Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 216465 times)

mrmojo1 and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23193
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1250 on: January 19, 2013, 07:44:33 AM »
I even wonder if the dough experiment with the aggressive kneading would even benefit this kind of dough.  I had mentioned in my other post that I thought the flat beater did a good job, with out all the other mixing.  When I was finished with mixing with the flat beater on different speeds from 1-3 (like at home with salt) the dough felt ready to be balled.  I then mixed with the dough hook on those high speeds and went back to the flat beater and the dough without salt sure didnít feel any different to me, than just using the flat beater on 3 speeds.  I thought just ball the Buddyís clone dough without salt and wait and see what happens.   
Norma,

You might recall that I cited an article for a very high hydration dough at https://sites.google.com/site/hollosyt/quickrusticciabattapizza. If you look at that article, you will see that the dough is mixed and kneaded entirely with the flat beater (paddle) attachment at high speed for several minutes. I estimate the hydration value for the recipe cited in the article to be a bit over 90%, but as you know from your Pizzarium experience doughs with very high hydration but properly kneaded can be handled without a lot of sticking to the fingers. In Buddy's case, lufty told us that the dough during his tenure at Buddy's was formed into balls and scaled after mixing and placed in pans (Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795). As I mentioned before, I believe the hydration value for Buddy's dough is set at a value to allow even fairly inexperienced workers to be able to make the dough using practices that can be followed at all of Buddy's locations as a standardized procedure. In a home setting where you are only making a few pizzas, you can get away with much higher hydrations but in a commercial setting like Buddy's the bulk dough has to be easy to divide, scale and pan without sticking to everything. 

Another thing you will note from the above article is that the amount of yeast cited is over 1% (about 1.2% if IDY is used). At that value, the dough is essentially an emergency dough, just like Buddy's. You will also note the lack of oil or sugar in the dough described in the article. However, salt is used, at 2.8%.

Peter


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1251 on: January 19, 2013, 09:20:39 AM »
Norma,

You might recall that I cited an article for a very high hydration dough at https://sites.google.com/site/hollosyt/quickrusticciabattapizza. If you look at that article, you will see that the dough is mixed and kneaded entirely with the flat beater (paddle) attachment at high speed for several minutes. I estimate the hydration value for the recipe cited in the article to be a bit over 90%, but as you know from your Pizzarium experience doughs with very high hydration but properly kneaded can be handled without a lot of sticking to the fingers. In Buddy's case, lufty told us that the dough during his tenure at Buddy's was formed into balls and scaled after mixing and placed in pans (Reply 318 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795). As I mentioned before, I believe the hydration value for Buddy's dough is set at a value to allow even fairly inexperienced workers to be able to make the dough using practices that can be followed at all of Buddy's locations as a standardized procedure. In a home setting where you are only making a few pizzas, you can get away with much higher hydrations but in a commercial setting like Buddy's the bulk dough has to be easy to divide, scale and pan without sticking to everything. 



Peter,

I do recall the article you cited for the very high hydration dough and how it was mixed just with the flat beater.  I also recall from my Pizzarium experiments that doughs of high hydration if properly kneaded can be handled without a lot of sticking to fingers.

I agree that the hydration value for Buddyís dough is set at a value to allow fairly inexperienced workers to be able to work with their dough. 



Another thing you will note from the above article is that the amount of yeast cited is over 1% (about 1.2% if IDY is used). At that value, the dough is essentially an emergency dough, just like Buddy's. You will also note the lack of oil or sugar in the dough described in the article. However, salt is used, at 2.8%.

Peter

I didnít notice the yeast amount in the article you reference for the very high hydration dough, but I did notice the higher amount of salt, and the lack of oil and sugar.

I saw the how Buddyís clone dough mixed well in the Hobart last week.  Will see how well it mixes without salt on Monday.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline deb415611

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1404
  • Location: CT
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1252 on: January 19, 2013, 09:30:11 AM »
those look great Norma.   I need to spend some time reading through this thread
Deb

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1253 on: January 19, 2013, 09:40:26 AM »
those look great Norma.   I need to spend some time reading through this thread

Deb,

Thank you!  These Buddy's clone pizzas are fairly easy to make as long as you have a steel pan.  If you look though this thread, you can see some of these Buddy's clone pizzas have been made in a matter of hours, just like other emergency dough pizzas.  Buddy's does basically made emergency dough pizzas.  For an emergency dough pizza, I would say it really can't be told that they are emergency dough pizzas.  It is the combination of the tastes of the cheese or cheese blend, the caramelized edges, the crispy bottom and the light crumb that makes them so good.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 386
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1254 on: January 19, 2013, 04:23:53 PM »
Norma,

You might recall that I cited an article for a very high hydration dough at https://sites.google.com/site/hollosyt/quickrusticciabattapizza.

Peter

Peter,

Any idea what kind of yeast the recipe to which you linked uses?  (The recipe doesn't say.)  If I want to use IDY, is 1 tsp okay or should I reduce the amount?  1 tsp of IDY seems a lot, even for a "quick rise" dough, for only 250 g of flour.

Thanks.

Gene

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23193
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1255 on: January 19, 2013, 04:39:08 PM »
Any idea what kind of yeast the recipe to which you linked uses?  (The recipe doesn't say.)  If I want to use IDY, is 1 tsp okay or should I reduce the amount?  1 tsp of IDY seems a lot, even for a "quick rise" dough, for only 250 g of flour.
Gene,

Since the yeast is mixed in with the rest of the ingredients, I would guess it is IDY. ADY normally requires prehydrating in part of the formula water at a temperature of around 105 degrees F for about ten minutes, whereupon it can be combined with either the rest of the formula water (at its normal temperature) or the rest of the ingredients. If you have IDY, I would go with that. 1.2% IDY is a lot of yeast but it would not be out of line for an emergency dough intended to be made and used in about two hours.

It would be interesting to see if the recipe can be used to make a Buddy's clone without collapsing from the weight of everything put onto the dough. By my calculation, the recipe makes around 17 ounces of dough. About 9 to 10 ounces would be enough to make a 4-square Buddy's clone.

Peter
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 04:49:57 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 386
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1256 on: January 19, 2013, 05:27:06 PM »
Gene,

Since the yeast is mixed in with the rest of the ingredients, I would guess it is IDY. ADY normally requires prehydrating in part of the formula water at a temperature of around 105 degrees F for about ten minutes, whereupon it can be combined with either the rest of the formula water (at its normal temperature) or the rest of the ingredients. If you have IDY, I would go with that. 1.2% IDY is a lot of yeast but it would not be out of line for an emergency dough intended to be made and used in about two hours.

It would be interesting to see if the recipe can be used to make a Buddy's clone without collapsing from the weight of everything put onto the dough. By my calculation, the recipe makes around 17 ounces of dough. About 9 to 10 ounces would be enough to make a 4-square Buddy's clone.

Peter

I'm definitely planning to try it.  If I can remember, I'll report back on how it works out.

Gene

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1257 on: January 21, 2013, 06:59:44 PM »
Sorry, that all of my pictures are all over the place in sizes, but I am using my daughters old camera until I get my new one which should be Wednesday.  It seems every time I change cameras the pictures have to be resized differently on paint.

I sure donít know, but I think the Buddyís clone dough might be mixed enough without salt in the dough. 

The Buddyís clone dough without salt was first mixed on speed 1-2-3-3-3 in the first video.



In the second video the speeds were 3-3.




I then took the dough out of the mixer bowl and placed it on the marble slab and was going to start dividing it, but decided to put it back into the mixer and mix more.  I took the final dough temperature before I put the dough back into the mixer bowl.  The final dough temperature then was 74.1 degrees F.  In the third video the dough was mixed on speeds 3-3 again.



I think it can be seen how the dough after mixing for awhile wanted to then gather on the flat beater.  That is either when I changed speeds, or pulled a some dough off the flat beater and started mixing again.  I think it can also be seen when speeds are changed it throws the dough off some of from the flat beater.

The dough balls were scaled to the same weights as last week.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1258 on: January 21, 2013, 07:02:49 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12473
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1259 on: January 21, 2013, 09:10:12 PM »
I could use one of those Mountain Dews and.....oh yeah, 2 of these to go please..... ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1260 on: January 21, 2013, 09:53:04 PM »
I could use one of those Mountain Dews and.....oh yeah, 2 of these to go please..... ;D

Bob,

You could easily make one of these kinds of pies yourself.  They are a lot easier than some other kinds of pizzas.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12473
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1261 on: January 21, 2013, 10:22:56 PM »
Bob,

You could easily make one of these kinds of pies yourself.  They are a lot easier than some other kinds of pizzas.

Norma
You are very kind Norma, it's no secret though...you have a knack for turning out really great stuff when you put your mind to it. I know I will give this awesome style a go soon. Hope you have a fun day at the Market tomorrow sweetie.  :) Thanks for your encouragement!  8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Ev

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1826
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Lancaster Co. Pa.
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1262 on: January 21, 2013, 10:29:56 PM »
Hey Sweetie, I mean Norma. I'll bring the basil and chicken marinade along tomorrow.  :-*

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12473
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1263 on: January 21, 2013, 10:32:52 PM »
Hey Sweetie, I mean Norma. I'll bring the basil and chicken marinade along tomorrow.  :-*
That's right bucko...better check yoself!   :-D

Jeez, I get zero respect 'round here...can't even talk nice nice to my 'lil girlio ever now an then ya know?!  8)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 10:36:55 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Ev

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1826
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Lancaster Co. Pa.
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1264 on: January 22, 2013, 08:33:50 AM »
It's all good Bob. I mean Sweetie. :-D

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12473
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1265 on: January 22, 2013, 11:56:05 AM »
 :-D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1266 on: January 22, 2013, 09:07:20 PM »
Craig,

These are the times and temperatures for the bakes of the Buddyís clone pizzas today.  The temperatures ranged from 514-532 degrees F, when measuring the temperature on the top deck of the BakerĎs Pride oven different times today.

The times it took for baking the Buddyís clones pizzas I timed were.

15 minutes 48 seconds
15 minutes 25 seconds
15 minutes 44 seconds
15 minutes 32 seconds

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1267 on: January 22, 2013, 09:13:44 PM »
The Buddyís clone dough balls without salt worked out well today.  They were gassier than last week in that the dough balls were gassier when they were pressed out in the steel pans and the doughs also tempered faster in the Hatco Unit.  I can be seen in the second dough in the steel pan that it tempered more than last week in less amount of time.  I guess since no salt was added to the dough that is why the dough balls were gassier and tempered faster.

These are the pictures from the first two Buddyís clone pizzas made this morning.

I didnít mind there was no salt in the crust because of all the other flavors of the baked dressings, caramelized edges and crispy bottom crust, but Steve can comment on what he thought.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1268 on: January 22, 2013, 09:15:25 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1269 on: January 22, 2013, 09:17:42 PM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15424
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1270 on: January 22, 2013, 09:19:46 PM »
Thank you Norma!
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1271 on: January 22, 2013, 09:57:30 PM »
Thank you Norma!

Craig,

Anytime.  I don't know if you recalled when I posted a couple minutes more in the oven at market doesn't make that much difference in how they baked.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Ev

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1826
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Lancaster Co. Pa.
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1272 on: January 22, 2013, 10:21:04 PM »
I really missed the salt in the dough. Norma said it's all in my mind because I knew there was no salt, but I don't think so. Sure, there was lots of salt flavor in all the cheese and toppings, but when getting to the meat of the crust, there was definite blandness. Still really good pizza though.

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 386
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1273 on: January 23, 2013, 01:09:18 AM »
Craig,

These are the times and temperatures for the bakes of the Buddyís clone pizzas today

Norma

Norma,

What kind of flour are you using?

Gene

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23824
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1274 on: January 23, 2013, 07:47:50 AM »
Norma,

What kind of flour are you using?

Gene


Gene,

I posted the picture of the 50 lb. bag of Occident bromated flour I am using at Reply 1083 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg230850.html#msg230850  I also posted a picture at Reply 359 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg223989.html#msg223989 that I purchased a 25 lb. bag of Occident bromated flour. 

I purchased the Occident flour after Buddyís told me the protein of their flour was 12.2% at Reply 105 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220791.html#msg220791  I asked for clarification about that protein number after Peter suggested what I should ask and reported on what Buddyís said at Reply 111  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220815.html#msg220815

Peter then told me what flour had a protein of 12.2%.  Peter Reply was at 112 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg220819.html#msg220819

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!