Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 144429 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1740 on: April 04, 2013, 07:30:03 AM »
Everyone I've fed that pie to loves it!

Craig,


That's good to hear.  If your style (with butter, cinnamon and sugar) of Detroit pizza sell at market do you have a name you want me to call them?  I have to see if they work out okay in my bigger steel pan and also in my oven at market first.  I don't know if the butter might make the bottom crust turn too brown or not.

Norma
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Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1741 on: April 04, 2013, 09:01:06 AM »
been following this thread for a while, this is my attempt at Detroit style pizzas.

Hurkle,

Pretty good first attempt.

Next time try not having so much delicious, perfectly caramelized cheese on the edges.

And if you wouldn't mind covering up those deliciously applied toppings which are peeking ever so slightly from beneath the beatiful red sauce just a wee bit more, I think we'd all agree that you are very close to pizza nirvana.

Kudos!!!

John K :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1742 on: April 05, 2013, 12:09:36 AM »
Another article about Pizza entrepreneurs dishing up Detroit-style pizzas.

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2043279

There is a close-up photo of a square slice displayed by Shawn Randazzo at the top of the article.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1743 on: April 05, 2013, 12:17:03 AM »
Another

Brown Dogís Detroit-Style Pizza Takes the Gold in Vegas.

http://watchnewspapers.com/view/full_story/22154527/article-Brown-Dog%E2%80%99s-Detroit-Style-Pizza-Takes-the-Gold-in-Vegas?instance=search_results 

It looks like Jeff did use a blend of cheeses, including Wisconsin white cheddar on his award winning Detroit style pizza.

Norma
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 12:20:24 AM by norma427 »
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Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1744 on: April 06, 2013, 12:58:01 AM »
Norma,

You might want to start your own certification program and organization. You can call it AVPD, or Associazone Verace Pizza Detroita. Or maybe Vera Pizza Detroita Michigana. Those names will command big fees.

BTW, Buddy's apparently would not be able to be certified by Shawn because they use conveyor ovens, not the required deck ovens. I would imagine that Buddy's is very disappointed.

Peter

Who wants to "convey" the news to Buddy's?

Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1745 on: April 06, 2013, 01:00:25 AM »
Norma,

Those LOOK delicious, but I gotta ask:

Are those delicious looking pies certified authentic DS pies?? :-D :-D :-D

Keep making those cheesy dream pillows!

John K

They've got the Norma Seal of Approval.

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1746 on: April 06, 2013, 07:41:24 AM »
Who wants to "convey" the news to Buddy's?

Gene,

Do you really think really Buddy's cares?   :-D

They've got the Norma Seal of Approval.

Not all of my Detroit style of pizzas bake exactly like I want them to.  You can see the hole on top of the one pizza I posted.  I am still learning about Detroit-style of pizzas too.

Norma
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1747 on: April 06, 2013, 10:16:17 AM »
If your style (with butter, cinnamon and sugar) of Detroit pizza sell at market do you have a name you want me to call them? 

How about the "What's not to love pizza" or the "Snickerdoodle pizza?"
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Offline gschwim

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1748 on: April 06, 2013, 10:45:56 AM »
Gene,

Do you really think really Buddy's cares?   :-D

Not all of my Detroit style of pizzas bake exactly like I want them to.  You can see the hole on top of the one pizza I posted.  I am still learning about Detroit-style of pizzas too.

Norma

Norma,

I'm guessing that you just had an air pocket that filled with steam and expanded when you baked the pie.  One sees the same thing in the crusts of NY pizzas from time to time.  Sometimes the bubbles will expand in from the rim and displace some of the cheese and sauce.

As for the "Detroit Style Certification":  kudos to Shawn (or whomever) for coming up with a clever (and if it works, lucrative) way to make a buck, but he should just offer classes.  The Keste folks offer a course in Italian-style wood fired pizza making in NJ that costs even more than $3,000 (I don't remember the exact number.

And he can offer certification for his personal method, but a certification in the "Detroit style" seems a bit of a conceit.  Not that it's a bad idea, but a committee of recognized experts in the style - Shawn, plus, say, folks from Buddy's, Shield's, Cloverleaf, etc., should get together, discuss, decide, vote, and agree on a common Detroit style.  In which case, I suspect that Buddy's would not go along with the requirement that the pies be baked in a deck oven.

And isn't interesting - amazing coincidence, I'm sure - that a guy who is a major, if not the major, source of the blue steel pans is making using these pans a requirement for the certification?

In my opinion, the style should be defined by the pie itself, not how it is baked:  Light, airy crust, crispy bottom, cheese out to the sides and caramelized, pepperoni under the cheese, sauce on top (and the sauce can be put on at any stage in the process, since different, equally authentic bakers do it different ways.

And as the VPN specifications for "true" Neopolitan pizza do, the specifications must contain at least one very specific recipe, to include all ingredients, the exact proportions and the entire process from mixing the dough to baking the pie, including baking temperature.  There must be specifications for the sauce, too, and there needs to be agreement on the cheese.  And only a certain amount of variation, if any, should be allowed.  So maybe a committee would be better, if Shawn want to keep his recipe secret, but his recipe, and everyone else's as well, need to be reasonably close to the published specifications or they, themselves, cannot be "certified."

And which, I suspect, could make a true certification regime impossible.  The recipe for VPN Italian pizza is a common recipe, hundreds of years old, and pretty much public knowledge.  But the DS style guys seem to want to keep their recipes - dough, sauce and cheese - proprietary.

So, probably the best one can do is, "baked in a pan, cheese out to the sides and caramelized."  If one wants to pay $3,000 for that, fine.  But I think it would be much better for Shawn to offer certification in the "Shawn Randazzo method."  And for $3,000, it better be the precise recipe and method that he uses himself - that's what I would expect for $3,000.

Gene

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1749 on: April 06, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »
And he can offer certification for his personal method, but a certification in the "Detroit style" seems a bit of a conceit.  Not that it's a bad idea, but a committee of recognized experts in the style - Shawn, plus, say, folks from Buddy's, Shield's, Cloverleaf, etc., should get together, discuss, decide, vote, and agree on a common Detroit style.  In which case, I suspect that Buddy's would not go along with the requirement that the pies be baked in a deck oven.

Gene,

Actually, the certification document reads as follows regarding the ovens:

Deck Oven Baking: Authentic Detroit Style Pizza must be baked in a deck oven or other approved oven.

If conveyor ovens would be approved, then the two types of ovens would cover pretty much the entire range of ovens in use. Maybe the remaining oven types would be wood- or coal-fired or gas-assisted ovens. I am not sure that commercial owners of such ovens would want to run them at the lower temperatures used for the Detroit style pizza.

Peter


Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1750 on: April 06, 2013, 01:19:46 PM »
How about the "What's not to love pizza" or the "Snickerdoodle pizza?"

Craig,

Your ideas of what to call your kind of Detroit style pizza are creative!  ;D

Norma
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1751 on: April 06, 2013, 01:29:15 PM »
Quote
In my opinion, the style should be defined by the pie itself, not how it is baked:  Light, airy crust, crispy bottom, cheese out to the sides and caramelized, pepperoni under the cheese, sauce on top (and the sauce can be put on at any stage in the process, since different, equally authentic bakers do it different ways.

I couldn't disagree more.  The biggest issue with VPN in my opinion is that they did not create an oven requirement.  It is one thing for an oven to create one pizza that meets certification, and another thing for it to do it all day every day in a commercial environment.  This is exactly why we have so much subpar VPN pizza cooked in subpar ovens in this country.  For that reason and a few others I personally consider VPN a worthless gimmick that in no way guarantees quality.
-Jeff

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1752 on: April 06, 2013, 01:29:51 PM »
Gene,

You are probably right that the air pocket filled with steam and expanded when I baked that pizza.

I really donít think anyone needs to be certified if they understand enough about making a Detroit style of pizza.  Even on Shawnís site for certification there is a fairly wide range of hydrations to use. 

I agree that Shawn does have a corner on the market right now for blue steel pans. 

I havenít found that when I use my round steel thicker pan that I get the same crispy bottom, but maybe I didnít do something right in that pan. 

Norma
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1753 on: April 06, 2013, 01:37:53 PM »
The pans are readily available in Metro Detroit and dirt cheap at that.  If this trend continues to grow others will jump on the bandwagon quickly and begin supplying that pans online as well. 
-Jeff

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1754 on: April 06, 2013, 02:03:28 PM »
I couldn't disagree more.  The biggest issue with VPN in my opinion is that they did not create an oven requirement.  It is one thing for an oven to create one pizza that meets certification, and another thing for it to do it all day every day in a commercial environment.  This is exactly why we have so much subpar VPN pizza cooked in subpar ovens in this country.  For that reason and a few others I personally consider VPN a worthless gimmick that in no way guarantees quality.

Jeff, I think you are confusing what is a product specification for a quality guarantee. I donít believe the VPN even attempts to define what is quality let alone the range of acceptable quality let alone actually guarantee a product is in the acceptable range.

You may be right that a tighter spec around the oven would translate into overall higher quality, but I donít think you can extrapolate that to any given pizzeria. It is certainly possible to produce bad pizza from a great oven. Likewise one can make great NP in a less than ideal WFO (or coal, electric, etc.  oven).

Quality assurance of any type would involve sampling and is well beyond the scope of the VPN.

I tend to agree with Norma in the quote you cited.  I donít see how the type of oven employed is germane to the Detroit style. It certainly is not of the importance that it is with respect to NP.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1755 on: April 06, 2013, 02:06:54 PM »
The pans are readily available in Metro Detroit and dirt cheap at that.  If this trend continues to grow others will jump on the bandwagon quickly and begin supplying that pans online as well.

Jeff,

I didnít know the steel pans are readily available in Metro Detroit and are also dirt cheap.  I hope someone else in Metro Detroit does start selling the steel pans online.   

Norma
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1756 on: April 06, 2013, 02:30:42 PM »
Jeff,

I didnít know the steel pans are readily available in Metro Detroit and are also dirt cheap.  I hope someone else in Metro Detroit does start selling the steel pans online.   

Norma


What is wrong with these? It's not like it's hard to turn them black.

http://www.bucket-outlet.com/Cold-Rolled-Steel-Utility-Dripping-Pans.htm
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1757 on: April 06, 2013, 03:23:51 PM »
If those aren't dover pans they are an exact replica.
-Jeff

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1758 on: April 06, 2013, 03:32:09 PM »
If those aren't dover pans they are an exact replica.
Really...there is no "cornered market" on those pans man..... ::)

And Bob stands ready to eat his sombrero if there is ever a taker for that "certification" nonsense.... :-\

« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 03:34:38 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #1759 on: April 06, 2013, 03:40:07 PM »
Jeff,

I'm pretty sure that one of our members confirmed that the pans in question were from Dover. However, last August a member informed me via PM that he had sent an email to Bucket Outlet in which he referenced the A30402 and A30403 pans and in which he asked if the oxide coating was safe, whether it would leach into food, whether it would wash off, whether using a knife with the pan would liberate the coating and attach itself to food, and if the coating was stable at a bake temperature of 550 degrees F.

The reply from Bucket Outlet was as follows:

Not recommended for cooking and are not food safe.

I am pretty certain that the pans were the same ones everyone was using at the time.

Peter


 

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