Author Topic: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.  (Read 3904 times)

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Offline Ev

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2012, 06:14:55 PM »
Why?  There's no way the soapstone will give you better baking qualities than the steel.  I think you can probably dial in the steel temps/convection/broiling timing a tiny bit, but, other than some slight tweaks, I think those are pretty much perfect- for the thicker crusted American NY hybrids that you prefer  ;D

Why not? Don't you use a soapstone set-up at home? Since I already have the stone(Norma's) I figure it can't hurt to play with it a little. I still want to try my crazy idea of the two together. Two pies at a time. I also want to try some different flours with the two surfaces.
 
 BTW, What about these pies suggest that they're hybrid rather than N.Y.? I generally make a 16 inch pizza. These were 14, just for the sake of experimentation. TF .08

Oh, and thanks John and Luis! ;D  It is Luis, right? ::)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 06:16:56 PM by Ev »


Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2012, 06:48:47 PM »
Steve,

Great looking pies on your steel plate.  :)

Norma
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Offline Ev

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2012, 07:54:28 PM »
Thanks Norma! ;D

Online scott123

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2012, 08:17:15 PM »
Why not? Don't you use a soapstone set-up at home? Since I already have the stone(Norma's) I figure it can't hurt to play with it a little. I still want to try my crazy idea of the two together. Two pies at a time. I also want to try some different flours with the two surfaces.
 
 BTW, What about these pies suggest that they're hybrid rather than N.Y.? I generally make a 16 inch pizza. These were 14, just for the sake of experimentation. TF .08

Was this really .08? I think, with the spring you're getting from the steel, you could afford to go even thinner, because, right now, it looks a little beefy for NY.  At the same time, it could also be the camera angle.

Soapstone doesn't have the conductivity of steel.  It also, being a natural stone, can fluctuate in it's baking properties.  I happen to know that you and Norma ended up with less conductive soapstone that really couldn't outperform cordierite all that much. The soapstone will most likely fall somewhere between your regular stone and steel, but why compromise when steel is giving you the bake time you want?

Like I said before, unless you're doing more than 10 pies in one sitting, you really don't need two stones.  If you do work with steel and soapstone, even with a long convection pre-heat, if you can't get the soapstone any higher than 525, expect some pretty pale undercrusts in 4 minutes.

Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2012, 09:14:12 PM »

I happen to know that you and Norma ended up with less conductive soapstone that really couldn't outperform cordierite all that much.



How do you know that Steve and I ended up with was less conductive soapstone?  I can give Steve my bigger soapstone to try.  Do you have a picture of your soapstone to compare to what mine two soapstones look like.  I would like to see why your soapstone is different than mine. 

Norma
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Online scott123

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2012, 09:31:22 PM »
Norma, I specifically recall that, when you worked with soapstone, you were getting bake times that weren't much better than your normal cordierite stone.  It was a highly disappointing experience, both for you, as the person making the pizza and expecting superior results, and for me, being the one that recommended soapstone. I remember you posting photos of your stones, and the stones looking right, but the baking properties weren't up to snuff. Your experiences, along with Dave's (Tampa) were the turning point for me in my decision to stop recommending soapstone, because the composition could vary too much from stone to stone, giving the buyer no guarantee of good conductivity.

Even if your soapstone is exactly the same as mine, it wouldn't have the conductivity of steel. My oven runs 25 degrees hotter, so I'm able to pre-heat it to 525 and end up with a 550 degree stone that gives me 4 minute bakes.  At 525, though, it would be pretty anemic.

Offline Ev

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2012, 11:21:32 PM »
I don't know. The one bake I did with the SS, I baked 3 pies pretty much like I would on my Cord. and got excessive char on the bottoms by the time the tops were done. I didn't use the broiler at all, but if I did, I'm sure the SS would have yielded a better result. I never tried it again because I was happy with the cord. in my old oven. No turning or fussing with the broiler. Ah, the good ol' days! :-D

BTW, yes, that's .08 at 62%, 1.75 salt, 1% sugar and 1.5% oil. I guess camera angle and extra cheese makes it look thicker. I'll try .075 at some point though, along with a weaker flour.
Thanks, Scott.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2012, 12:17:16 AM »
Scott..you don't bake your home pizza's on steel plate?
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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2012, 09:03:25 AM »
Norma, I specifically recall that, when you worked with soapstone, you were getting bake times that weren't much better than your normal cordierite stone.  It was a highly disappointing experience, both for you, as the person making the pizza and expecting superior results, and for me, being the one that recommended soapstone. I remember you posting photos of your stones, and the stones looking right, but the baking properties weren't up to snuff. Your experiences, along with Dave's (Tampa) were the turning point for me in my decision to stop recommending soapstone, because the composition could vary too much from stone to stone, giving the buyer no guarantee of good conductivity.

Even if your soapstone is exactly the same as mine, it wouldn't have the conductivity of steel. My oven runs 25 degrees hotter, so I'm able to pre-heat it to 525 and end up with a 550 degree stone that gives me 4 minute bakes.  At 525, though, it would be pretty anemic.


Scott,

Thanks for your explanation on the soapstones. 

This was the only time I tried the small soapstone in my Cadco commercial convection oven at market at Reply 18 and the following posts.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11493.msg106187.html#msg106187   Those results werenít too bad, but I donít know what I didnít try the convection oven again.

At Reply 25 and the following posts http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11700.msg108454.html#msg108454 I tried the small soapstone in my bbq set-up.  Those results were okay too.

As you might recall my home oven is very anemic in temperature, but I still tried soapstone with a combination of cordierite stone on the top rack at Reply 621 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9908.msg110444.html#msg110444

I also tried my soapstone at Reply 142 and the following posts  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11578.msg107497.html#msg107497 and although that pie sure wasnít perfect, wasnít bad either. 

I also tried the soapstone in a few other experiments.  I didnít think I got excessive char in the above experiments, but didnít think the soapstone baked any better than the cordierite. 

I really donít think in those experiments that the soapstones were highly disappointing and wish I would have had Steveís home oven to try out some more experiments.  I was the one that decided to try the soapstones and donít regret those experiments.  I would never blame you for suggesting to try soapstone.  I think the soapstone I gave to Steve to try was the inferior soapstone, but sure donít know. 

I know that the soapstones probably still wouldnít have the conductivity of steel.  If Steve wants to try out my other soapstone to try in some experiments in his home oven to compare with steel, he is more than welcome to try my other soapstone.

Norma

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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2012, 09:06:28 AM »
Steve,

Do you want me to bring what I think is my better soapstone to market tommorrow for you to try?

Norma
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Online scott123

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2012, 09:23:49 AM »
I don't know. The one bake I did with the SS, I baked 3 pies pretty much like I would on my Cord. and got excessive char on the bottoms by the time the tops were done. I didn't use the broiler at all, but if I did, I'm sure the SS would have yielded a better result. I never tried it again because I was happy with the cord. in my old oven. No turning or fussing with the broiler. Ah, the good ol' days! :-D

To be honest, Steve, I think, because Norma experimented with SS first, I think I might have paid closer attention to her results, and, by the time you experimented with it, I had completely written off. Maybe- it's all a bit fuzzy.  If you got excessive char, then that definitely indicates a greater conductivity than cord and could very well signify a parity with my stone. Like I said, though, at 525, steel beats soapstone.  Roughly speaking, cord has a conductivity of 3, soapstone 6 and steel is 43. As you can see by the numbers, steel is an entirely differently ball game. It's going to give you a little better browning that your old stone, but not the kind of browning you saw with steel.

If you want to try it, sure, go for it.  As far as I know, no one has ever tested soapstone and steel in a convection environment.  If you really want a viable two stone multi pizza setup, though, I think your greatest chance is another piece of steel.

Offline Ev

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2012, 12:44:00 PM »
Steve,

Do you want me to bring what I think is my better soapstone to market tommorrow for you to try?

Norma

Sure Norma, I'll give it a try. I have the other one in the oven heating up right now. I'll post the results shortly.

Scott, I'm pretty sure I never posted the results of my first soapstone bake at the time. I don't think I got any photos either.

Offline Ev

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2012, 01:33:35 PM »
Results.
 The soapstone took almost twice as long to heat to the 525 mark of yesterdays steel bake. At two minutes the bottom was still quite pale but I turned the pie just for the sake of consistency. At 4 minutes the bottom was almost where I want it but the top was not done. At about 4 1/2 I switched to broil and finished off the pie. I actually "domed" it to keep the bottom from browning further. The crust could use a little more color but the cheese was done. I'm sorry but I forgot to hit the stopwatch but I'm sure it was well over 5 minutes.

                                                           Have a nice day!  :)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2012, 02:40:58 PM »
How "artsy" of you man.  :chef:
That is a great looking pizza....nice blisters and the bottom is just right for my tastes.Thanks Ev!
And you have a nice day too.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2012, 05:50:36 PM »
Steve,

Even though the soapstone took longer to heat, that pizza sure looks good to me.  ;D What kind of flour did you use?  I like your little smiley face too! :P

I will bring the soapstone I think might be better tomorrow.  That bugger is heavy. 

Maybe if you want to, you could bring your steel plate to market and we could try it in the top deck tomorrow with one of my regular Kyrol dough balls.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2012, 09:25:19 AM »
Steve was kind enough to bring his ĹĒ steel plate for me to try out in the top of my deck oven.  My top deck runs cooler than the bottom deck, but has a lower head space than my bottom deck.  The bottom deck was about 548 degrees F.  Steve and left the steel plate on the top deck for about 4 hours before we tried to make two pizzas.  The steel plate did take a long time to get to the same temperature as the deck, but surely not the 4 hrs.  The temperature on the steel plate was 500 degrees F when the first pie was made.  The dough used is my regular Lehmann dough made with Kyrol flour.  The first pie baked in about 6 minutes, or a little longer.  The bottom crust didnít burn at all.  The second pizza tried went okay too with the steel plate, but the temperature of the steel plate then had fallen to about 438 degrees F.  I donít know why it fell so fast.  The bake time for the second pie was a little over 7 minutes.

That steel plate sure is heavy.  :-D When I lifted the ĹĒ steel plate, I can now understand why members say it is so heavy. 

Steve, what flour did you use with your formulation?

Norma 
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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2012, 09:27:08 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2012, 09:28:58 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2012, 09:31:00 AM »
Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Contemplating a Most Unusual Experiment. Folly? Perhaps.
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2012, 09:32:26 AM »
Norma
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