Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!

[gschwim]

Me too.

I would anticipate that after the segment airs, it the Cooking Channel and/or Buddy's would put a link to it on their Web site.  The Cooking Channel might also upload it to Youtube.

Gene

[TXCraig1]

I would anticipate that after the segment airs, it the Cooking Channel and/or Buddy's would put a link to it on their Web site.  The Cooking Channel might also upload it to Youtube.

Gene

We were referring to the raw footage not the edited version.

[norma427]

This is what Buddy’s Pizza posted on facebook a few hours ago if anyone doesn’t have facebook.  Buddy's Pizza: Our original location at 6 Mile and Conant was featured and yes, the Detroit-style pizza went over well as far as we can tell!  I wonder if anyone that lives in Detroit could watch the filming of what is going to be on the Food Network at Buddy’s Pizza. I also wonder if a lot of the filming went on before Buddy’s pizza opened late in the morning. 

Norma

[gschwim]

We were referring to the raw footage not the edited version.

I understood about the raw footage; however, someone seemed not to have heard of the Cooking Channel and in any case, someone might not manage to view the (edited) Buddy's episode when it airs.  So I was just saying, don't worry if you miss it when it airs, someone probably will post it on Youtube, Buddy's Web site or the Cooking Channel Web site.  I plan to watch it on Youtube, myself.

Gene

[norma427]

Yesterday, Buddy’s Pizza shared a link on facebook and said this "Well thanks Nymag and Grub Street for including us in this fine list of fantastic pizza pies!" http://newyork.grubstreet.com/2013/02/the-best-pizza-in-america.html?mid=grubstreet--20130204#photo=63x00017  I don’t think I ever recalled Buddy’s Pizza saying that Buddy’s often twice bakes the pie in a sunken pan to maximize the caramelized crunch on its deep crust.  Is that something new from Buddy’s?  Maybe I am missing something that I should be doing.  I think I am confused now as what to do.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

I'm not sure I even understand the description of the Buddy's pizza. If Buddy's is using conveyor ovens, it is rather unlikely that they will be using a double bake. They might pull a pizza at the end of the conveyor oven and push it back into the oven to extend the bake time for another minute or two and maybe get a bit more caramelization as a result, but I am not even sure how often they would do that. I wouldn't want to hang my hat on the description you referenced. Most often, a double bake is along the lines used by Klausie's, with a deck oven.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

I'm not sure I even understand the description of the Buddy's pizza. If Buddy's is using conveyor ovens, it is rather unlikely that they will be using a double bake. They might pull a pizza at the end of the conveyor oven and push it back into the oven to extend the bake time for another minute or two and maybe get a bit more caramelization as a result, but I am not even sure how often they would do that. I wouldn't want to hang my hat on the description you referenced. Most often, a double bake is along the lines used by Klausie's, with a deck oven.

Peter

Peter,

I thought what would be the use of doing a double bake at Buddy‘s if they are using a conveyor oven.  To me it would seem like too much time would be wasted if they are busy.  I wouldn’t want to rely on what Buddy’s referenced either, but found it interesting that Buddy’s did reference to that link.  Maybe Buddy’s is just trying to throw people off if they might want to clone their pizzas.  I know Klausie’s does do a double bake.

I recall at Reply 318 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg136795.html#msg136795 you posted in your reply that “lufty” reported that he personally liked a Buddy’s pizza a little more done (for which it was shoved back into the conveyor oven for 2, or maybe 3 more minutes).

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Is it possible for you to go back to Facebook and ask if the Grub Street description is actually accurate and, if so, how would one do a double bake in a conveyor oven and when would a customer want a double bake?

It was the lufty experience that I had in mind in my last post.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Is it possible for you to go back to Facebook and ask if the Grub Street description is actually accurate and, if so, how would one do a double bake in a conveyor oven and when would a customer want a double bake?

It was the lufty experience that I had in mind in my last post.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, I can go back on Facebook and ask the questions you posed.  I will see if Buddy's answers my post.

Norma

[norma427]

I did post on Buddy’s wall last evening and asked the questions that Peter and I would like to know about the double bake if that is really accurate, how a double bake is done and why a customer would want a double baked pizza.  So far Buddy’s Pizza hasn’t answered me.

I also decided to go though the pictures on Buddy’s photo albums.  I never went though all of their pictures before on facebook.  I didn’t find a lot on the photo albums, but did find some interesting things, at least in my opinion.

First picture is from Buddy's Halloween Party this year and the next few picture are from when Buddy's Pizza was at the Henry Ford-America's Greatest History attraction in 2012.  I see Buddy’s has something like my Hatco Unit for keeping food warm.  The next picture is when Buddy's Pizza was at Soundboard @ Motor City.  I find it interesting how Buddy's just kept their pizzas hot with heat lamps.  I wonder how the edges and bottom stay crisp by just using a heat lamp.  Under the picture of the ladies taken a long while ago KatyJo Tourtois posted this.  “omg, thats me as a kid on the right ,u can see my eyes nose n hair, this is when my uncle n godfather owened it big jim n little jim. also my father is louis tourtois the original cook that made the blue ribbon you guys are riding on all these years. not the original pizza as when my dad n uncle james valenti where there!!! all these waitress.s where like family to us specially aunt Texie second on right in back row. I MISS THESE OLD DAYS, NEVER BE THE SAME!!!”.  Linda Kalinowski-Corbett also commented on that same picture this. omg I remember the 3 ladies on the right. I loved Big Jimmie and his wife. They were so kind to me. Their Christmas patrties were legendary.and their summer cottage. Your mom was so beautiful and sweet.  Of course your dad was the best too.  I see KatyJo Tourtois posted that her dad was the original cook that made the blue ribbon Buddy’s is riding on all these years.  KatyJo Tourtois posting also made me wonder what was so different with the pizzas years ago.  I also wonder what Katy Jo meant about not being the original pizza as when her dad and Uncle Jeames Valenti were there.  There are little pizza makers at Buddy's Pizza too.  These are a few of those picture from Buddy's wall. It looks like Buddy's steel pans also have cake-like on stuff and some of the steel pan aren't exactly were the sides are kind of scuffed. These are also two pictures of what Buddy's dough must look like. It doesn't really look that high in hydration to me.  Those pictures were posted February 2012 and the children were from the Brewster Elementary School.  There were a lot more pictures of the children making Buddy's pizzas.  I think those children look so cute making Buddy’s pizzas in the pictures.  I think this is when Buddy's pizza posted get ready for our new Buddy's Pizza Boxes posted August 2011. The one BadAss Buddy's pizza was taken when they introduced the pizza from the BADASS American Larger Beer from the Fresh 100.3 Kid Rock Booth.  Really I don't know, but these pictures of Buddy's pizza don't look that high in height to me.  They look something like Via 313 pizzas at least in my opinion.

There are lots of other pictures on Buddy’s Pizza facebook page.

Any thoughts about what I posted or the pictures?

Norma

Edit: Sorry I am not posting all the pictures.  I am having too many problems with shortcuts on some of the photo.  If anyone wants me to post the rest of the pictures I will have to work on where they are in my computer.  Also now the timeline I gave for the pictures above is wrong.

[norma427]

Sorry, I am messing up trying to post these pictures, but for some of them are too big for the forum to be able to post.  I am trying to resize them, but in the process I am changing the numbers of the photos and then I have to find them at another place on my computer instead of where my regular pictures are stored.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

I copied a few more pictures and will see if I can post them.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[Ev]

Norma, In some of those pictures, the pizza looks quite a bit thinner than yours.

[norma427]

Norma, In some of those pictures, the pizza looks quite a bit thinner than yours.

Steve,

I also thought the same thing.  I wonder how consistent Buddy's is with their dough balls, or if the tempering period affects what the final height of their baked pizzas will be.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

With the passage of time, things change. The ingredients needed and available to make the pizzas change, the suppliers and pricing change, the equipment used to make the pizzas changes, management personnel changes, and workers who make the dough and pizzas come and go. The laws and regulations that govern the business change. And the economy can change, for the better or worse. But, throughout all this, the basic dough recipe can be the same. In theory, you might be able to replicate a pizza of years ago, for example, such as was made by Buddy's when they used deck ovens, but that pizza will not be the same as one made after they went to conveyor ovens, both infrared and air impingement conveyor ovens. We also should consider that workers don't always do things "by the book". They improvise where necessary, they make mid-course corrections, and I am sure that sometimes they are indifferent and just "wing it". I think that is why pizzas rarely look alike, even in the same store.

In your case, your objective should be to make the best pizza possible that you can sell at market at a reasonable profit, and do it consistently. The Buddy's clone dough that you are now using, with a one-day cold fermentation, is already different than the dough that Buddy's uses, which is the emergency dough. It may also well be that you are using a higher hydration than Buddy's uses, and maybe that is responsible for the taller crusts that your pizzas have. If so, you are essentially selling customers more air, which can create the appearance of greater substance. I could be wrong on this but given a choice between a thin, more dense crust and a thicker, more airy crust, I would think that on balance your customers would prefer the thicker, more airy crust.

Maybe one day we will find out what weight of dough balls Buddy's uses for its pizzas and the hydration value for those dough balls, and maybe even how they make their dough, but that shouldn't change what you are trying to do. Each of the old timers, and even many of the current players, who started out with essentially the same dough recipe went on to place their own creative signature marks on their pizzas to differentiate them from their competitors. I suspect that you will end up doing the same.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

With the passage of time, things change. The ingredients needed and available to make the pizzas change, the equipment used to make the pizzas changes, management personnel changes, and workers who make the dough and pizzas come and go. The laws and regulations that govern the business change. And the economy can change, for the better or worse. But, throughout all this, the basic dough recipe can be the same. In theory, you might be able to replicate a pizza of years ago, for example, such as was made by Buddy's when they used deck ovens, but that pizza will not be the same as one made after they went to conveyor ovens, both infrared and air impingement conveyor ovens. We also should consider that workers don't always do things "by the book". They improvise where necessary, they make mid-course corrections, and I am sure that sometimes they are indifferent and just "wing it". I think that is why pizzas rarely look alike, even in the same store.

In your case, your objective should be to make the best pizza possible that you can sell at market at a reasonable profit, and do it consistently. The Buddy's clone dough that you are now using, with a one-day cold fermentation, is already different than the dough that Buddy's uses, which is the emergency dough. It may also well be that you are using a higher hydration than Buddy's uses, and maybe that is responsible for the taller crusts that your pizzas have. If so, you are essentially selling customers more air, which can create the appearance of greater substance. I could be wrong on this but given a choice between a thin, more dense crust and a thicker, more airy crust, I would think that on balance your customers would prefer the thicker, more airy crust.

Maybe one day we will find out what weight of dough balls Buddy's uses for its pizzas and the hydration value for those dough balls, and maybe even how they make their dough, but that shouldn't change what you are trying to do. Each of the old timers, and even many of the current players, who started out with essentially the same dough recipe went on to place their own creative signature marks on their pizzas to differentiate them from their competitors. I suspect that you will end up doing the same.

Peter

Peter,

I appreciate your thoughts.  I know with the passage of time things do change with personal, not doing things by the book, management etc.  I also know my pizzas I make in my deck oven won’t be exactly the same as Buddy’s pizzas even if we knew the right dough ball weights and hydration.  

My objective is to make the best Buddy’s clone pizzas that I can produce.  I know my Buddy’s clone formulation is already different in that it is a one-day cold ferment instead of an emergency dough and I am using salt in my dough, when you don’t think Buddy’s is, or if they do use salt it might be a small amount.

Norma