Author Topic: Outer crust rim won't brown?  (Read 934 times)

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Offline eaton3122

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Outer crust rim won't brown?
« on: February 12, 2014, 12:04:32 PM »
Hey guys, I've been browsing around on the forums here admiring all these delicious pizzas, and have recently started trying my hand at making some.  One of the problems I'm having is getting the outer rim of the crust to brown.  It's also a little heavier and not as light and airy as I'm expecting.  Maybe those two issues are related, I'm not sure.  For example, I recently tried the Papa John's clone recipe that is posted on this site.  I used the KABF as stated in the recipe.  I was thinking I was on the right track this time because the dough opened up very well and I was easily able to stretch it to 14".  I cooked it on a pizza screen at 500 degrees for around 7 minutes in a home oven.  The bottom browned nicely, and the undercrust had a good texture and flavor.  However, as you can see in the picture, the outer rim hardly browned at all.  I didn't want to cook any longer for fear of burning the cheese.  The outer rim also did not rise much at all during baking, and it was a little thick and heavy when eating it.  Any suggestions on what I'm doing wrong?  Thanks!


Online Tscarborough

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2014, 12:29:55 PM »
If the taste was fine (not the texture) and you just want it more brown for appearance, brush the edge with oil before cooking.  If you want to alter you dough, then sugar and a longer ferment will assist with the browning.

Offline eaton3122

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2014, 02:28:22 PM »
Thanks for the info.  I may try brushing with oil and see what happens.  I will probably try out some other dough recipes too, since like I said, I thought the rim was a little too heavy and doughy if that makes sense.  I would like to find one that was a little lighter and probably even crispier.  Thanks!

Offline Pastaking

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2014, 02:57:49 PM »
hey.. did you preheat your oven for at least 45 minutes to an hour? are you cooking on a stone? top middle or bottom rack? can your oven go up to 550? what was your dough hydration level? from looking at the picture... it doesnt look like the cheese is fully melted, are you using a pre-shredded cheese?

Offline eaton3122

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 03:19:22 PM »
No, I did not pre-heat my oven that long.  It only pre-heated for about 10 minutes.  I cooked it on a pizza screen on the bottom rack.  Yes, I believe my oven will go to 550.  My dough hydration level was roughly 55-58%.  I used the Papa John's clone recipe that Pete-zza posted to this forum.  And, yes, I used pre-shredded cheese.  I tried to find diced cheese as called for in the recipe, but I was unsuccessful so I had to go with the pre-shredded.  I'll take all the suggestions I can get as I'm trying to learn as much as possible.

Offline dmckean44

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 03:24:26 PM »
10 minutes isn't anywhere near long enough to get a 550 oven temp.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 03:26:20 PM by dmckean44 »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 07:57:50 PM »
eaton3122,

Can you tell me which Papa John's clone dough recipe you used?

Peter

Offline eaton3122

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 09:08:52 AM »
eaton3122,

Can you tell me which Papa John's clone dough recipe you used?

Peter

Yes, I used the one that you posted back on June 8, 2008.



Flour (100%):                               354.44 g  |  12.5 oz | 0.78 lbs
Water (56.5%):                             200.26 g  |  7.06 oz | 0.44 lbs
IDY (0.14%):                                 0.5 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.16 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):                                 6.2 g | 0.22 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.11 tsp | 0.37 tbsp
Vegetable (Soybean) Oil (7.3%):      25.87 g | 0.91 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.7 tsp | 1.9 tbsp
Sugar (4.8%):                                 17.01 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.27 tsp | 1.42 tbsp
Total (170.49%):                             604.28 g | 21.31 oz | 1.33 lbs | TF = N/A

Note: Dough ball weight = 21 oz. (for a 14" pizza); a nominal thickness factor of 0.136419; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2014, 10:25:44 AM »
Chris,

The Papa John's clone dough formulation you used is the one set forth at Reply 2 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg58197#msg58197. Of all the PJ clone dough formulations that I have come up with, that is the hardest one to pull off in a home setting, mostly because it produces a dough that can last from about 5-8 days in the refrigerator, which can be a challenge in a home setting where temperatures cannot be controlled to the same degree as at Papa John's, starting from the commissary and all the way to the PJ stores. As a simpler version--which also happens to be one of the most popular versions based on member feedback--you might try the version given at Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.20. A more recent and revised version that you might also consider is the one at Reply 585 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg273667#msg273667.

As for the top crust coloration problem you mentioned, what I have found useful to get increased top crust coloration in a standard home electric oven is to lift the pizza off of the screen toward the end of the bake and move the pizza to a higher oven rack position. It might remain there for less than a minute, but just eyeballing the pizza until the top crust develops the degree of top crust coloration you want should do the trick. If you are concerned that the cheese may get too dark, you can try cooling the cheese in the refrigerator before applying it to the pizza.

Peter


Offline eaton3122

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2014, 02:41:13 PM »
Peter, thanks so much for the information!  I will definitely give the other dough recipes a try and see what happens.  The good thing is, even when they don't turn out perfectly, they're still good to eat!  Haha!  Thanks again!  I'll try to post some updates with my results from my next attempts.


Offline Kale dog

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 02:56:25 PM »
Definitely preheat your oven loooooooonger  ::)
*Sigh*

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 06:50:13 PM »
Definitely preheat your oven loooooooonger  ::)
Kale dog,

Since eaton3122 is not using a pizza screen and no pizza stone, he only needs to get the oven to the desired bake temperature. For my standard home electric oven, that is about 15 minutes.

Peter

Offline dmckean44

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2014, 06:54:24 PM »
I always learned you need to let your oven fully preheat (at least 30 minutes) or the simple act of opening your oven can drop the temp 100 degrees.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 08:25:14 PM »
if you have a convection setting try it, you'll probably like it a lot

jon
Save A Cow, Eat A Vegan....Totally Organic And Hormone Free!!

Online JD

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 07:41:30 AM »
Sounds like the dough was simply under-fermented. Did it double in size before you used it?
Josh

Offline eaton3122

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Re: Outer crust rim won't brown?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 02:53:05 PM »
Thanks to everyone for the replies and help!  I've got a new Kitchenaid mixer arriving tomorrow, so I look forward to trying the tips that everyone suggested!


 

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