Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!

[Pete-zza]

In case you are wondering, I was not able through my searches to find what kind or model of infrared conveyor oven Buddy's uses.

Norma,

As I have noted before, businesses do not remain static. And I just learned this morning that is what happened with Buddy's ovens.

In an attempt to nail down the type of oven that Buddy's is using, I sent a private message to a highly respected equipment dealer who is a member of the PMQ Think Tank. As it so happens, he is in Michigan near Buddy's stores, and he had mentioned Buddy's in a post some time ago so I knew he was aware of Buddy's. I told him that I was assisting a pizza operator (that is you but I did not give him your name) who was trying to make a Detroit style pizza. I mentioned that Buddy's was believed to be using an infrared conveyor oven, and has been using conveyor ovens for over 30 years, and asked him if he was in a position to tell me what brand and model of conveyor oven Buddy's is using. Here is his reply as of this morning:

Buddy's has switched most of their ovens to the air impingement gas fired models.

Vastly less expensive to run and maintain. No basic change in product quality.

They originally used the Blodgett 1000 deck oven. When the first conveyor ovens (the CTX electric) came out they switched to them as did most of the large chains. Buddy's may have one shop still using CTX ovens

None of the large chains stll use that type oven. Most all have switched to the air impingement ovens. One of the disadvantages in operating that type oven, or any oven that does not have a blower system, is that pizzas cannot be placed close to each other during baking.

As Buddy's experience indicates, it is not the oven (they have used 3 different types) but rather the product and preparation that determines the quality and type of product produced.

We currently are equiping our customers with the XLT oven. Great price, great production, low operating cost, five year warranty.

So there you have it. It is noteworthy that credit is given to the product and its preparation that determines the quality and type of product produced.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

One thing I forgot to post about the two pizzas I made last night from the dough that was made on Sunday, was there was no better flavor in the crust from the longer fermentation time, although the whole slices tasted good.  I guess there needs to be salt added to a dough formulation for better flavors to develop in the crust.  Since the doughs in the steel pans smelled yeasty, I thought there might be better flavors in the crust, but when eating different pieces of just the crust, there wasn’t much, or any flavor at all.  The crust just tasted bland.

Norma,

Did the crust taste the same as one made using the emergency Buddy's clone dough? I don't want to so far as to eat Bob's fedora if I am wrong, since Buddy's sodium Nutrition numbers could be flawed or incomplete, but I still do not see any evidence of Buddy's using salt in its dough, or its level is so small as to be imperceptible on the palate.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

As I have noted before, businesses do not remain static. And I just learned this morning that is what happened with Buddy's ovens.

In an attempt to nail down the type of oven that Buddy's is using, I sent a private message to a highly respected equipment dealer who is a member of the PMQ Think Tank. As it so happens, he is in Michigan near Buddy's stores, and he had mentioned Buddy's in a post some time ago so I knew he was aware of Buddy's. I told him that I was assisting a pizza operator (that is you but I did not give him your name) who was trying to make a Detroit style pizza. I mentioned that Buddy's was believed to be using an infrared conveyor oven, and has been using conveyor ovens for over 30 years, and asked him if he was in a postition to tell me what brand and model of conveyor oven Buddy's is using. Here is his reply as of this morning:

Buddy's has switched most of their ovens to the air impingement gas fired models.

Vastly less expensive to run and maintain. No basic change in product quality.

They originally used the Blodgett 1000 deck oven. When the first conveyor ovens (the CTX electric) came out they switched to them as did most of the large chains. Buddy's may have one shop still using CTX ovens

None of the large chains stll use that type oven. Most all have switched to the air impingement ovens. One of the disadvantages in operating that type oven, or any oven that does not have a blower system, is that pizzas cannot be placed close to each other during baking.

As Buddy's experience indicates, it is not the oven (they have used 3 different types) but rather the product and preparation that determines the quality and type of product produced.

We currently are equiping our customers with the XLT oven. Great price, great production, low operating cost, five year warranty.

So there you have it. It is noteworthy that credit is given to the product and its preparation that determines the quality and type of product produced.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for sending a PM to a highly respected equipment dealer that is a member of PMQ Think Tank and finding out about Buddy’s ovens now and in the past. 

I also believe it is noteworthy that it is the product and its preparation that determines the quality and type of product produced, since Buddy’s has used different ovens.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

Did the crust taste the same as one made using the emergency Buddy's clone dough? I don't want to so far as to eat Bob's fedora if I am wrong, since Buddy's sodium Nutrition numbers could be flawed or incomplete, but I still do not see any evidence of Buddy's using salt in its dough, or its level is so small as to be imperceptible on the palate.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, the crusts on the two slices I ate did taste the same as when using the emergency Buddy's clone dough without salt.  I wouldn't want you to have to eat Bob's fedora. 

Norma

[norma427]

I saw on Buddy’s facebook page yesterday they posted these two posts.

Resolve to spend your new year by visiting our original Buddy's location! Whether you're a fan or you've never been to the 6 Mile and Conant institution, we'll welcome you with great Buddy's Pizza flavor and company. We're located just east of I-75 and north of the Davison. Check out the menu:

http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf

I really don’t know if the Buddy’s menu changed any yet.

Have a fit and healthy resolution for 2013? Buddy's can help. Try our multi-grain crust as a healthier option and choose from no cheese, light cheese and a variety of types of cheeses that will better suit your needs (not to mention healthy, delicious veggie toppings): Check it out: http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/BuddysMultiGrain.pdf

And also posted this Wednesday on facebook.

If you love Buddy's do us a favor and tell Hour Detroit magazine that you think we're the best: http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detroit/Best-of-Detroit-2013-Online-Ballot/

Buddy’s also posted this on facebook December 28, 2012.

Get ready for even more pizza options to appear on our menu into the new year. The Motor City Pizza Collection will stay with us, as will this year's debut, the Great Lakes Pizza Collection. There's more delicious Buddy's Pizza to choose from - and you can have it however you like it (gluten-free, honey wheat crust, original Detroit-style, our traditional pizza sauce or tomato basil - you name it!)

A lady also posted on Buddy’s wall a picture of a pizza she made and said this.  ‎644 miles away from Buddy's Pizza, I made a Buddy's inspired veggie pizza! I miss home!  That was posted December 27, 2012.

The picture is below.  I wonder what Buddy’s would think if I posted one of my Buddy’s clones on their wall.   

I enjoy reading posts by other members on Buddy’s facebook page.

One person posted this back in October.

ordered pizza today from Buddy's in Livonia...probably some of the worst pizza I have ever had. I think I may actually rather have Chuck E Cheese pizza over Buddy's. I will never eat back here again.

Buddy’s told the poster to contact them and they were sorry they felt that way.

Another person back in August wrote this.

Could you please message m the contact information please? It is no longer up in your page.


Buddy’s posted this back.  Buddy's Pizza Yes, you can reach Lara at (248) 855-6222 ext. 200 anytime 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Mon-Fri.

I guess Lara is someone you contact if there are questions, because another poster ask this question.

Can someone tell me if there is a way to get the actually ingredients list for the gluten free pizza? I've searched online and called but I can't seem to get an answer.

Buddy’s answered.

Buddy's Pizza Hi again. We can definitely answer your gluten-free questions. I can have Lara give you a ring if you provide a number (email it to us directly through our page) or feel free to contact her at your convenience at (248) 855-6222 ext. 200 anytime 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Mon-Fri. Sorry you've had trouble finding what you need. We're here to help!

There are a lot of pictures of Buddy’s pizzas that customers purchased on Buddy’s face book page under other people posts, but I haven gone back farther than April 3, 2012.

I don’t know if Lara’s contact number will help us anymore or not.

Norma

[TXCraig1]

A lady also posted on Buddy’s wall a picture of a pizza she made and said this.  ‎644 miles away from Buddy's Pizza, I made a Buddy's inspired veggie pizza! I miss home!  That was posted December 27, 2012.

The picture is below.  I wonder what Buddy’s would think if I posted one of my Buddy’s clones on their wall.   

They probably wouldn't be too happy if you posted a picture of one of your clones on their wall, Norma. All their customers would be asking how to get your pies instead of theirs! 

The pie the other lady posed doesn't look so good, IMO.

CL

[Chicago Bob]

Yep, Norma's pie up there would turn all the others into the...."wall of shame"   

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Resolve to spend your new year by visiting our original Buddy's location! Whether you're a fan or you've never been to the 6 Mile and Conant institution, we'll welcome you with great Buddy's Pizza flavor and company. We're located just east of I-75 and north of the Davison. Check out the menu:

http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf

I really don’t know if the Buddy’s menu changed any yet.

To the best of my knowledge, the Buddy's menus have not changed yet. As of now, Buddy's has basically two menus, depending on the location. One includes appetizers (e.g., http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf), one of which is Buddy's Garlic Bread, and the other (e.g., http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout110.pdf) does not include appetizers but offers Buddy's Bread, whch are breadsticks.

A lady also posted on Buddy’s wall a picture of a pizza she made and said this.  ‎644 miles away from Buddy's Pizza, I made a Buddy's inspired veggie pizza! I miss home!  That was posted December 27, 2012.

The picture is below.  I wonder what Buddy’s would think if I posted one of my Buddy’s clones on their wall.   

I fully agree with Craig and Bob on this one. You should rightfully be proud of your accomplishments with your Buddy's clone pizzas, but remember that pride goeth before the fall. I would rather stay below the radar on this.

ordered pizza today from Buddy's in Livonia...probably some of the worst pizza I have ever had. I think I may actually rather have Chuck E Cheese pizza over Buddy's. I will never eat back here again.

You might be interested in knowing that the photos of the Buddy's pizza shown in the Slice article at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/09/livonia-michigan-mi-great-detroit-style-pizza-at-buddys.html were taken at the Buddy's Livonia location.

Peter

[norma427]

They probably wouldn't be too happy if you posted a picture of one of your clones on their wall, Norma. All their customers would be asking how to get your pies instead of theirs! 

The pie the other lady posed doesn't look so good, IMO.

CL

Craig,

I wouldn’t post a picture of one of my Detroit style pizzas on Buddy’s wall, but was just being devilish.  The other lady sure doesn’t know about this forum, or she could be making pizzas like Buddy’s, or something close.

Norma

[norma427]

Yep, Norma's pie up there would turn all the others into the...."wall of shame"   

Bob,

Some of mine still aren’t right and I even have excellent help.  I am somewhat like Buddy’s in I am not consistent. 

Norma

[Chicago Bob]

I am somewhat like Buddy’s in I am not consistent. 

Norma

See....you're just like the big time professionals Norma!   

[norma427]

Norma,
To the best of my knowledge, the Buddy's menus have not changed yet. As of now, Buddy's has basically two menus, depending on the location. One includes appetizers (e.g., http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout101.pdf), one of which is Buddy's Garlic Bread, and the other (e.g., http://www.buddyspizza.com/documents/Carryout110.pdf) does not include appetizers but offers Buddy's Bread, whch are breadsticks.
I fully agree with Craig and Bob on this one. You should rightfully be proud of your accomplishments with your Buddy's clone pizzas, but remember that pride goeth before the fall. I would rather stay below the radar on this.
You might be interested in knowing that the photos of the Buddy's pizza shown in the Slice article at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2010/09/livonia-michigan-mi-great-detroit-style-pizza-at-buddys.html were taken at the Buddy's Livonia location.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for the links to Buddy’s menus and you saying you didn’t see any changes yet.  I will post if Buddy’s says anything differently about their menus unless you find it first.

I know it is better to stay under the radar on the subject of Buddy’s clone experiments.  I also know whenever you lose pride in whatever you do you are then on the way down.  I don’t want to fail and be brought down when I don’t even have this Buddy’s clone stuff down right yet. 

Do you think the Buddy’s Livonia location is using the CTX conveyor oven, or is there another reason you referred to that Slice article?

Norma

[norma427]

See....you're just like the big time professionals Norma!   

Bob,

I am nothing like the big time professionals.  I only do what I do at a very small pizza stand one day a week. 

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Do you think the Buddy’s Livonia location is using the CTX conveyor oven, or is there another reason you referred to that Slice article?

Norma,

I have no opinion on the oven being used at the Buddy's Livonia location. I referred to the Slice article only because the Buddy's pizza shown in the article did not seem to me to be the best representation of the Buddy's pizza. It could have been the oven but it might also have been an off day or an off time for the pizza maker.

Peter

[norma427]

Peter,

I wondered if you recall this picture of Mary Heller with the Buddy’s pizza being posted on the Buddy’s thread?  I came across it while looking for something else on Goggle images and when I clicked on it, the link lead me to this page   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.260 on the Buddy’s thread.  I looked though the Buddy’s thread quickly and couldn’t find that picture, but I could have missed it.  Do you also know what is in the background of where Mary Heller is standing?  Is it a conveyor oven?

I had to enlarge the photo, so it is blurry, but that one slice looks pretty high in height to me.

I also looked though the Buddy’s thread a little more and do you recall  dicepackage posting at Reply 114 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg79558.html#msg79558 that the Buddy’s pizza at Point Plaza has the sauce underneath the cheese and at the Hamtracmck location the sauce is on top.  If that really is the case Buddy’s locations don’t always do thing the same with the sauce.  dicepackage also wondered in that post what the standard order was for the sauce.

Norma

[Ev]

I have a few wfo NY style dough balls left from yesterday. I think I'll try it on some DS tonight. It's the same flour but only 61% HR and there is a little oil in it, but we'll see what happens. The dough is 3 days old at this point. In the fridge the whole time.

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I wondered if you recall this picture of Mary Heller with the Buddy’s pizza being posted on the Buddy’s thread?  I came across it while looking for something else on Goggle images and when I clicked on it, the link lead me to this page   http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.260 on the Buddy’s thread.  I looked though the Buddy’s thread quickly and couldn’t find that picture, but I could have missed it.  Do you also know what is in the background of where Mary Heller is standing?  Is it a conveyor oven?

I had to enlarge the photo, so it is blurry, but that one slice looks pretty high in height to me.

When I did a Google Image search for Mary Hellers, and clicked the photo you referenced, I was taken to page 7 of the Buddy's thread. If you go to Reply 126 on that page, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436, and read paragraph 7 of that post, you will see that I discussed the ovens shown behind Mary in the photo you referenced, including what appeared to be a triple stack oven. I didn't mention it earlier but it looks like a hood is over the ovens. What previously puzzled me about the ovens is that they did not look like any infrared conveyor ovens that I had seen and they did not look like deck ovens. As best I can tell, it looks like the photo you referenced was taken sometime in 2008. See, for example, the second page of the article at http://lubbockonline.com/stories/030408/liv_253467877.shtml. So, by that time, Buddy's may already had gone to air impingement conveyor ovens. By the way, in case you were wondering who the man was that assembled the Buddy's pizza shown in the photo referenced in Reply 126 at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg, according to http://lubbockonline.com/stories/030408/liv_253467877.shtml, his name was Malcom Rodgers. I did a Google search on that name, to see if maybe he was lufty, but most of the hits I found were to a porn star by that name, and I don't mean food porn.

I also looked though the Buddy’s thread a little more and do you recall  dicepackage posting at Reply 114 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg79558.html#msg79558 that the Buddy’s pizza at Point Plaza has the sauce underneath the cheese and at the Hamtracmck location the sauce is on top.  If that really is the case Buddy’s locations don’t always do thing the same with the sauce.  dicepackage also wondered in that post what the standard order was for the sauce.

I did not recall dicepackage's comments on the location of the sauce but I did recall that PizzaHog commented on variations in practices that he saw at different ones of the Buddy's locations. Reading dicepackage's comments now, it occurs to me that diners may ask for variations in the way that their pizzas are made, which would not be an uncommon or unusual request. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Buddy's Detroiter pizza came into being because some diners wanted the pepperoni slices on top of the pizza rather than under the cheese.

While on the subject of sauce and ovens, the other day I did some further research on Loui's and Shield's since both use deck ovens. What I was wondering was whether their pizzas showed sunken areas under their sauce. After looking at a lot of photos of the Loui's pizzas (for example, see https://www.google.com/search?q=loui's+pizza&hl=en&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=S2XoUOz0IqXd2QW1xYHQCg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1432&bih=695), I came to the conclusion that Loui's distributes the sauce more or less across the entire pizza rather than in the form of stripes as used by Buddy's. That might please diners who like to get sauce in every bite of their pizza (an occasional complaint with the Buddy's sauce stripes) but one of the more common complaints on the Loui's pizzas is that there is too much sauce.

With respect to Shield's, I did not find any evidence of sunken areas in the few photos of their pizzas that I found on Google Images and on Flickr. The main complaint I found with the Shield's pizzas is that the sauce is too sweet.

Peter

[norma427]

I have a few wfo NY style dough balls left from yesterday. I think I'll try it on some DS tonight. It's the same flour but only 61% HR and there is a little oil in it, but we'll see what happens. The dough is 3 days old at this point. In the fridge the whole time.

Steve,

Good for it!    It will be interesting to see what happens.

Norma

[Ev]

By goodly Norma, I think I will!

[norma427]

Norma,
When I did a Google Image search for Mary Hellers, and clicked the photo you referenced, I was taken to page 7 of the Buddy's thread. If you go to Reply 126 on that page, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg81436.html#msg81436, and read paragraph 7 of that post, you will see that I discussed the ovens shown behind Mary in the photo you referenced, including what appeared to be a triple stack oven. I didn't mention it earlier but it looks like a hood is over the ovens. What previously puzzled me about the ovens is that they did not look like any infrared conveyor ovens that I had seen and they did not look like deck ovens. As best I can tell, it looks like the photo you referenced was taken sometime in 2008. See, for example, the second page of the article at http://lubbockonline.com/stories/030408/liv_253467877.shtml. So, by that time, Buddy's may already had gone to air impingement conveyor ovens. By the way, in case you were wondering who the man was that assembled the Buddy's pizza shown in the photo referenced in Reply 126 at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg, according to http://lubbockonline.com/stories/030408/liv_253467877.shtml, his name was Malcom Rodgers. I did a Google search on that name, to see if maybe he was lufty, but most of the hits I found were to a porn star by that name, and I don't mean food porn.
I did not recall dicepackage's comments on the location of the sauce but I did recall that PizzaHog commented on variations in practices that he saw at different ones of the Buddy's locations. Reading dicepackage's comments now, it occurs to me that diners may ask for variations in the way that their pizzas are made, which would not be an uncommon or unusual request. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Buddy's Detroiter pizza came into being because some diners wanted the pepperoni slices on top of the pizza rather than under the cheese.

While on the subject of sauce and ovens, the other day I did some further research on Loui's and Shield's since both use deck ovens. What I was wondering was whether their pizzas showed sunken areas under their sauce. After looking at a lot of photos of the Loui's pizzas (for example, see https://www.google.com/search?q=loui's+pizza&hl=en&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=S2XoUOz0IqXd2QW1xYHQCg&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1432&bih=695), I came to the conclusion that Loui's distributes the sauce more or less across the entire pizza rather than in the form of stripes as used by Buddy's. That might please diners who like to get sauce in every bite of their pizza (an occasional complaint with the Buddy's sauce stripes) but one of the more common complaints on the Loui's pizzas is that there is too much sauce.

With respect to Shield's, I did not find any evidence of sunken areas in the few photos of their pizzas that I found on Google Images and on Flickr. The main complaint I found with the Shield's pizzas is that the sauce is too sweet.

Peter

Peter,

I did see where you posted in paragraph 7 now that you discussed the ovens shown behind Mary in that photo from the link.  I also thought that oven looked like a triple stack oven and didn’t think it looked like any other infrared conveyor oven, or deck ovens I have seen before (although I haven’t seen as many as you).  I see what you mean that the article and photo must have been in 2008 from lubbockonline.com.

I didn’t even notice the name of the man below the picture when the cheese was being applied to the Buddy‘s pizza.  I might search who Malcom Rodgers is on facebook.  You sure don’t leave any stones unturned and looking to see if Malcom Rodgers was lufty was smart on your part.  Finding out about a porn star was funny. 

I didn’t see the comments PizzaHog made in the variations in practices that he saw at different Buddy’s locations, but will have to read that thread the whole way though.  I still haven’t done that yet.  I believe you are right that the Buddy’s Detroiter pizza might have become into being because some of the diners wanted the pepperoni slices on top of the pizza. 

I also looked at lots of pictures of Loui’s pizzas the other day to see if their pizzas look sunken in the middle at all, but saw they didn’t look sunken in the middle.  Maybe I will have to try and apply my sauces as Loui’s does to see what happens.  I didn’t look at pictures of Shield’s pizzas. 

I still haven’t decided if I want to add any salt in the Buddy’s clone formulation for Monday.  The last time I used salt in the Buddy’s clone formulation I used 1.75%.  I am not sure if I should go down, or add no salt at all, but had to many variables in that dough and the one I made last week.

Norma