Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 133842 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1380 on: February 05, 2013, 09:36:32 PM »
I guess I was fairly lucky today.  I was fairly busy trying to wait on customers and also trying to make some Buddy's clone pizzas with some dough balls fermenting in the Hatco Unit.  My inspector came visiting to inspect my small pizza stand (you never know when they will come around and my inspection isn't due until the end of March).  I did get one violation from not having the buckets that we keep dish clothes in to wipe up things in that the solution wasn't strong enough.  Everything else passed the inspection today.  It is hard to have a inspector going over everything and trying to wait on customers.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1381 on: February 06, 2013, 08:30:41 AM »
These are pictures of some of the other Buddyís clone pizzas made yesterday and a couple of pictures of the doughs in the steel pans.  I was asked yesterday to make an all veggie Detroit style pizza (which I did) and tried two 3 meat pizzas with all the meats under the cheese and many veggies on top of the cheese.  This dough seems to support many dressings and the dough does still rise when baked.  The sauce is always put on before the bake.  I also was sent a text on my cell phone the night before market day and asked if I would make a 4-square cheese Buddyís pizza for 7:15 PM last evening for a couple that comes later.  I did save a dough and made the couple a 4-square cheese pizza.  I do season all of the steel pans at the end of the night.  The dough made for a one-day cold ferment with 0.80% IDY lasts all day long to make the Buddyís clone pizzas, which makes me happy that only one dough batch has to be made.  Thanks Peter for suggesting for me to try a one-day cold ferment with 0.80% IDY. I wouldnít have been able to figure all of this out without your help.

Norma 
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1382 on: February 06, 2013, 08:32:19 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1383 on: February 06, 2013, 08:33:40 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1384 on: February 06, 2013, 08:35:03 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1385 on: February 06, 2013, 08:37:25 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Serpentelli

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1131
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1386 on: February 06, 2013, 09:28:53 AM »
Norma,

Those are beautiful pies. Making me hungry and there's three hour til lunch!

John

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21728
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1387 on: February 06, 2013, 10:08:53 AM »
The dough made for a one-day cold ferment with 0.80% IDY lasts all day long to make the Buddyís clone pizzas, which makes me happy that only one dough batch has to be made.  Thanks Peter for suggesting for me to try a one-day cold ferment with 0.80% IDY. I wouldnít have been able to figure all of this out without your help.

Norma,

Thanks for the kudos but you are a natural who would have eventually have figured out how much yeast to use. Remember, also, that my goal has always been different than yours. In my case, and with your help, I was trying to reverse engineer and clone Buddy's dough. That's it. You were, of course, also interested in that objective, but more importantly you were also trying to come up with a pizza that you could sell. And it looks like you are succeeding very nicely in that regard and that your pizzas are having great appeal to your customer base, both in terms of beauty (visual appeal) and the many now well known gustatory qualities of the pizzas. Your Detroit style pizzas have been getting better and better as time has gone on, and I think they now rank right up there with the best that Buddy's and the other legendary Detroit style pizza operators produce. Your latest photos say it all. Maybe we need to get Guy Fieri to do a DDD on your operation. Or at least get Slice to write up your place.

With respect to the Buddy's clone dough that you made with 0.50% IDY, I have no explanation as to why it performed as it did. Maybe you will have to do a test sometime where the dough is made at market with your Hobart mixer rather than at home. But I will say that 0.50% IDY worked to put your dough in a "sweet" spot in terms of the degree of fermentation and expansion. The poppy seed spacing that you showed in Reply 1379 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg235932.html#msg235932 suggests a rise of about 2.6 times, or about mid-way between a doubling and a tripling. That is very good positioning in my opinion, and should give you better control over the management of the dough once it comes out of your deli case. If you are able to get 0.50% IDY to work at market, then that could become your go-to value to use should you again find a need, for any reason, to make a two-day cold fermented clone dough.

Peter


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1388 on: February 06, 2013, 10:09:41 AM »
Norma,

Those are beautiful pies. Making me hungry and there's three hour til lunch!

John

John,

Thank you for your kind post!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1389 on: February 06, 2013, 10:42:53 AM »
Norma,

Thanks for the kudos but you are a natural who would have eventually have figured out how much yeast to use. Remember, also, that my goal has always been different than yours. In my case, and with your help, I was trying to reverse engineer and clone Buddy's dough. That's it. You were, of course, also interested in that objective, but more importantly you were also trying to come up with a pizza that you could sell. And it looks like you are succeeding very nicely in that regard and that your pizzas are having great appeal to your customer base, both in terms of beauty (visual appeal) and the many now well known gustatory qualities of the pizzas. Your Detroit style pizzas have been getting better and better as time has gone on, and I think they now rank right up there with the best that Buddy's and the other legendary Detroit style pizza operators produce. Your latest photos say it all. Maybe we need to get Guy Fieri to do a DDD on your operation. Or at least get Slice to write up your place.

With respect to the Buddy's clone dough that you made with 0.50% IDY, I have no explanation as to why it performed as it did. Maybe you will have to do a test sometime where the dough is made at market with your Hobart mixer rather than at home. But I will say that 0.50% IDY worked to put your dough in a "sweet" spot in terms of the degree of fermentation and expansion. The poppy seed spacing that you showed in Reply 1379 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg235932.html#msg235932 suggests a rise of about 2.6 times, or about mid-way between a doubling and a tripling. That is very good positioning in my opinion, and should give you better control over the management of the dough once it comes out of your deli case. If you are able to get 0.50% IDY to work at market, then that could become your go-to value to use should you again find a need, for any reason, to make a two-day cold fermented clone dough.

Peter




Peter,

I donít know if I would have been able to figure out how much yeast to use with a one-day cold ferment.  I also donít think I would have tried a rest period like I have in the last two weeks for the dough to become stronger and less sticky, unless you would have told me to try that.  That rest period seems to also make the dough stronger. 

I know your goal has always been different than mine.  I was of course interested in understanding and helping to clone and reverse engineer a Buddyís clone pizza.  I am going to try a Buddyís clone dough with a higher hydration and if you want me to try anything else just let me know.  I have learned a lot in the last few months.  I never thought I will be offering a Detroit style pizza at market when I started this thread.  Some of my friends (stand holders and people that work for Rootís)  said they thought all my experimenting with different pizzas finally paid-off in now they think the Detroit style pizza is the best pizza I offer.  It still remains to be seen how more customers will like these Detroit style pizzas.

I appreciate your kind words that my Detroit style pizzas are getting better looking and you think they rank right up there with the best that BuddyĎs and other legendary Detroit style pizza operators produce.  Lol, I would be too nervous to have Guy Fieri at my small pizza stand.  All I want is to be able to have decent Detroit style pizzas to offer potential customers.  I donít know if you saw Adam Kubanís link to my Detroit style pizzas on Slice, but I had to laugh when he posted Would someone just give Norma Detroit citizenship, already! I know Adam does look at my blog, but I never mentioned to him about my Detroit style pizzas.  That post just closed for reasons I wonít mention.   http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/01/20130127-twip.html

Thanks for telling me how much the expansion was of the poppy seed spacing and you think that the 0.50% IDY value would work for a 2-day cold ferment.  If our weather gets ugly again on a Monday I should have a chance to try 0.50% IDY because Jim the one manager at market told me he would shut the alarms off for me if I find a need again to make my doughs on a Sunday if there is bad weather on a Monday.  I also wonder if maybe not enough cheese is on those spots that get those hills and valleys.  I sure donít know if that might cause those hills and valleys, but am curious about that.  Since I am not weighing out the cheeses it makes me wonder if that could cause what is happening a couple of times.

I still have the new tomato product and the extra Buddyís sauce to test.  I would have done that this week, but never got around to doing that.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21728
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1390 on: February 06, 2013, 12:54:04 PM »
I donít know if you saw Adam Kubanís link to my Detroit style pizzas on Slice, but I had to laugh when he posted Would someone just give Norma Detroit citizenship, already! I know Adam does look at my blog, but I never mentioned to him about my Detroit style pizzas.

Norma,

No, I did not see Adam's link to your Detroit style pizzas. I usually do not look at Slice but only because I have enough to keep me busy at our forum. Also, I get plenty enough saturated with the subject of pizza here on this forum without having to torture myself more by looking at other websites that also deal with pizza. Also, when I am working on a particular project, such as the one on this thread, I try to remain completely focused on the task at hand and not get distracted by outside influences. Also, as you know, I am not a big fan of multi-tasking. I tried this recently, somewhat to my regret. You might find my recent episode at multi-tasking amusing.

Out of curiosity, I decided recently to revisit the Home Run Inn (HRI) thread, which dates back to 2007-2008. I wanted to see if I would be better today at reverse engineering and cloning HRI's dough and pizzas than back in 2007/2008, when I knew much less about how to reverse engineer and clone pizzas. As I was analyzing things anew, I found myself confusing HRI with Buddy's. There were just so many similarities. As you know, Buddy's started making pizzas in 1946. HRI started making pizzas in 1947. The founders of Buddy's and HRI were all Italians. Both Buddy's and HRI have only a handful of stores--nine each (although HRI also has a large frozen pizza business). The dough recipes of Buddy's and HRI are both simple. Buddy's dough recipe has only flour, water, yeast and maybe salt. HRI's dough recipe has flour, water, corn oil, yeast and salt. Gus Guerra at Buddy's came up with the dough recipe with his mother-in-law, and Nick Perrino at HRI came up with the HRI dough recipe with his mother-in-law. Both companies are routinely written up by the media, and their pizzas appear with regularity on lists of the best pizzas in the country. Yelp and other reviewers speak fondly of both companies and their pizzas, and Google Images is replete with photos of the pizzas of both companies. To confuse matters even worse, the CEOs of both companies, Robert Jacobs of Buddy's and Joe Perrino at HRI, both wear glasses and both are follicly-challenged (see the Jacobs photo at http://www.theoaklandpress.com/content/articles/2012/04/10/news/doc4f849d4486f32530686279.jpg and the Perrino photo at http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2010-01/51917074.jpg).

So, if something I write on this thread does not make sense, it may be because I didn't listen to myself when I strayed away from my practice of not multi-tasking.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 01:32:34 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1391 on: February 06, 2013, 02:40:15 PM »
Norma,

No, I did not see Adam's link to your Detroit style pizzas. I usually do not look at Slice but only because I have enough to keep me busy at our forum. Also, I get plenty enough saturated with the subject of pizza here on this forum without having to torture myself more by looking at other websites that also deal with pizza. Also, when I am working on a particular project, such as the one on this thread, I try to remain completely focused on the task at hand and not get distracted by outside influences. Also, as you know, I am not a big fan of multi-tasking. I tried this recently, somewhat to my regret. You might find my recent episode at multi-tasking amusing.

Out of curiosity, I decided recently to revisit the Home Run Inn (HRI) thread, which dates back to 2007-2008. I wanted to see if I would be better today at reverse engineering and cloning HRI's dough and pizzas than back in 2007/2008, when I knew much less about how to reverse engineer and clone pizzas. As I was analyzing things anew, I found myself confusing HRI with Buddy's. There were just so many similarities. As you know, Buddy's started making pizzas in 1946. HRI started making pizzas in 1947. The founders of Buddy's and HRI were all Italians. Both Buddy's and HRI have only a handful of stores--nine each (although HRI also has a large frozen pizza business). The dough recipes of Buddy's and HRI are both simple. Buddy's dough recipe has only flour, water, yeast and maybe salt. HRI's dough recipe has flour, water, corn oil, yeast and salt. Gus Guerra at Buddy's came up with the dough recipe with his mother-in-law, and Nick Perrino at HRI came up with the HRI dough recipe with his mother-in-law. Both companies are routinely written up by the media, and their pizzas appear with regularity on lists of the best pizzas in the country. Yelp and other reviewers speak fondly of both companies and their pizzas, and Google Images is replete with photos of the pizzas of both companies. To confuse matters even worse, the CEOs of both companies, Robert Jacobs of Buddy's and Joe Perrino at HRI, both wear glasses and both are follicly-challenged (see the Jacobs photo at http://www.theoaklandpress.com/content/articles/2012/04/10/news/doc4f849d4486f32530686279.jpg and the Perrino photo at http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2010-01/51917074.jpg).

So, if something I write on this thread does not make sense, it may be because I didn't listen to myself when I strayed away from my practice of not multi-tasking.

Peter


Peter,

I can understand that you get plenty enough saturated with the subject of pizza here on this forum that you donít need to torture yourself more by looking at the other websites that deal with pizza.  I didnít know that when you are working on a particular project such as this thread, you try to remain completely focused on the task at hand and not get distracted by outside influences.  I also didnít know you werenít a fan of multi-tasking.  I think you know me by now and know I try to multi-task, sometimes with not the best results. 

I did find your episode of multi-tasking amusing.  :-D I sure didnít know anything about Home Run Inn pizza, except what I have read here on the forum and just look at those posts and donít get myself overly involved in them, but I can understand you would be interested in analyzing things anew about HRI.  Thanks for telling me the similarities between Buddyís and HRI.  I enjoyed hearing them.  I also think Robert Jacobs of Buddyís and Joe Perrino at HRI do look eerily similar at least to my eyes.  I am also follicly-challenged, but only for looking at something that is really small.  At first I just put on the glasses to read small stuff, but now wear the glasses all the time because I am too lazy to take them off and put them back on.   

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1392 on: February 06, 2013, 02:42:44 PM »
Peter,

I saw this on Buddyís facebook page today.  This is what Buddyís Pizza posted.  Welcome to the Cooking Channelís Pizza Guys who are filming our pies today.  Stay tuned for details.  There were a few posts about when it would air and Buddyís Pizza posted that it looks like May or June-but weíll keep you posted.  This is the photo Buddyís Pizza posted. 

I wonder what that will be about and if it might give any more clues to Buddyís Pizza.  Someone just posted and asked what store they were filming, but Buddyís Pizza didnít answer yet.

Get your TV ready early, who knows if we will find out anything or not.  :-\ Are you going to watch that TV show?

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21728
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1393 on: February 06, 2013, 02:51:02 PM »
I am also follicly-challenged, but only for looking at something that is really small.  At first I just put on the glasses to read small stuff, but now wear the glasses all the time because I am too lazy to take them off and put them back on.   
Norma,

LOL. You are not follicly challenged. That is a euphemism for baldness.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11725
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1394 on: February 06, 2013, 02:52:19 PM »
I've never even heard of the Cooking Channel. I guess I don't get it. Hopefully the episode will be available on their website.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1395 on: February 06, 2013, 03:04:28 PM »
Norma,

LOL. You are not follicly challenged. That is a euphemism for baldness.

Peter

Peter,

 :-D

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1396 on: February 06, 2013, 03:06:45 PM »
I've never even heard of the Cooking Channel. I guess I don't get it. Hopefully the episode will be available on their website.


Craig,

I am not sure if Buddy's Pizza means the Food Network or not.  I might post on Buddy's facebook page and ask them.  Stay tuned if you are interested. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11725
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1397 on: February 06, 2013, 03:12:34 PM »

Craig,

I am not sure if Buddy's Pizza means the Food Network or not.  I might post on Buddy's facebook page and ask them.  Stay tuned if you are interested. 

Norma

I looked it up, and there is a Cooking Channel. It seems to be somehow related to the Food Network.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21238
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1398 on: February 06, 2013, 03:19:46 PM »
I looked it up, and there is a Cooking Channel. It seems to be somehow related to the Food Network.

Craig,

I just called Buddy's pizza and talked to Tracy at the Livonia Buddy's location.  She told me that the Food Network has been filming at Buddy's for the last couple of weeks for the show.  I asked who is going to be the host for that show and Tracy said she wasn't sure. I would love to see the uncut version of that show.   >:D

Norma

« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 03:21:29 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11725
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1399 on: February 06, 2013, 03:54:36 PM »
Craig,

I just called Buddy's pizza and talked to Tracy at the Livonia Buddy's location.  She told me that the Food Network has been filming at Buddy's for the last couple of weeks for the show.  I asked who is going to be the host for that show and Tracy said she wasn't sure. I would love to see the uncut version of that show.   >:D

Norma



Me too.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


 

pizzapan