Two Bill’s pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!

[norma427]

Norma,

What temperatures/times for baking have you been most successful with for your formulation(s)?  Are you using a regular oven or a deck oven?  Gas or electric?

I have a regular oven at home and can only get up to 500 degrees.  I'm thinking middle rack 500 degrees?  15-20 minutes?

Would a Sicilian-style such as yours benefit from a pizza stone pre-heated in the oven and the pizza pan set on top? Or would it be better to have the heat circulating all around while it's on a rack?

Thx!

Qarl,

At Reply 1203 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg232238.html#msg232238  Steve used the dough I gave him in his convection home oven and baked at 525 degrees F. 

If you want to see a Buddy’s clone in my home oven there is one at Reply 906 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21559.msg229345.html#msg229345  If you go down though the posts you can see how I baked the pizza in my home oven.  My home oven was only about 500 degrees F.  It was baked on a pizza stone on the second to the bottom rack.  The stone was preheated, but not as long as for NY style pizzas.  I have an electric oven at home and it is very old.  It only gets up to about 500 degrees F.  You can see the bake time on the link above, but different times I baked Buddy’s clone at home there was different bake times.  You just need to take something and see if the edges pull away from the sides to see if the bottom is finished.  That is what I did the first few times I baked in my home oven.  After a couple of pies are made, you should be able to judge when they are baked enough.  Don’t go exactly by my bake times, because your oven might bake different than mine.  You can see Steve has success in his convection oven and my Buddy’s clone was just bake in an oven without the convection feature.

I also baked other Buddy’s clone pizzas in my home oven nearer the beginning of this thread.  If you want me to find those links I can.

At market my deck oven is propane and I do bake directly on the deck.

Norma

[Qarl]

Perfect info.  You're the best!

 

[norma427]

Qarl,

Good luck!    I opened and shut my home oven door a lot after the crust rose enough to see when it was finished different times and didn't seem to do anything to the finished pizza.  I also do that at market.

Norma

[redox]

Jay,

I think you are a fast learner when it comes to making pizza.  If you stay on this forum long enough you should be able to make any kind of pizza you want. 

This forum and the great members sure have helped me.  If you would have seen my first pizzas you would laugh.  I wasn’t a fast learner in the beginning.

Norma

The truth is that I've been married so long that I've gotten very good at following instructions. 

[gschwim]

You just need to take something and see if the edges pull away from the sides to see if the bottom is finished.

Norma

Norma,

I may finally have solved it, but I was having a big problem with the cheese sticking to the sides of the pan.  Are you saying that with your pan, the cheese actually pulls away from the sides while the pie is baking?

Gene

[norma427]

The truth is that I've been married so long that I've gotten very good at following instructions. 

Jay,

 

Norma

[norma427]

Norma,

I may finally have solved it, but I was having a big problem with the cheese sticking to the sides of the pan.  Are you saying that with your pan, the cheese actually pulls away from the sides while the pie is baking?

Gene

Gene,

No, I don't think the cheese actually pulls away from the sides while it is baking.  Once in awhile I still have some sticking issues on the sides of the pans.

Norma

[norma427]

The first photo is the formulation I used today.  I don’t know where my brain was when I put the IDY number in the expanded dough calculation tool, but I put 0.80% IDY instead of what I wanted to use.  Hopefully everything turns out okay tomorrow.  My final dough temperature was a little higher today too.  It was 68 degrees inside market, so it is hard sometimes to know what temperature water to use.

2nd and 3rd photos are when the Hobart mixer was kneading on speed 2 for the first mix.  I think it can be seen how the flat beater throws the dough to the sides of the mixer bowl on speed 2.  It can been seen on the 4th photo the dough was still sticky after the mix.  I then gave the dough a rest period of 20 minutes and it can be seen in the 5th and 6th pictures how the dough when my fingers left it didn’t want to stick.  The 7th picture is of the second knead.  The 8th picture is when I was pulling the flat beater out of the dough.  I think it shows how strong the dough is.  The 9th picture is when the dough was on the bench before it was divided.  It looks kind of sticky, but really wasn’t hard to divide.  The 10th picture is when some of the dough balls were divided and some were balled.  The 11th picture is the scale and dough cutter I used to divide the dough.  It shows that there isn’t much of any dough on the scaled or the dough cutter.  The 12th picture is of one dough ball with the poppy seeds on.

I really don’t know what hydration Buddy’s dough is, but I wouldn’t see any problems in trying to show someone how easy this dough is to mix, cut, divide and then also ball at 75% hydration.  It does take longer than a regular dough in mixing and with the rest period.  It also takes time to grease the steel pans.

Norma 

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

Sometime you should make a standard size dough batch using your Hobart mixer at market to determine the friction factor for your mixer for that dough batch size. With that number, you can then calculate the water temperature needed to achieve a particular finished dough temperature for similar future dough batch sizes based on the ambient temperature, the temperature of the flour (which is likely to be the same as the ambient temperature if it is stored at ambient temperature), and the friction factor. If you'd like, I can refer you to an article by Tom Lehmann on this subject. I've cited it before on several occasions, so you may already be aware of it. The math is simple.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

Sometime you should make a standard size dough batch using your Hobart mixer at market to determine the friction factor for your mixer for that dough batch size. With that number, you can then calculate the water temperature needed to achieve a particular finished dough temperature for similar future dough batch sizes based on the ambient temperature, the temperature of the flour (which is likely to be the same as the ambient temperature if it is stored at ambient temperature), and the friction factor. If you'd like, I can refer you to an article by Tom Lehmann on this subject. I've cited it before on several occasions, so you may already be aware of it. The math is simple.

Peter

Peter,

I recall you citing the article from Tom Lehmann before, but does the friction factor also apply if I am kneading on a different speed than my normal NY style dough, then giving a rest period and then another knead?  I would think that friction factor would be different for the higher mix speed, but sure don’t know.  I would like to be able to calculate what water temperature to use so my final dough temperatures would be consistent.  When I was at market Friday the temperature was only 42 degrees F.  That temperature was a lot different than from today.  The water was even warmer today, so the temperature must have been upped earlier today.  I know the flour and water temperature will be about the same as the room ambient temperature.  You can reference Tom Lehmann’s article if you want.  I can try to study the article and also see if I can do the math.

I usually start mixing on speed one, but today forgot and started on speed two.  The mixer bowl got messy from doing that.

Norma

[Pete-zza]

Norma,

That is a good question. However, I think you should be able to use the method described by Tom Lehmann in the article I mentioned provided that you use the same mixer speeds and mixing/kneading times and if the rest period is the same. What usually happens during the rest period is that the temperature of the dough will approach the ambient temperature. That will result in a higher or lower finished dough temperature than what you would normally achieve if you did not use a rest period, but so long as you do things the same way for every like dough batch, I think you should be able to use the method discussed in the Lehmann article.

Tom's article is at http://www.pmq.com/Spring-2003/In-Lehmanns-Terms/. Note that any major changes in the type of dough, or dough batch size, or preparation methods requires calculation of a new friction factor number. This is usually not a big problem for most pizza operators since they typically make only one type of dough and in one quantity the same way day in and day out. In your case with more than one type of dough, you may have to calculate and use more than one friction factor.

Peter

[norma427]

Norma,

That is a good question. However, I think you should be able to use the method described by Tom Lehmann in the article I mentioned provided that you use the same mixer speeds and mixing/kneading times and if the rest period is the same. What usually happens during the rest period is that the temperature of the dough will approach the ambient temperature. That will result in a higher or lower finished dough temperature than what you would normally achieve if you did not use a rest period, but so long as you do things the same way for every like dough batch, I think you should be able to use the method discussed in the Lehmann article.

Tom's article is at http://www.pmq.com/Spring-2003/In-Lehmanns-Terms/. Note that any major changes in the type of dough, or dough batch size, or preparation methods requires calculation of a new friction factor number. This is usually not a big problem for most pizza operators since they typically make only one type of dough and in one quantity the same way day in and day out. In your case with more than one type of dough, you may have to calculate and use more than one friction factor.

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for referencing the article from Tom Lehmann.  I will have to study it over a little.  I do different sizes of dough batches and now different styles of doughs.  That should be interesting for me to try and figure everything out.   

Norma

[norma427]

All the Buddy’s clone dough balls worked out well all day today, even though I used more IDY than I wanted to and also had a higher final dough temperature.

I tried a new Sicilian sausage that my one favorite butcher carries today.  The sausage links were roasted in the oven.  The sausage had a great taste when it was used on the one pizza today.  That pizza also had Feta cheese and Gouda cheese mixed with the other cheeses.  

The first two pizzas were the first ones baked this morning and the last cheese pizza was the last one baked today.

I like 75% hydration better than the hydration I was using.  I thought there might be some problems using 75% hydration, but today there weren’t any problems.

Norma

[norma427]

I forgot to post in my last post, but the man and woman came back today that had purchased the 3 Detroit style pizzas for Super Bowl and then froze them.  They said the pizzas turned out great and they did fully defrost them before they baked them again.  I was glad it worked out for them.  They really like the Detroit style pizzas and said they told their friends about them.

Another man was at the stand today that lives where they make Victory Pig style pizzas.

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[norma427]

Norma

[TXCraig1]

Perfect.

[norma427]

Perfect.

Craig,

Thanks so much for your kind comment!

Norma