Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 145931 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1460 on: February 13, 2013, 08:12:17 AM »
Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22002
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1461 on: February 13, 2013, 10:07:02 AM »
Norma,

I have several thoughts and comments to offer this morning.

First, all of your recent Detroit style clone pizzas using the dough balls with the 75% hydration value turned out very well judging from the photos. However, you indicated to Gene in a recent post that you do not intend to use the 75% hydration in future efforts. Also, you and Steve seemed to be pleased with the results using the higher hydration. Do you think that you will go back to the lower hydration value as you told Gene or will you try the 75% hydration value again, even if only for test purposes? Either way, I think we established that subjecting the dough to a good knead and giving it a rest before finishing (our version of "double kneading") works quite well even at high hydration values. None of this is to suggest that Buddy's uses a very high hydration value, but it does tell us that high hydration values are not an insurmountable problem in a commercial setting, even when the dough preparation function is delegated to relatively unskilled workers. FYI, the spacing of the poppy seeds that you showed in one of your recent posts suggests an increase in the volume of the dough of over 300 percent, or more than a tripling.

Second, on the matter of the use of sugar in a Detroit style dough, there is nothing particularly magical about such use. However, it is possible that sugar in the dough helps with color development for a crust that is based on an "emergency" dough where there has been insufficient time for natural sugars to be released from the flour to contribute to crust color development. In that case, the crust color contribution would be through caramelization rather than through Maillard reactions. In your case, with an overnight fermentation, you perhaps end up with enough residual sugars, along with the effects of the oil in the pan to "fry" the crust, to have good final crust coloration.

Third, for your information, Shawn Randazzo is a member of our forum. He has never posted (even an introductory post) and he has spent little time on the forum. I happened to see him online a while back (maybe within the past two months) but he left shortly thereafter.

Fourth, on the matter of whether Buddy's does or does not use salt in its dough does not really matter at this point. However, I will add that often nutritional information is incorrect or inaccurate, and there is very little that anyone, even the FDA, can do about it. For example, about a year or two ago, the GAO (Government Accountability Office) looked at the Nutrition Facts for several packaged products and found that 24% of them were incorrect or inaccurate. Of course, as you know from the analysis of the Nutrition Facts that we conducted for the Pepe's frozen dough, errors do occur. Also, a few years ago I informed Home Run Inn of an error in their Nutrition Facts, which they later corrected.

To add to the above, there is also a so-called 20% rule that allows the information given in Nutrition Facts for packaged goods sold at retail to be off by as much as 20% in either direction. Regrettably, the FDA does not have the resources to investigate Nutrition Facts, even those questionable cases brought to its attention, and not life threatening or patently false or misleading, to ensure accuracy or correctness of Nutrition Facts. So, food preparers police their own activities. I should also mention that pizza operators--such as Buddy's, or Jet's, or Mellow Mushroom, or Papa Gino's, or even Domino's--usually do not produce "Nutrition Facts" as such. Rather, they provide the same type of nutrition information as is contained in Nutrition Facts, using the same methodology, but label their nutrition information as "Nutrition" or "Nutrition Guide", and the like. Out of curiosity, I applied the 20% rule to the Buddy's Sodium numbers for a slice of one of their square pizzas, and found that increasing the amount of Sodium by 20% is tantamount to adding a bit over 1/8 teaspoon of salt to four slices of a Buddy's cheese pizza. That is only about 0.05% salt. Of course, no matter what errors or incorrect information may reside in Buddy's nutrition information, it is all moot if there is no one to enforce any errors or incorrect numbers.

Peter

 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 05:20:27 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22002
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1462 on: February 13, 2013, 10:20:52 AM »
Norma,

I meant in my last post to note the similarity of the crumb structure of one of your recent pizzas as shown in the second photo of Reply 1451 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg237113.html#msg237113 to the crumb structure of a Buddy's pizza as shown in the second photo of Reply 98 over at the Buddy's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg73872.html#msg73872. From the photos below, I will leave to others to guess which is Norma's pizza and which is Buddy's pizza.

Also, you might be interested in knowing that the Buddy's thread just recently went over the 100,000 page view mark. That is a major milestone.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 01:59:26 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1463 on: February 13, 2013, 01:54:47 PM »
Norma,

I have several thoughts and comments to offer this morning.

First, all of your recent Detroit style clone pizzas using the dough balls with the 75% hydration value turned out very well judging from the photos. However, you indicated to Gene in a recent post that you do not intend to use the 75% hydration in future efforts. Also, you and Steve seemed to be pleased with the results using the higher hydration. Do you think that you will go back to the lower hydration value as you told Gene or will you try the 75% hydration value again, even if only for test purposes? Either way, I think we established that subjecting the dough to a good knead and giving it a rest before finishing (our version of "double kneading") works quite well even at high hydration values. None of this is to suggest that Buddy's uses a very high hydration value, but it does tell us that high hydration values are not an insurmountable problem in a commercial setting, even when the dough preparation function is delegated to relatively unskilled workers. FYI, the spacing of the poppy seeds that you showed in one of your recent posts suggests an increase in the volume of the dough of over 300 percent, or more than a tripling.

Second, on the matter of the use of sugar in a Detroit style dough, there is nothing particularly magical about such use. However, it is possible that sugar in the dough helps with color development for a crust that is based on an "emergency" dough where there has been insufficient time for natural sugars to be released from the flour to contribute to crust color development. In that case, the crust color contribution would be through caramelization rather than through Maillard reactions. In your case, with an overnight fermentation, you perhaps end up with enough residual sugars, along with the effects of the oil in the pan to "fry" the crust, to have good final crust coloration.

Third, for your information, Shawn Randazzo is a member of our forum. He has never posted (even an introductory post) and he has spent little time on the forum. I happened to see him online a while back (maybe within the past two months) but he left shortly thereafter.

Fourth, on the matter of whether Buddy's does or does not use salt in its dough does not really matter at this point. However, I will add that often nutritional information is incorrect or inaccurate, and there is very little that anyone, even the FDA, can do about it. For example, about a year or two ago, the GAO (Government Accountability Office) looked at the Nutrition Facts for several packaged products and found that 24% of them were incorrect or inaccurate. Of course, as you know from the analysis of the Nutrition Facts that we conducted for the Pepe's frozen dough, errors do occur. Also, a few years ago I informed Home Run Inn of an error in their Nutrition Facts, which they later corrected.

To add to the above, there is also a so-called 20% rule that allows the information given in Nutrition Facts for packaged goods sold at retail to be off by as much as 20% in either direction. Regrettably, the FDA does not have the resources to investigate Nutrition Facts, even those questionable cases brought to its attention, and not life threatening or patently false or misleading, to ensure accuracy or correctness of Nutrition Facts. So, food preparers police their own activities. I should also mention that pizza operators--such as Buddy's, or Jet's, or Mellow Mushroom or even Domino's--usually do not produce "Nutrition Facts" as such. Rather, they provide the same type of nutrition information as is contained in Nutrition Facts, using the same methodology, but label their nutrition information as "Nutrition" or "Nutrition Guide", and the like. Out of curiosity, I applied the 20% rule to the Buddy's Sodium numbers for a slice of one of their square pizzas, and found that increasing the amount of Sodium by 20% is tantamount to adding a bit over 1/8 teaspoon of salt to four slices of a Buddy's cheese pizza. That is only about 0.05% salt. Of course, no matter what errors or incorrect information may reside in Buddy's nutrition information, it is all moot if there is no one to enforce any errors or incorrect numbers.

Peter

 

Peter,

Thanks for your thoughts and comments!

 1.  When I replied to Gene I really didnít know if I wanted to try more doughs with 75% hydration until I tried it first to see what would happen.  I really am now undecided if I want to try a higher hydration for market, but think I might after the discussion with Steve yesterday in us both thinking the crumb was even more tender than my other attempts.  I said to Steve I shouldnít have really tried this experiment with a higher hydration because I had some thoughts that I might like the crumb better.  I also then knew if I did like the crumb better that would lead me to do more experiments.  I probably will only make a few dough balls to try out first though.  I am unsure of how the tempered dough will hold more toppings and if they might somehow change the bake.   I agree that we also established that subjecting the dough to a good knead and then giving it a rest before finished (our version of ďdouble kneadingĒ) works quite well even at high hydration values.  I know I wouldnít have thought of trying that myself in the first place.  If I try a couple or a few doughs balls next week with 75% hydration do you think I should decrease the IDY percent a little?  The 75% hydration dough I tried wasnít in the evening, so with what you told me that the dough increased in volume by 300 percent, or a little more than tripling, maybe the yeast might need decreased a little.  Then when I think about it again that dough was made in the morning instead of the afternoon so I am confused on what I should try.

2.  Thanks for explaining that there is nothing particularly magical about sugar in a Detroit style dough and explaining it might be possible in an ďemergencyĒ dough it might be needed to give better crust coloration.

3.  I didnít know before you posted today that Shawn Randazzo is a member of this forum. 

4.  I agree it doesnít really matter if Buddyís is using salt or not in their dough.  There are a lot of regulations concerning nutritional information.  I can understand why different Nutrition Facts can be wrong.  I recall the Pepeís clone dough and you and Craig finding that Nutrition information wrong.  At least they did correct it.  I had to chuckle when you posted that you informed Home Run Inn of an error in their Nutrition Facts.  Only you or Craig would be able to understand how to find out that stuff. 

Interesting that when you applied the 20% rule to Buddyís Sodium numbers for a slice of one of their square pizzas that it only amounted to 0.05% salt.  That is very little salt in a formulation. 

Norma   
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1464 on: February 13, 2013, 02:02:06 PM »
Norma,

I meant in my last post to note the similarity of the crumb structure of one of your recent pizzas as shown in the second photo of Reply 1451 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg237113.html#msg237113 to the crumb structure of a Buddy's pizza as shown in the second photo of Reply 98 over at the Buddy's thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.msg73872.html#msg73872. From the photos below, I will leave to others to guess which is Norma's pizza and which is Buddy's pizza.

Also, you might be interested in knowing that the Buddy's thread just recently went over the 100,000 page view mark. That is a major milestone.

Peter


Peter,

Thank you for noting the similarity of the crumb structure of the 75% hydration pizza to the post at the Buddyís thread of PizzaHogís.   

I agree that that is a major milestone for the Buddyís thread.  8) Thanks for mentioning that. 

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1465 on: February 13, 2013, 02:15:52 PM »
Norma,

Really great looking DS pies!  Seems like your "double knead" method with the 75% hydration dough helps the more delicate crust stand up to the toppings and rise correctly.

Cheers,
Britt

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22002
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1466 on: February 13, 2013, 03:01:29 PM »
Norma,

If I try a couple or a few doughs balls next week with 75% hydration do you think I should decrease the IDY percent a little?  The 75% hydration dough I tried wasnít in the evening, so with what you told me that the dough increased in volume by 300 percent, or a little more than tripling, maybe the yeast might need decreased a little.
Since a higher hydration dough will ferment faster than a lower hydration dough, it might be worth reducing the amount of yeast so that the finished dough stays pretty much in the doubling-tripling range. You might try using 0.70% IDY to start.

I can understand why different Nutrition Facts can be wrong.  I recall the Pepeís clone dough and you and Craig finding that Nutrition information wrong.  At least they did correct it.  I had to chuckle when you posted that you informed Home Run Inn of an error in their Nutrition Facts.  Only you or Craig would be able to understand how to find out that stuff. 
As it so happens, today I had a conversation with a customer service rep at the Home Run Inn frozen pizza operation during which I told the rep that I believe that there may be a major error in their Nutrition Facts for several of their frozen pizzas that I could not account for based on the ingredients they say they use to make their pizzas and the related Nutrition Facts. She noted what I told her and said that she would refer the matter to the proper function within HRI. Although the discrepancy that I believe I found does not affect anything that I want to do, I asked that she get back with me to either confirm or deny my suspicions. I am not holding my breath that I hear back from them. But I would like to know because that might tell me whether I am properly interpreting the HRI Nutrition Facts.

In Buddy's case, I believe that the nutrition issue may be complicated by the fact that there are two sizes of slices for their pizzas, maybe even three if takeout slices are taken into account. It is hard to know for sure without having weights for the different sizes. I am also suspicious of the Buddy's Total Fat and Sat Fat numbers if they are using the Foremost Farms brick cheese. It may be that they are using less cheese than they have told us they are using, or maybe they are underreporting the fat numbers while staying within the 20% rule, or maybe a combination of both.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22002
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1467 on: February 13, 2013, 03:10:32 PM »
Really great looking DS pies!  Seems like your "double knead" method with the 75% hydration dough helps the more delicate crust stand up to the toppings and rise
Britt,

I think that Norma's goal is to keep increasing the hydration of the dough to the point where the crust has the consistency and lightness of cotton candy (with which Norma already has expertise) and is mainly air, carbon dioxide, water and a trace of flour :-D. The profit margins for that combination are bound to be much better than what Buddy's gets. As of the moment, about 42% of the weight of one of Norma's clone dough balls is water.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 03:14:25 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10425
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1468 on: February 13, 2013, 03:49:33 PM »
The profit margins for that combination are bound to be much better than what Buddy's gets. As of the moment, about 42% of the weight of one of Norma's clone dough balls is water.

Peter
That Norma...she's a crafty one for sure!  8)

Maybe you should pull the 'ol cotton candy machine out of storage an see if you could spin you up a nice tasty dough Norma... ;D
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 03:51:59 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1469 on: February 13, 2013, 04:26:15 PM »
I think that Norma's goal is to keep increasing the hydration of the dough to the point where the crust has the consistency and lightness of cotton candy (with which Norma already has expertise) and is mainly air, carbon dioxide, water and a trace of flour :-D.
"Cotton candy" is a pretty good descriptor of the character of this dough when you play within the 70-75% hydration zone and do a 48-hr cold ferment - it's so light and airy when you bite through the crispy crust.   Here's last night's dinner (70%, 0.35% IDY):


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1470 on: February 13, 2013, 05:13:34 PM »
Norma,

Really great looking DS pies!  Seems like your "double knead" method with the 75% hydration dough helps the more delicate crust stand up to the toppings and rise correctly.

Cheers,
Britt

Britt,

Thanks!   I think the "double knead" with intensive mixing both times does help make the 75% hydration dough stronger.  I guess it would be something like doing stretch and folds on making a dough less sticky and building strength in the dough.  It is to be seen though just how many toppings can be applied when using 75% hydration.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1471 on: February 13, 2013, 05:32:18 PM »
Norma,
Since a higher hydration dough will ferment faster than a lower hydration dough, it might be worth reducing the amount of yeast so that the finished dough stays pretty much in the doubling-tripling range. You might try using 0.70% IDY to start.
As it so happens, today I had a conversation with a customer service rep at the Home Run Inn frozen pizza operation during which I told the rep that I believe that there may be a major error in their Nutrition Facts for several of their frozen pizzas that I could not account for based on the ingredients they say they use to make their pizzas and the related Nutrition Facts. She noted what I told her and said that she would refer the matter to the proper function within HRI. Although the discrepancy that I believe I found does not affect anything that I want to do, I asked that she get back with me to either confirm or deny my suspicions. I am not holding my breath that I hear back from them. But I would like to know because that might tell me whether I am properly interpreting the HRI Nutrition Facts.

In Buddy's case, I believe that the nutrition issue may be complicated by the fact that there are two sizes of slices for their pizzas, maybe even three if takeout slices are taken into account. It is hard to know for sure without having weights for the different sizes. I am also suspicious of the Buddy's Total Fat and Sat Fat numbers if they are using the Foremost Farms brick cheese. It may be that they are using less cheese than they have told us they are using, or maybe they are underreporting the fat numbers while staying within the 20% rule, or maybe a combination of both.

Peter



Peter,

I know that a high hydration dough will ferment faster than a lower hydration dough.  I will try your recommended amount of 0.70% IDY to start for a few dough balls. 

I find it interesting and amusing that you had a conversation with a customer service rep at the Home Run Inn frozen pizza operation today during which you told the rep that you believe that there may be a major error in their Nutrition Facts for several of their frozen pizzas.  I hope the proper function within HRI gets back to you.  Also if you need anyone to test or experiment (a guinea pig) with an Home Run Inn pizza I am always available. 

I can understand the nutrition issue may be more complicated at Buddyís if they use two slices, or even three, if takeout slices are taken into account.  Interesting that you are also suspicious of the Buddyís Total Fat and Sat Fat numbers if they are using the Foremost Farms brick cheese.  They might be using less cheese than they reported, or maybe they might be underreporting the fat numbers while staying within the 20% rule.  It also could be both.  That stuff would drive me batty.  :-D

I donít know if you will find this video interesting, but I did.  It is about íCalorie Detectiveí in the NY Times recently and has to do with calories in different foods and some about Nutrition Facts. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/opinion/calorie-detective.html?_r=0   No wonder almost no one can understand all of this stuff.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1472 on: February 13, 2013, 05:38:19 PM »
Britt,

I think that Norma's goal is to keep increasing the hydration of the dough to the point where the crust has the consistency and lightness of cotton candy (with which Norma already has expertise) and is mainly air, carbon dioxide, water and a trace of flour :-D. The profit margins for that combination are bound to be much better than what Buddy's gets. As of the moment, about 42% of the weight of one of Norma's clone dough balls is water.

Peter

Peter,

No, my goal is not to increase the hydration above 75% hydration.  I thought I was done doing most of the experiments in this thread, but this 75% hydration just takes me back into doing more experiments.  It would be interesting for me to try a cotton candy pizza though.

Norma  
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 06:31:50 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1473 on: February 13, 2013, 05:40:16 PM »
That Norma...she's a crafty one for sure!  8)

Maybe you should pull the 'ol cotton candy machine out of storage an see if you could spin you up a nice tasty dough Norma... ;D

Bob,

I did own 4 cotton candy machines at a former time in my life.  I wish I would have kept one, but I didn't.  It sure would be fun to experiment with a cotton candy machine.  I wouldn't experiment with water in a cotton candy machine though.  I just got shocked today while trying to clean my refrigerator cord and that thing is grounded.  Figure that out.  :-D

Norma
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 05:42:08 PM by norma427 »
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10425
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1474 on: February 13, 2013, 05:40:51 PM »
Peter,

  Also if you need anyone to test or experiment (a guinea pig) with an Home Run Inn pizza I am always available. 



Norma
Now that could definitely get interesting.....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1475 on: February 13, 2013, 05:46:22 PM »
"Cotton candy" is a pretty good descriptor of the character of this dough when you play within the 70-75% hydration zone and do a 48-hr cold ferment - it's so light and airy when you bite through the crispy crust.   Here's last night's dinner (70%, 0.35% IDY):


Britt,

Your crumb almost does look like cotton candy.  Your slice crumb shot looks delicious!  ;D  It is interesting that you do a 48-hour cold ferment.  What formulation do you use for a Buddy's clone pizza?  Does a 48-hour cold ferment give you any better flavor in the crumb?

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1476 on: February 13, 2013, 05:47:49 PM »
Now that could definitely get interesting.....

Bob,

Since I never tasted a Home Run Pizza I am not sure if I am the best person to get involved in doing that.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Skee

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 147
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1477 on: February 13, 2013, 06:12:15 PM »
Your crumb almost does look like cotton candy.  Your slice crumb shot looks delicious!  ;D  It is interesting that you do a 48-hour cold ferment.  What formulation do you use for a Buddy's clone pizza?  Does a 48-hour cold ferment give you any better flavor in the crumb?
Thanks!  The 48-hr ferment does add some character to the crust, making it more delicate and a bit tastier.  The dough is 70% hydration, KASL, 0.35% IDY, 1.5% sea salt.  A one-minute mix with the paddle on speed 1 (Kitchen Aide), a five-minute rest, then a one-minute knead with the dough hook on speed 2. 

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21838
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1478 on: February 13, 2013, 06:35:38 PM »
Thanks!  The 48-hr ferment does add some character to the crust, making it more delicate and a bit tastier.  The dough is 70% hydration, KASL, 0.35% IDY, 1.5% sea salt.  A one-minute mix with the paddle on speed 1 (Kitchen Aide), a five-minute rest, then a one-minute knead with the dough hook on speed 2. 

Britt,

Thanks for telling me the 48-hour cold ferment does add some character to the crust.  Thanks also for giving your formulation, methods for mixing and what flour you use.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22002
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1479 on: February 15, 2013, 03:11:37 PM »
Norma,

I thought that you would be interested in this recent PMQ Think Tank thread in which a member asked about how to handle a bulk mass of high hydration (75%) dough: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13987&sid=7fa34750be0dedc6c7d41c12e4717d4e/. I saw the member's post before Tom Lehmann addressed it but wondered how I would have answered it, or how you might have answered it. I came to the conclusion, as Tom did, that it would be difficult to bulk ferment a 75% hydration dough and be able to do the division and scaling the next day into individual dough balls the next day, even though cold and more amenable to handing than a freshly made dough. It would be a fairly messy and sticky job. At least in your case, wiith the use of rest periods and double kneading, the job is manageable.

I also wondered whether the poster was a member of this forum also and possibly became enamored of high-hydration pan style doughs based on what members have done on this forum. As it turns out, he is a member of this forum but his last appearance was back in 2008.

Peter


 

pizzapan