Author Topic: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 218513 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1175 on: January 15, 2013, 08:43:13 PM »
I sure don’t know if the extra mix time helped to strengthen the Buddy’s clone dough, but it sure seemed to.  These are only the two pies made the first thing this morning, but the Buddy’s clone doughs were tempered at about 104 degrees F in the Hatco Unit for about an hour.  The dough didn’t seem to rise as much as before in the hours time, but I decided to proceed.  What I found was interesting in my opinion.  The dough didn’t have the fermentation bubbles like before when tempered, but when the Buddy’s clone pizzas were baked it rose to the same height and was light and tender in the crumb.  I guess what I mean to say is that the tempered dough did seem stronger.  There also was no sagging under the sauce today, no matter how many ingredients I added to a Buddy’s clone pizzas.  I really can’t understand what was going on with that and it kind of has me stumped in that the dough didn’t seem to rise as much while tempering, but the crust rose the same during the bake and the crumb remained tender and almost melted in your mouth. 

All the doughs acted the same way today when tempering and also the pizzas were the same in the crumb.  I thought it was strange when everything acted the same today from morning until evening.  I sure have no idea if the extra strength in the Buddy’s dough did have something to do with that or not.

I think I might also have another problem, but am not sure if I will.  A man tried the Buddy’s clone cheese pizza today and really liked it.  He said it reminded him of a old time Sicilian pizza that you can’t find anywhere anymore being it was so light and easy to eat.  He also really liked the caramelized edges.  He asked me if I could make him whole pizzas for the Super Bowl and asked if I had a regular pizza shop.  I told the man I didn’t have a regular pizza shop and gave him my phone numbers and told the man I am not sure if I could make whole pizzas for the Super Bowl for him since I can’t be at market on a weekend.  I said I could try to make some half-baked ones and see how that goes before the Super Bowl.  The man did say he had a pizza stone after I questioned him.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1176 on: January 15, 2013, 08:44:36 PM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1177 on: January 15, 2013, 08:46:21 PM »
Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1178 on: January 15, 2013, 09:21:26 PM »
I sure don’t know if the extra mix time helped to strengthen the Buddy’s clone dough, but it sure seemed to.  These are only the two pies made the first thing this morning, but the Buddy’s clone doughs were tempered at about 104 degrees F in the Hatco Unit for about an hour.  The dough didn’t seem to rise as much as before in the hours time, but I decided to proceed.  What I found was interesting in my opinion.  The dough didn’t have the fermentation bubbles like before when tempered, but when the Buddy’s clone pizzas were baked it rose to the same height and was light and tender in the crumb.  I guess what I mean to say is that the tempered dough did seem stronger.  There also was no sagging under the sauce today, no matter how many ingredients I added to a Buddy’s clone pizzas.  I really can’t understand what was going on with that and it kind of has me stumped in that the dough didn’t seem to rise as much while tempering, but the crust rose the same during the bake and the crumb remained tender and almost melted in your mouth. 

All the doughs acted the same way today when tempering and also the pizzas were the same in the crumb.  I thought it was strange when everything acted the same today from morning until evening.  I sure have no idea if the extra strength in the Buddy’s dough did have something to do with that or not.
Norma,

It is always a challenge to explain specific outcomes but the decision to knead the dough more than usual reminded me of the comments I made in the first paragraph of Reply 1111 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg231134.html#msg231134. In light of those comments, it would be interesting to see how a dough made like the last one would perform without salt. If that dough yields a finished crust without sagging or excessive hills and valleys, it would once again resurrect the notion that Buddy's may be using little or no salt in its dough. It would also give greater credence to the desirability of achieving a strong gluten matrix.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1179 on: January 15, 2013, 09:51:59 PM »
Norma,

It is always a challenge to explain specific outcomes but the decision to knead the dough more than usual reminded me of the comments I made in the first paragraph of Reply 1111 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg231134.html#msg231134. In light of those comments, it would be interesting to see how a dough made like the last one would perform without salt. If that dough yields a finished crust without sagging or excessive hills and valleys, it would once again resurrect the notion that Buddy's may be using little or no salt in its dough. It would also give greater credence to the desirability of achieving a strong gluten matrix.

Peter


Peter,

I know it is always a challenge to explain specific outcomes.  I do recall the comments that you made in the first paragraph at Reply 1111.  What do you want me to do?  Do you want me to make a Buddy’s clone dough in my Hobart without salt again?  I understand it would resurrect the notion that Buddy’s may be using little or not salt in its dough.  I will try again if you want me too, but today I had no hills and valleys or no sagging under the sauce.  I was glad for once I had no sagging or no hills and valleys.   

I will post the rest of the pictures tomorrow of some of the other Buddy’s clone pizzas that were made today tomorrow, but most of them were sold fresh out of the oven, so I didn’t have time to take pictures of all of the Buddy’s clone pizzas that were made today.  Some customers were even waiting today for the Buddy’s clone pizzas today. 

My camera also broke down near the end of the day, so Steve will post the pictures of the one Buddy’s clone pizza.  I also had one extra Buddy’s clone dough ball leftover in the steel pan so I gave it to Steve to try in his home oven to see if he gets the same results as I did at market today.

I also wanted to post that I used 9.5 ounces of dough for the 4-square pizzas today and 19 ounces for the 2 8-square pies.  The other thing that stumped me was the 8-square Buddy’s clone pizzas were a lot higher in height than normal.  The dough looked the same when tempered as the 4-square doughs.  That really has me stumped.   

Norma
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1180 on: January 15, 2013, 10:06:52 PM »
Norma,

It sounds like you have a hit on your hands with the Buddy's clone pizzas. That is good.

It is up to you on where to go with the salt matter especially since you have gotten good results using salt in the most recent doughs. It is just in my nature to want to know how things work and how changes affect the results.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1181 on: January 15, 2013, 10:32:00 PM »
Norma,

It sounds like you have a hit on your hands with the Buddy's clone pizzas. That is good.

It is up to you on where to go with the salt matter especially since you have gotten good results using salt in the most recent doughs. It is just in my nature to want to know how things work and how changes affect the results.

Peter

Peter,

I can only hope that customers will continue to like the Buddy’s clone pizzas.  So far word of mouth (even when I am not as busy as when warmer weather is here) from different customers and then they told me that someone told them about my Detroit style pizzas and when the customers try them they really like them.  Hopefully, the Buddy’s clone pizzas will continue to be a hit.  I also would be glad.  I have tried so many experiments for a different pizzas at market and not until these Buddy’s clone pizzas just happened to come along I really didn’t think I would find any kind of pizza that would interest my customers except the NY style pizzas and some Greek style pizzas. 

I will try no salt again.  Do you want me to do the dough mixing at home or at market?  A little dough doesn’t cost much at all.  I know it is your nature to want to know how thing work and how changes affect the results.  I also like to know how things work. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1182 on: January 16, 2013, 07:38:22 AM »
These are the other pictures that I had time to take from yesterday and a few more comments.

I only weighed the AMPI mild white cheddar and the mozzarella blend for one of the Buddy’s clones I made yesterday for a cheese pizza, but that weight was 6 ounces.  That was enough cheeses for a Buddy’s clone in my opinion to have enough melted cheese on the top and also have the caramelized edges.  I don’t think I am not using as much cheeses on my Buddy’s clones as Buddy’s does, unless they also use less cheese on some of their pizzas from freehanding the cheese.

I think, but am not sure right now, that I do like MFB shortening better than Canola oil to oil the steel pans.  The dough presses out very easily using either and also browns the same on the bottom crust, but somehow the dough balls seem easier to press out using the MFB shortening.  The one dough ball that I didn’t oil with olive oil I couldn’t even find.  I didn’t mark it, but all the dough balls in the steel pans with the processing caps on stayed moist on the dough balls and while tempering.

I used the mild Widmer’s brick cheese on the one pepperoni and cheese pizza yesterday.  It can be seen how yellow that mild brick cheese was.  When Steve and I tasted it plain before the bake it was good, but nothing special.  When the Widmer’s brick cheese was baked on the pepperoni pizza it had the best flavors, being it was very buttery and the cheese did stretch very well.  If I had access to Widmer’s mild brick cheese and it was a decent price I would use that brick cheese for my Buddy’s clone pizzas.  Steve and I both did agree that Widmer’s brick cheese is very good, even though the brick cheese is yellowier in color.  The edges using the Widmer’s brick cheese didn’t caramelize the same in color, but that was okay because they still were crispy and tasty. 

I didn’t have time yesterday and ran out of dough balls yesterday before had a chance to try Jeff’s aged brick cheese and Widmer’s aged brick cheese.  Hopefully next week I can try them.

Jim, the manager of the Old Mill Antique and Flea Market really likes Pete-zza’s TexItaliano pizza.  He said the flavors of everything blend so well together and the taste of that Buddy‘s clone pizza is perfect to him. Jim purchased a few slices of it yesterday and gave one slice to Finky the french fry man.  Finky then came and ordered a large Pete-zza’s TexItaliano for next week later in the day.  This week I used red and yellow diced sweet peppers along with the jalapenos.  The meat balls I get from my foodservice provider are very good.  They are already precooked, but I heat them up in the deck oven for a little to get better flavor out of them and then put them in the pizza prep fridge before slicing the meatballs. Steve has the pictures on his camera that he said he is going to post of the one 8-square Pete-zza’s TexItaliano pizza that shows how much higher in height that crust was at the edges and center of the pizza.  As I posted last evening I wonder why that pizza got so high in height when I used 19 ounces of dough and the tempered dough didn’t look any more fermented than other Buddy’s clones I made yesterday.  Steve and I both wondered how that happened.  The one Pete-zza’s TexItaliano Buddy’s clone I am posting pictures of did have the sauce applied under the veggies, but the one Steve is going to post pictures of does have the sauce applied on top of all the other dressings.  I think I prefer the sauce applied on top.

None of the doughs when tempered in the Hatco Unit (the same time as last week) didn’t look as fermented before adding the dressings.  A few doughs in the steel pans were pulled out of the Hatco Unit and just let at room temperature until I had time to dress them and then do the final bake.

On the cheese and pepperoni Buddy’s clones made yesterday the pepperoni was put on in the last 4 minutes of the bake.  That seems to bake the pepperoni okay without browning it too much.

I didn’t know how Steve prepared his Mesquite chicken for his Marco Pollo Buddy’s clone last week, so I just made a Ev’s Marco Pollo this week with white breast chicken and Frank’s hot sauce and added celery and dressed with Ken’s chunky blue cheese after the bake.  The white breast meat was fried in butter.

These Buddy’s clone pizzas are very easy to dress and then put into the oven after the dough is tempered in the Hatco Unit.  The bake time doesn’t seem as critical as when making other pizzas.  I still am having problems with having different toppings Buddy’s clone pizzas ready for customers though.   

One good thing was the AMPI mild white cheddar in the 5 lb. block did go down by .35 a lb. this week, but who knows what will happen the weeks to follow.   

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1183 on: January 16, 2013, 07:39:44 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1184 on: January 16, 2013, 07:41:12 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1185 on: January 16, 2013, 07:42:54 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1186 on: January 16, 2013, 07:44:37 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1187 on: January 16, 2013, 07:46:53 AM »
Norma
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Offline Trinity

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1188 on: January 16, 2013, 08:09:46 AM »
Oh My God!!! :o That looks fantastic!!! :chef:
It's an Earth food. They are called Swedish meatballs. It's a strange thing, but every sentient race has its own version of these Swedish meatballs! I suspect it's one of those great universal mysteries which will either never be explained, or which would drive you mad if you ever learned the truth.

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1189 on: January 16, 2013, 08:19:06 AM »
Oh My God!!! :o That looks fantastic!!! :chef:


Trin,

Thanks!  :)

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1190 on: January 16, 2013, 08:19:40 AM »
Here's the last TexItaliano pie that Norma mentioned that I photographed after her camera broke.

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1191 on: January 16, 2013, 08:19:55 AM »
I was looking on Google to see if I could find out about a carry out Buddy’s pizza business at 12th and hayes, because Buddy’s Pizza had asked on facebook what are your favorite memories of Buddy’s Pizza. The one poster said she really liked the carry out Buddy’s pizza at 12th and hayes, but that Buddy’s carry out isn’t there anymore.  I then found this thread about Best Pizzas in Detroit. http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?10241-Best-Pizza-in-Detroit  p69rrh51 the one poster on the thread said this.  “As for Buddy's I have been going to the original location probably before you were born and have watch the deterioration of the product fall to the point that I cannot even think about consuming it anymore! It also interesting that they had to lie on their radio ads to the point that they had to change the wording!”.  I wonder what that poster meant by they had to change the wording on their radio ads.  There are also other posters on the 5 page thread that commented that Buddy’s isn’t what it used to be and other posters do like Buddy’s pizza.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 08:25:39 AM by norma427 »
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1192 on: January 16, 2013, 08:21:33 AM »
............and our evening cocktail.

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1193 on: January 16, 2013, 08:23:51 AM »
Steve,

Thank you for posting the pictures and for the cocktail.  That sure was a good cocktail at the end of the day.  ;D

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1194 on: January 16, 2013, 08:37:08 AM »
My pleasure, Norma. ;)

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1195 on: January 16, 2013, 09:36:09 AM »
Norma, what bake temp/time are you using now?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1196 on: January 16, 2013, 10:52:04 AM »
I was looking on Google to see if I could find out about a carry out Buddy’s pizza business at 12th and hayes, because Buddy’s Pizza had asked on facebook what are your favorite memories of Buddy’s Pizza. The one poster said she really liked the carry out Buddy’s pizza at 12th and hayes, but that Buddy’s carry out isn’t there anymore.  I then found this thread about Best Pizzas in Detroit. http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?10241-Best-Pizza-in-Detroit  p69rrh51 the one poster on the thread said this.  “As for Buddy's I have been going to the original location probably before you were born and have watch the deterioration of the product fall to the point that I cannot even think about consuming it anymore! It also interesting that they had to lie on their radio ads to the point that they had to change the wording!”.  I wonder what that poster meant by they had to change the wording on their radio ads. There are also other posters on the 5 page thread that commented that Buddy’s isn’t what it used to be and other posters do like Buddy’s pizza.

Norma

Norma,
I think you would agree with me that when you have older folks(like us :)) who have enjoyed a particular pizzeria over a long period of time....the pizza is never going to be "like it was". Just the changes in the way ingredients are produced over the years is going to make that happen. I think maybe that one guy was disgruntled about Buddy's for some other reason. I don't know how Buddy's pizza was back in the day but when looking at all the photo's of "today's" Buddy's I don't see that they have turned it into something unfit for consumption.I know you feel the same. Oh well.... ::)
Bob
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 10:53:53 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1197 on: January 16, 2013, 12:07:34 PM »
Norma, what bake temp/time are you using now?

Craig,

I haven’t tried my bottom deck for awhile in this thread to try and bake a Buddy’s clone pizza.  My bottom deck is usually around 538 degrees F depending on how much the doors are opened and shut.  When I tried to bake the Buddy’s pizza clones on the bottom deck before is this thread I didn’t get the right top and bottoming browning, but I don’t know if that would change now since I have tried different other things.  My top deck is where I am baking all the Buddy’s clone pizzas now and I haven’t taken that temperature for awhile, but it is usually a little cooler on that deck.  I don’t time my bakes anymore and just go on when I think the Buddy’ clones pizzas are done baking.  If you want me to take the top decks temperature next week and also the bake times of different Buddy’s clones pizzas I make I can do that.

Norma
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1198 on: January 16, 2013, 12:16:56 PM »
I'd be curious to know the temperature, but not if it is a hassle. Please don't go to any extra work.

CL
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Re: Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1199 on: January 16, 2013, 12:20:51 PM »
Norma,
I think you would agree with me that when you have older folks(like us :)) who have enjoyed a particular pizzeria over a long period of time....the pizza is never going to be "like it was". Just the changes in the way ingredients are produced over the years is going to make that happen. I think maybe that one guy was disgruntled about Buddy's for some other reason. I don't know how Buddy's pizza was back in the day but when looking at all the photo's of "today's" Buddy's I don't see that they have turned it into something unfit for consumption.I know you feel the same. Oh well.... ::)
Bob

Bob,

I don’t think Buddy’s pizzas today have turned into something unfit, but have seen someone that has eaten Buddy’s pizzas for a long while post on the Buddy’s thread, that Buddy’s pizzas have changed over the years.  For a Buddy’s pizza I sure don’t know what all has changed, but the brick cheese has changed.  In that other Detroit forum thread I posted in Reply #1191 there was more than one poster that had eaten Buddy’s pizza years ago and posted Buddy’s pizzas did change and even some posters said it all depends on what Buddy‘s location they purchased their pizzas from how good they would.  I don’t take a lot of stock in what said, but do note what was said.

I also got to try a real Buddy’s pizza on this thread and thought it was good.

I know my beloved Mack’s pizza has stayed the same to me in the taste of the cheese, but the crust over time changes.  I can understand with different employees at any pizzeria, change of ingredients, how much the dough is fermented, changed kinds of ovens, temper times etc. that pizzas do change somewhat, but do stay basically the same.

Norma
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