Author Topic: Dough type for NY style in gas oven  (Read 2146 times)

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Offline enzopizza

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Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« on: October 14, 2012, 02:33:15 PM »
Hello,

What dough type/ingredient do you recommend to get a thin 10" ny style pie baked in 5-6 min.  I plan to hopefully use an unmodded gas oven.

Vince


Offline enzopizza

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 09:20:06 AM »
Also, do you suggest a mix using caputo 00 flour?  If so, what percentage should i mix with?

Vince

Offline Giggliato

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 06:43:06 AM »
Are you going to be cooking on a stone or steel? With a screen or without? I cook about 600 of those things a week, the recipe is fairly standard with variations depending on the person doing the mixing, storage etc...

What temp do you plan on cooking at?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 07:59:30 AM »
Are you talking home or pizzeria? Unmodded gas oven would suggest home use, but just checking.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline enzopizza

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2012, 09:10:59 AM »
This is for a new pizzeria im opening up.  I havent purchased the oven yet, but im open to suggestions on what gas oven to buy to efficiently make a ny style pizza. If the best quality comes from cooking directly on the stone using a screen, i'd be prepared to try that out.  As of right now im researching on which oven to get to make the best ny pies.  Obviously the temp is important so im trying to figure out what ovens are capable of getting 600+.


Are you going to be cooking on a stone or steel? With a screen or without? I cook about 600 of those things a week, the recipe is fairly standard with variations depending on the person doing the mixing, storage etc...

What temp do you plan on cooking at?

scott123

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2012, 11:00:33 AM »
Vince, here's my current recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

It's written for a home oven, but works just as well in a commercial environment.

An oven's peak temp is important, but it's only one criteria that you need to be aware of when shopping for an oven.  BTU/Watts are important as well.  They play a role in pre-heat times, recovery and, to an extent, top browning.  Stone material is another big player.  If you end up having to swap out the stones, it's not the end of the world, but, ideally, it's nice to get the right stone at the start.  Thermodynamics are probably the most critical aspect of all.  I've mentioned Norma before.  Her oven goes to 650+, but the oven is setup in such a way that if she pushes the temp, the bottoms of the pizzas burn. Electric ovens with top/bottom thermostats resolve this, to an extent, but then you're back to the electricity vs. gas costs that we covered before.

Screens are generally to be avoided for NY style.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2012, 11:47:53 AM »
Screens are generally to be avoided for NY style.

Translation: Screens are evil. If you use a screen, don't call your pizza NY style (because it's not NY style, and because there are already way more than enough pizzerias out there calling their pizza something it's not).

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2012, 12:51:08 PM »
Actually, there are quite a few pizza operators who use screens in their deck ovens. Some of the reasons are given in Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7689.msg66284/topicseen.html#msg66284. Some of the drawbacks are given in Reply 6 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5238.msg44468/topicseen.html#msg44468. For a couple of examples, see Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2817.msg25862.html#msg25862 and the opening post and Replies 1-3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9410.msg81526.html#msg81526.

Tom discusses this topic from time to time. See, for example, his PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=1945#p1945, in relation to the other posts in the same thread.

Obviously, it is better to avoid using screens but some pizza operators do not always have the choice.

Peter

Offline enzopizza

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2012, 08:04:11 PM »
Great, so in terms of gas, what btu should i lookout for and what operating temp would you recommend I operate at? 

If your saying cook directly on the stone, is there a certain type i should get?  Sorry as i mentioned before I bought into a franchise that was already using a typical gas oven with pizzas cooked in pans ontop of a stone.  Thats why I have all these questions. Thanks a bunch guys/gals

Vince, here's my current recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20732.msg206639.html#msg206639

It's written for a home oven, but works just as well in a commercial environment.

An oven's peak temp is important, but it's only one criteria that you need to be aware of when shopping for an oven.  BTU/Watts are important as well.  They play a role in pre-heat times, recovery and, to an extent, top browning.  Stone material is another big player.  If you end up having to swap out the stones, it's not the end of the world, but, ideally, it's nice to get the right stone at the start.  Thermodynamics are probably the most critical aspect of all.  I've mentioned Norma before.  Her oven goes to 650+, but the oven is setup in such a way that if she pushes the temp, the bottoms of the pizzas burn. Electric ovens with top/bottom thermostats resolve this, to an extent, but then you're back to the electricity vs. gas costs that we covered before.

Screens are generally to be avoided for NY style.



Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 08:37:39 PM »
Pizzerias I've seen using screens are college area "grunge" types of busy shops. Different employees there each time you go. They start the too big (for unskilled workers) "puffy" rim pizza out on the screen and pull it as soon as they can. I don't really think their dough, as is, would work even if they were trained to launch a pie straight from a peel.
I do sometimes like this type of pizza they make....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


scott123

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2012, 02:04:48 PM »
Great, so in terms of gas, what btu should i lookout for and what operating temp would you recommend I operate at?

 :)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21479.msg217699.html#msg217699

The operating temp depends on the oven. For a 5-6 minute pizza, it could be anywhere from 500 to 650.

Deck ovens have the stone built in. Manufacturers all have their own type of the stone that they put in their particular ovens, but they are all pretty similar.

You have two ovens with specs that will guarantee you your desired bake time, the Marsal MB 60 and the Pizzamaster.  The Pizzamaster introduces the gas vs. electric fuel cost question- a question that should have an answer within the links I provided you. The Marsal MBs, new, are not cheap ovens and there's no guarantee of finding a used model.  If you want to purchase a used deck, there's an okay chance it will give you 6 minute bakes.  If you're hoping that a pizzeria owner on this forum (of which there are very few) will chime in and say "I use x oven and get 5 minute bakes" and then, when you go to Craigslist or Ebay, you'll find that exact oven used, it's not going to happen.  If you want to go the used route, there's nothing wrong with that but you've got to do your homework.  First thing you've got to do is gauge how many pizzas a day you'll be making, which, in turn, will give you a deck size to look for.  Once you have a deck size, then you start looking for deals. When you find a really good price on a used oven, post the specs here and we'll be able to tell you if it has the necessary specs for 5-6 minute bakes.

Offline enzopizza

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Re: Dough type for NY style in gas oven
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2012, 12:11:43 AM »
:)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21479.msg217699.html#msg217699

The operating temp depends on the oven. For a 5-6 minute pizza, it could be anywhere from 500 to 650.

Deck ovens have the stone built in. Manufacturers all have their own type of the stone that they put in their particular ovens, but they are all pretty similar.

You have two ovens with specs that will guarantee you your desired bake time, the Marsal MB 60 and the Pizzamaster.  The Pizzamaster introduces the gas vs. electric fuel cost question- a question that should have an answer within the links I provided you. The Marsal MBs, new, are not cheap ovens and there's no guarantee of finding a used model.  If you want to purchase a used deck, there's an okay chance it will give you 6 minute bakes.  If you're hoping that a pizzeria owner on this forum (of which there are very few) will chime in and say "I use x oven and get 5 minute bakes" and then, when you go to Craigslist or Ebay, you'll find that exact oven used, it's not going to happen.  If you want to go the used route, there's nothing wrong with that but you've got to do your homework.  First thing you've got to do is gauge how many pizzas a day you'll be making, which, in turn, will give you a deck size to look for.  Once you have a deck size, then you start looking for deals. When you find a really good price on a used oven, post the specs here and we'll be able to tell you if it has the necessary specs for 5-6 minute bakes.

For my 10-12" personal pies i'm looking for an electric...
I'm debating between a 2 deck pizzamaster 822 or 832 http://www.bakepartner.com/pm800/models.html
Also fthe Pizzmaster PM 352EDW http://www.bakepartner.com/CT350/models.html

There is even an auction selling a Baker's Pride deck oven...http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-community-events-Public-Restaurant-Auction-Thursday-October-25-10-30am-W0QQAdIdZ423928730

For my 16-18" pies (for delivery and by the slice) It may be logical to go for a deck gas oven especially if I get the Pizzamaster 352edw.  I'd like to find a used Blodgett or Baker's pride deck oven. I wont really need a quick cook time for deliveries/and showcase.

V