Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 241995 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1725 on: April 03, 2013, 01:34:01 PM »
These are just a few more photos of some of the Detroit style pizzas made yesterday.  The first two photos of the cheese and pepperoni pizza there is a hole in the one end on the top side.  I donít know what caused the hole, but inside the hole the baked gluten strands could be seen. 

Norma


Offline Serpentelli

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1170
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
    • Bat Man vs. The Penguin
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1726 on: April 03, 2013, 02:47:16 PM »
Norma,

Those LOOK delicious, but I gotta ask:

Are those delicious looking pies certified authentic DS pies?? :-D :-D :-D

Keep making those cheesy dream pillows!

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline hurkleburkle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1727 on: April 03, 2013, 03:42:06 PM »
been following this thread for a while, this is my attempt at Detroit style pizzas.

Offline redox

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1051
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1728 on: April 03, 2013, 03:43:21 PM »
Norma,

Those pies look outstanding! One look at the pics and all I want to do is yell, "Get in my belly!"

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12514
  • Location: Durham,NC
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1729 on: April 03, 2013, 04:19:54 PM »

Keep making those cheesy dream pillows!

John K
I'll bet the late great Bob Ross would have loved to try and do a painting of one of Norma's pie's.  :)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1730 on: April 03, 2013, 07:40:18 PM »
Norma,

Those LOOK delicious, but I gotta ask:

Are those delicious looking pies certified authentic DS pies?? :-D :-D :-D

Keep making those cheesy dream pillows!

John K

John,

Nope, those pies are not ďcertified authenticĒ, because of the ouch factor of trying to become certified.  3,000.00 dollars is a big ouch factor.   :o  :-D

Norma

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1731 on: April 03, 2013, 07:41:49 PM »
been following this thread for a while, this is my attempt at Detroit style pizzas.

hurkleburkle,

Your Detroit style pizza looks very delicious!  The question is how did you like it?

Norma

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1732 on: April 03, 2013, 07:43:38 PM »
I'll bet the late great Bob Ross would have loved to try and do a painting of one of Norma's pie's.  :)

Bob,

That was kind of you to post!  8)

Norma

Offline hurkleburkle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1733 on: April 03, 2013, 08:09:52 PM »
hurkleburkle,

Your Detroit style pizza looks very delicious!  The question is how did you like it?

Norma
It was awesome.  I ended up making a 2nd one this evening and eating it also.  So full I can hardly walk now.


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23444
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1734 on: April 03, 2013, 08:32:02 PM »
hurkleburkle,

I agree that your pizza looks delicious. Since there have been many versions of the Buddy's clone pizza on this forum, can you tell us the dough formulation you used and how you prepared and managed the dough?

Peter

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1735 on: April 03, 2013, 08:43:26 PM »
It was awesome.  I ended up making a 2nd one this evening and eating it also.  So full I can hardly walk now.

hurkleburkle,

I am glad you thought your Detroit style pizza was awesome and ended up making a 2nd Detroit style pizza this evening and eating it too.  ;D  If you ate the whole Detroit style pizza I can understand how full you must be now. Your statement about being so full you can hardly walk now had me chuckling.

The crumb part is very light, but it still can be very filling.  I have some customers that just come for one slice each week and they say one slice fills them.

Norma

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1736 on: April 03, 2013, 10:02:33 PM »
I made more dough for the Detroit style pizzas this week and had one skin in a large pan that wasnít tempered yesterday, or used, so I brought it home.  I was going to make another regular Detroit style pizza, but had enough of another kind of pizza yesterday.  I decided to try Craigsís Detroit style pizza with butter, sugar and cinnamon again this evening.  Craigís method really mades a good dessert Detroit style pizza.  The crumb just melted in my mouth and was so soft. 

I might try some of Craigís butter, cinnamon and sugar Detroit style pizzas at market this coming week to see if customers are interested in them.  I have a bigger steel pan I can use, but will have to see how much dough should be used in that pan.  I think just wrapping cut squares in plastic wrap when the pizza cools down would work okay.

Some of the photos were taken with the picture option and the photo was just taken regularly.  The steel pan was none the worse for wear of making Craigís Detroit pizza.

Lol, that picture mode sure shows up the dirt in my oven.  Time to clean the oven.   :-D

Norma

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1737 on: April 03, 2013, 10:04:29 PM »
Norma

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15988
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1738 on: April 03, 2013, 11:40:08 PM »
Everyone I've fed that pie to loves it!
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline hurkleburkle

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 8
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1739 on: April 04, 2013, 01:46:42 AM »
hurkleburkle,

I agree that your pizza looks delicious. Since there have been many versions of the Buddy's clone pizza on this forum, can you tell us the dough formulation you used and how you prepared and managed the dough?

Peter

The dough is 100% medium protein bromated flour
75% water
3% olive oil
2% salt
.6% IDY

Mix just until fully mixed then ball it as much as possible, coat it in some oil and put it into a food bag.
 I then let it sit in the fridge over night before sheeting into the pan for 2 hours prior to cooking.

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1740 on: April 04, 2013, 07:30:03 AM »
Everyone I've fed that pie to loves it!

Craig,


That's good to hear.  If your style (with butter, cinnamon and sugar) of Detroit pizza sell at market do you have a name you want me to call them?  I have to see if they work out okay in my bigger steel pan and also in my oven at market first.  I don't know if the butter might make the bottom crust turn too brown or not.

Norma

Offline Serpentelli

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1170
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
    • Bat Man vs. The Penguin
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1741 on: April 04, 2013, 09:01:06 AM »
been following this thread for a while, this is my attempt at Detroit style pizzas.

Hurkle,

Pretty good first attempt.

Next time try not having so much delicious, perfectly caramelized cheese on the edges.

And if you wouldn't mind covering up those deliciously applied toppings which are peeking ever so slightly from beneath the beatiful red sauce just a wee bit more, I think we'd all agree that you are very close to pizza nirvana.

Kudos!!!

John K :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
I'm not wearing hockey pads!


Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1742 on: April 05, 2013, 12:09:36 AM »
Another article about Pizza entrepreneurs dishing up Detroit-style pizzas.

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2043279

There is a close-up photo of a square slice displayed by Shawn Randazzo at the top of the article.

Norma

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1743 on: April 05, 2013, 12:17:03 AM »
Another

Brown Dogís Detroit-Style Pizza Takes the Gold in Vegas.

http://watchnewspapers.com/view/full_story/22154527/article-Brown-Dog%E2%80%99s-Detroit-Style-Pizza-Takes-the-Gold-in-Vegas?instance=search_results 

It looks like Jeff did use a blend of cheeses, including Wisconsin white cheddar on his award winning Detroit style pizza.

Norma
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 12:20:24 AM by norma427 »

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 386
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1744 on: April 06, 2013, 12:58:01 AM »
Norma,

You might want to start your own certification program and organization. You can call it AVPD, or Associazone Verace Pizza Detroita. Or maybe Vera Pizza Detroita Michigana. Those names will command big fees.

BTW, Buddy's apparently would not be able to be certified by Shawn because they use conveyor ovens, not the required deck ovens. I would imagine that Buddy's is very disappointed.

Peter

Who wants to "convey" the news to Buddy's?

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 386
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1745 on: April 06, 2013, 01:00:25 AM »
Norma,

Those LOOK delicious, but I gotta ask:

Are those delicious looking pies certified authentic DS pies?? :-D :-D :-D

Keep making those cheesy dream pillows!

John K

They've got the Norma Seal of Approval.

Online norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24194
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
  • Always working and looking for new information!
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1746 on: April 06, 2013, 07:41:24 AM »
Who wants to "convey" the news to Buddy's?

Gene,

Do you really think really Buddy's cares?   :-D

They've got the Norma Seal of Approval.

Not all of my Detroit style of pizzas bake exactly like I want them to.  You can see the hole on top of the one pizza I posted.  I am still learning about Detroit-style of pizzas too.

Norma

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15988
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1747 on: April 06, 2013, 10:16:17 AM »
If your style (with butter, cinnamon and sugar) of Detroit pizza sell at market do you have a name you want me to call them? 

How about the "What's not to love pizza" or the "Snickerdoodle pizza?"
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline gschwim

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 386
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1748 on: April 06, 2013, 10:45:56 AM »
Gene,

Do you really think really Buddy's cares?   :-D

Not all of my Detroit style of pizzas bake exactly like I want them to.  You can see the hole on top of the one pizza I posted.  I am still learning about Detroit-style of pizzas too.

Norma

Norma,

I'm guessing that you just had an air pocket that filled with steam and expanded when you baked the pie.  One sees the same thing in the crusts of NY pizzas from time to time.  Sometimes the bubbles will expand in from the rim and displace some of the cheese and sauce.

As for the "Detroit Style Certification":  kudos to Shawn (or whomever) for coming up with a clever (and if it works, lucrative) way to make a buck, but he should just offer classes.  The Keste folks offer a course in Italian-style wood fired pizza making in NJ that costs even more than $3,000 (I don't remember the exact number.

And he can offer certification for his personal method, but a certification in the "Detroit style" seems a bit of a conceit.  Not that it's a bad idea, but a committee of recognized experts in the style - Shawn, plus, say, folks from Buddy's, Shield's, Cloverleaf, etc., should get together, discuss, decide, vote, and agree on a common Detroit style.  In which case, I suspect that Buddy's would not go along with the requirement that the pies be baked in a deck oven.

And isn't interesting - amazing coincidence, I'm sure - that a guy who is a major, if not the major, source of the blue steel pans is making using these pans a requirement for the certification?

In my opinion, the style should be defined by the pie itself, not how it is baked:  Light, airy crust, crispy bottom, cheese out to the sides and caramelized, pepperoni under the cheese, sauce on top (and the sauce can be put on at any stage in the process, since different, equally authentic bakers do it different ways.

And as the VPN specifications for "true" Neopolitan pizza do, the specifications must contain at least one very specific recipe, to include all ingredients, the exact proportions and the entire process from mixing the dough to baking the pie, including baking temperature.  There must be specifications for the sauce, too, and there needs to be agreement on the cheese.  And only a certain amount of variation, if any, should be allowed.  So maybe a committee would be better, if Shawn want to keep his recipe secret, but his recipe, and everyone else's as well, need to be reasonably close to the published specifications or they, themselves, cannot be "certified."

And which, I suspect, could make a true certification regime impossible.  The recipe for VPN Italian pizza is a common recipe, hundreds of years old, and pretty much public knowledge.  But the DS style guys seem to want to keep their recipes - dough, sauce and cheese - proprietary.

So, probably the best one can do is, "baked in a pan, cheese out to the sides and caramelized."  If one wants to pay $3,000 for that, fine.  But I think it would be much better for Shawn to offer certification in the "Shawn Randazzo method."  And for $3,000, it better be the precise recipe and method that he uses himself - that's what I would expect for $3,000.

Gene

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 23444
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1749 on: April 06, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »
And he can offer certification for his personal method, but a certification in the "Detroit style" seems a bit of a conceit.  Not that it's a bad idea, but a committee of recognized experts in the style - Shawn, plus, say, folks from Buddy's, Shield's, Cloverleaf, etc., should get together, discuss, decide, vote, and agree on a common Detroit style.  In which case, I suspect that Buddy's would not go along with the requirement that the pies be baked in a deck oven.

Gene,

Actually, the certification document reads as follows regarding the ovens:

Deck Oven Baking: Authentic Detroit Style Pizza must be baked in a deck oven or other approved oven.

If conveyor ovens would be approved, then the two types of ovens would cover pretty much the entire range of ovens in use. Maybe the remaining oven types would be wood- or coal-fired or gas-assisted ovens. I am not sure that commercial owners of such ovens would want to run them at the lower temperatures used for the Detroit style pizza.

Peter