have thought you have tried aged brick already in your experiments Norma...learn something new everyday. I'm sure it will be quite different from what you've been doing and I hope it tastes/melts good for you.Good luck... :chef:
Bob
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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #947 on: December 31, 2012, 11:00:52 PM »

I would have thought you have tried aged brick already in your experiments Norma...learn something new everyday. I'm sure it will be quite different from what you've been doing and I hope it tastes/melts good for you.Good luck... :chef:
Bob


Bob,

No I havenít tried aged brick cheese in my any of the Buddyís clone experiments.  I know Buddyís isnít using aged brick cheese from tasting their pizza, but it will be interesting to try aged brick cheese. 

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #948 on: December 31, 2012, 11:25:12 PM »
Norma,

It is really hard to kill a dough with a lot of yeast, especially one that is fermented for a relatively short period of time. If the fermentation period were several days, and assuming no added sugar in the dough, a point might be reached where the conversion of damaged starch to sugars by enzymatic performance could result in a dough that starts to collapse and produce a final dough with reduced height. Given your relatively short fermentation time, I was not particularly worried about the elevated room temperature, the extended warmup time and the elevated finished dough temperature that you experienced. But I wanted you to see for yourself how those factors would affect your dough, and to react to those factors. Eventually, you will want to develop a fixed protocol for making your Buddy's clone doughs for market, while adjusting as necessary to the many variables at market that can affect dough performance. But so long as you stay between the lines asw much as possible, I think you should be OK overall.

BTW, did you use a 9-ounce dough ball or a 9.5-ounce dough ball? Either way, I do not think that the one percent increase in hydration was responsible for the elevated height in the final crust. I would credit the high-yeast, high-temperature environment.

The brick cheese that jeff v sent you has a similar profile to the other brick cheese candidates that we have considered but with a bit more salt (as reflected by the increased sodium content). But the increase in salt should be imperceptible to the palate.

Peter

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #949 on: December 31, 2012, 11:48:42 PM »
Norma,

It is really hard to kill a dough with a lot of yeast, especially one that is fermented for a relatively short period of time. If the fermentation period were several days, and assuming no added sugar in the dough, a point might be reached where the conversion of damaged starch to sugars by enzymatic performance could result in a dough that starts to collapse and produce a final dough with reduced height. Given your relatively short fermentation time, I was not particularly worried about the elevated room temperature, the extended warmup time and the elevated finished dough temperature that you experienced. But I wanted you to see for yourself how those factors would affect your dough, and to react to those factors. Eventually, you will want to develop a fixed protocol for making your Buddy's clone doughs for market, while adjusting as necessary to the many variables at market that can affect dough performance. But so long as you stay between the lines asw much as possible, I think you should be OK overall.

BTW, did you use a 9-ounce dough ball or a 9.5-ounce dough ball? Either way, I do not think that the one percent increase in hydration was responsible for the elevated height in the final crust. I would credit the high-yeast, high-temperature environment.

The brick cheese that jeff v sent you has a similar profile to the other brick cheese candidates that we have considered but with a bit more salt (as reflected by the increased sodium content). But the increase in salt should be imperceptible to the palate.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for letting me find out myself that it is really hard to kill dough with a lot of yeast.  I really didnít think the high amount of yeast would kill the dough, but was concerned on how it would behave today. 

I know I will want to develop a fixed protocol for making a Buddyís clone dough for market.  I just have a few more things I need to straighten out first.  The only problem I had today was the Buddyís clone pizzas did have the height I wanted, but not too long after the bake, some of them wanted to fall down some where the sauce was applied.  I just stood there and watched that happen in a matter of about 5 minutes.  I will post those pictures tomorrow and also post what else happened, but found it strange that the crust rose well in the bake and then wanted to fall some after sitting out for a little.  I sure donít know what caused that. 

I did use 9.5-ounce dough balls for all the 4-square pizzas I made today.  I made one Buddyís clone pizza that I did weigh the coarse grind pepperoni, the cheese blend and sauce and somehow that pizza weighed a lot less after the bake than the other Buddyís cheese and pepperoni clone pizzas I made before.  That also has me stumped, unless it was because I left it sit there for about 5 minutes before I could weigh it because I had to wait on customers.

I also had a dough ball in a pan that I didnít use in the deli case.  At the end of the day I did spread it in the steel pan and then wanted to bring it home to freeze it to see what would happen if it was frozen.  I forgot that dough in the steel pan.  It should be interesting to see what happened to it when I go to market again.

Thanks for telling me that the brick cheeses that Jeff sent me have a similar profile to the other brick cheese candidates that we have considered, but with a bit more salt.  I donít keep all those profiles handy for different brick cheeses.

Norma