Author Topic: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution  (Read 3117 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« on: October 22, 2012, 06:02:56 PM »
Has anyone tried Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution, I am thinking of doing this on my MPO top stone to increase radiated heat.
Bert,


Offline Bugsforbob

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 13
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 12:31:14 AM »
Where did his idea come from? Is there scientific reasoning as to how this would work? Wouldn't the sugar just burn off? I' m not a scientist, but I am a bit skeptical. Enlighten me.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10623
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 09:06:48 AM »
Where did his idea come from? Is there scientific reasoning as to how this would work? Wouldn't the sugar just burn off? I' m not a scientist, but I am a bit skeptical. Enlighten me.

After the sugar burns off, it would leave carbon behind darkening the surface thus increasing the emissivity. I tend to doubt the difference would be meaningful, but I'm curious to know so I hope Bert tries it.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21188
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 09:29:31 AM »
This method was described by member November at Reply 13 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5122.msg46827.html#msg46827 but with respect to the bottom of a stone. An alternative method is discussed at Reply 59 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7066.msg169215.html#msg169215.

Peter

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 11:16:37 AM »
Dark surfaces has higher emissititvity.

In preparation for using the cordierite shelf for baking a pizza on tomorrow, I carbonized the bottom by mopping it with sugar-water and heating it in the oven at 600F for about an hour.  This is to darken it for more rapid radiant heat absorption.  I will likely sugar-heat treat it a few more times before all is said and done.  I will only treat the shelf this way on the bottom, as I want the top to remain as reflective as possible to benefit the rim of the crust not in direct contact with the shelf.  Attached is an image of the contrast resulting from the first treatment.

- red.november

November did it for more rapid radiant heat absorption. In my case, I am wondering if it will increase stone radiated heat. I will try it and see if it makes any difference. I may not be able to do it till next weekend.

Any recommendation on how to test? I can heat two stones,  one is sugar coated ( ;)) ... the simplest way is to feel the heat by placing my hand couple inches away from the stones. If I can't feel the difference, than there is no significant difference.
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10623
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 11:22:42 AM »
Any recommendation on how to test? I can heat two stones,  one is sugar coated ( ;)) ... the simplest way is to feel the heat by placing my hand couple inches away from the stones. If I can't feel the difference, than there is no significant difference.

That or just do a practical test and see if you notice any difference. You've baked enough pies in the MPO to know what to expect. If the difference is meaningful, you will see it.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 11:45:38 AM »
I will be out of town this weekend. I may be able to do the feel test sooner than a bake test.
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10623
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 12:43:49 PM »
I will be out of town this weekend. I may be able to do the feel test sooner than a bake test.

I'd be curious to see if an IR thermometer registers a dark stone differently than a light stone at the same temperature.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 01:25:54 PM »
I'd be curious to see if an IR thermometer registers a dark stone differently than a light stone at the same temperature.

It does, I noticed it when I measure stained spot vs clean area right next to the stained spot.
Bert,

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 10623
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2012, 01:30:37 PM »
It does, I noticed it when I measure stained spot vs clean area right next to the stained spot.


Dark was hotter?
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.


Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2012, 02:24:59 PM »
Dark was hotter?


Yes, don't remember the difference. The true temperature is the clean area temperature. see http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/14134/emissivity-underst-difference-between-apparent,-actual-ir-temps

http://www.thermoworks.com/emissivity_table.html (carbon has .95 emissivity)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 03:17:53 PM by MightyPizzaOven »
Bert,

Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6339
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2012, 03:38:45 PM »
Anything that burns on and darkens a stone, be it sugar water or seasoning, will improve emissivity.  But... a decent grill setup, with good airflow across the top stone, should reach 650 easily, and I don't see much surviving 650 for too long.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2012, 05:24:13 PM »
and I don't see much surviving 650 for too long.
Scott, do you mean the sugar will eventually burn off at that temperature or at that temperature the emissivity will be high anyway?
Bert,

Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6339
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2012, 05:27:55 PM »
Bert, I expect the sugar to burn off at that temp.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2012, 05:40:46 PM »
Scott, I was thinking to coat one side of the stone with the sugar solution  while baking it at low temperature on the grill. Sugar made mostly of C, H and O, I am expecting majority of the C will be trapped. The other option is to coat the stone with high emissivity coating. Sugar solution is much much cheaper (if it works)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 05:47:12 PM by MightyPizzaOven »
Bert,

Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1625
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2012, 09:48:55 AM »
Bert, I expect the sugar to burn off at that temp.

Yeah, I've found that temperatures around 600 (in the grill) easily turn well-seasoned pans into shiny, like-new pans. So if seasoning vaporizes at 600, I'd totally expect sugar to vaporize, too.

Offline pizzaneer

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1477
  • Location: Nirvana
  • Pizza and zen more pizza
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2012, 09:57:40 AM »
Yeah, I've found that temperatures around 600 (in the grill) easily turn well-seasoned pans into shiny, like-new pans. So if seasoning vaporizes at 600, I'd totally expect sugar to vaporize, too.

Thats interesting.  Well-seasoned what? Aluminum? Steel? Seasoned with oil, lard, general drippage?

I use my cast iron skillets and pans in the LBE for various things, usually running around 750 - never noticed the seasoning burning off.  If anything, it's made them darker.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline MightyPizzaOven

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Mighty Pizza Oven
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2012, 10:53:09 AM »
It is worth trying, unfortunately, I won't be able to do it this week.


Ryan, by the way I am hooked on my scale. I used mostly to measure my flour and dough. My dough ball sizes became more consistent.
Bert,

Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1625
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2012, 11:01:19 AM »
Thats interesting.  Well-seasoned what? Aluminum? Steel? Seasoned with oil, lard, general drippage?

I use my cast iron skillets and pans in the LBE for various things, usually running around 750 - never noticed the seasoning burning off.  If anything, it's made them darker.

Aluminum. And if cutter pans are aluminum (which I think they are), then more aluminum. Seasoned with canola oil, as far as I remember.

Since I don't use cast iron for anything, which means I know essentially nothing about cast iron, I have a question: How can you tell that the seasoning never burns off? I mean, it's black either way, right? And since cast iron is black when it's new, what is the purpose of seasoning it? (These are legitimate questions. I've been curious about this stuff for a long time, but I don't trust the rest of the internet to give me valid answers.)

Also, and this may be the difference-maker: I've never actually been baking anything at 600(ish) when I've vaporized the seasoning on my pans. Rather, the first time it ever happened, I think I was actually trying to season a perforated aluminum pan. I had the burners on high, just to get the grill up to temperature quickly, but I got distracted and accidentally left the burners on high for a while. (Half an hour or an hour; I'm not sure. Like I said, I was distracted, which means I forgot all about it.)

So it's not like I was using the pans how pans would normally be used.

When you use cast iron in your LBE, the pan surely has something in it (like food), which means it should take considerably (or infinitely) longer for the pan to reach the temperatures my empty pans reached when I vaporized the seasoning. But, of course, you probably finish using the pan long before the pan ever has any chance of reaching those kinds of temperatures.

I'm making sense, right?

Even though my first experience with vaporizing the seasoning off of a pan was an accident, I've actually done it on purpose a few times since then; mostly to bring pans back to like-new condition so I could re-season them correctly after Peter helped me better understand why we even bother seasoning pizza pans. (But I think I probably did it by accident at least one other time.)

Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1625
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: Coating Pizza Stone with sugar water solution
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2012, 11:04:19 AM »
Ryan, by the way I am hooked on my scale. I used mostly to measure my flour and dough. My dough ball sizes became more consistent.

Awesome! I was actually thinking about asking you earlier today if you were using it, since I think you had indicated that you already had one a couple months ago when I was nagging you about bakers' percents.